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Spoiled by Glass EFIS in RV-12

NinerBikes

Well Known Member
Ground school lessons on XC today... a bit overwhelming, all the minute calculations. Fuel consumption, climb out fuel consumption, ground speed made good while climbing out, wind directions, headings where you're blown off course, dead reckoning... I've seriously been ruined by SkyVector for all my flight planning.

Mentally... all those terms and boxes... I think I'm going to fail this with the DPE. Computers and software are wonderful, along with glass EFIS in E-LSA lightening the work load. Guess you need to know how to do it when the computer goes on the fritz.

The actual XC in the Rv-12, with the map screen covered by a Post It, using just the rosette was rather easy, at this point.

I really enjoy how this plane flies. Yes, I had a big smile today, after a long day in and out of the plane, landings at 5 airports, with 3 of them all time new airports to me.
 
Randy,

I still remember all the “fun” I had with an E6B in the 80’s when I got my PPL. Those skills seem a bit superfluous in the days of the “magenta line”, but there is a certain satisfaction of having an FMS between my ears when something fails.

Reminds me of my submarine days when I got so bored on watch that we would calculate the reactor power behavior and control rod movement to adjust reactor coolant temperature as opposed to just “bumping rods” until we got what we needed. The fundamentals provide the basis of true understanding as opposed to a monkey-see-monkey-do approach to operation.

Rich
 
Randy,

I still remember all the “fun” I had with an E6B in the 80’s when I got my PPL. Those skills seem a bit superfluous in the days of the “magenta line”, but there is a certain satisfaction of having an FMS between my ears when something fails.

Reminds me of my submarine days when I got so bored on watch that we would calculate the reactor power behavior and control rod movement to adjust reactor coolant temperature as opposed to just “bumping rods” until we got what we needed. The fundamentals provide the basis of true understanding as opposed to a monkey-see-monkey-do approach to operation.


Rich


I understand how the E6B works.... it's a slide rule of sorts, with logarithmic scales to do the calculating.

What I don't understand is all the darn short hand for all the boxes you need to fill out on the flight planning form. I'll call them "variables" that affect fuel consumption, time traveled climbing, time traveled in cruise, and time traveled descending. Then there's the fluidity of air mass, wind direction, heading or velocity made good. Throw in True North or magnetic North, depending on where you are at, and how much variance between them.

All of this stuff, I've struggled with, all my life, despite everyone telling me I'd make a great mechanical or electrical engineer. Math formula's with Greek or Latin alphabet letters make my head spin.

I understand dead reckoning... and having done cost accounting in an earlier life, I very much understand Estimated versus Actual times to get a product to Finished Goods status and ready to be removed from Finished Goods Inventory to Cost of Good Sold. This is all about time management and energy management, don't run out of fuel.

Just need to learn all the short hand terms, to fill out the forms. Takes me back to.... uhm ...either a Texas Instruments calculator, or a Reverse Polish Notation (logic) for scientists and engineers HP model pocket calculator, in High School. I was never a child of the slide rule with it's scales, to do all the calculating. Perhaps a little too young.

I bought a LSA because it's supposed to reduce the workload for the pilot. I'll get through this... but it's going to take some time and a lot of homework, before my pea sized brain "see's the light."

I've got absolutely a great flight instructor now... this stuff now comes so easily to him... 25, flying jets, Embraer 175 commercials, until Covid-19 changed his career and took his job from him, company now belly up. Me? Gotta figure out how to get 'er done.
 
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Don't overthink it.

Pilotage is about being "pretty damned close." This is VFR flying with incomplete-to-inaccurate weather forecasting. Once you've got a basic course sorted out and corrected for mag variation, everything else is just about re-figuring when you find out you're a couple miles off course or a couple minutes ahead or behind.
 
Don't overthink it.

Pilotage is about being "pretty damned close." This is VFR flying with incomplete-to-inaccurate weather forecasting. Once you've got a basic course sorted out and corrected for mag variation, everything else is just about re-figuring when you find out you're a couple miles off course or a couple minutes ahead or behind.

I get that... and currently, I have pretty much an iron clad standard... don't leave my airport for a flight with less than 12 gallons, if it's an hour or less flight, otherwise topped off, and if I'm going to do a long trip, the Rotax is so consistent with burn rate, I use 5 gals /hr at 5200-5300, estimate and it almost always comes in at 4.6 -4.8 gallons per hour actual. 2.5 hours is my maximum TIME in the air... period, want to leave at least 7.5 gallons buffer, just in case.

Feeling good enough now about my landings, that i think I'll put the main wheel pants back on and gain back an extra 3 kts. Footwork keeps getting better and smoother.

Once you get the knack of it, for landings, this plane is an absolute joy to take flying, so nimble.
 
To my knowledge, one of the first forms of using electrons over wire for communication for transportation was Morse Code. Maybe before that, smoke signals.

Today, most of us use wireless handsets, with bluetooth connections, over the air, to cell phone towers.

While I am a ham operator, how many of you know Morse code, still? Or ever learned it? What about a party line for your phone at home?

So many devices have made our world both so much easier to live in, when the product works, and so miserable, when they don't.

I have redundancy in my RV-12, that was finished in 2012. Garmin Aera 500 and a Dynon D1, both as back up, in case the Skyview fails. I feel like the good Boy Scout, be prepared. Will probably also get a iPad mini and Foreflight app
 
Randy,

If you are frustrated by the flight plan format as a new pilot think about the dinosaurs like me that were used to calling flight service, talking to a real person and filing. I have finally got the variables correct in my flight app (WING-X) and saved my aircraft profile on flight service. Now all I have to do is call them up to file. God help me if my profiles ever get lost!😜

Rich
 
Well, I quit overthinking it, they shouldn't call that doggone thing a computer, it's nothing but a slide rule calculator.

Of course, my brand new maps are all done up in Pencil lines now. and it's pure Convoluted mess with all the ink colors on that map, going from OXR via SZP to BFL, not to mention mountains, Wilderness, California Condor Sanctuaries etc., to divert around

Only one darn short cut N NE up Piru Lake, Piru creek then on to and north, up Interstate 5 and Lake Pyramid, almost everything else is canyons and highways in the valleys of them to fly in.

6500 ft altitude to clear some 5500 ft mountain ranges, and probably start descending 7 or 8 miles north of Grapevine at 500 fpm.

It's very easy if I visualize my direction and wind speed, and add the dot in for the windspeed first, above 100 on the spinning dial. Then move my true airspeed, with the slide rule portion so the radius meets the dot. Then read the bullseye, and thats my ground speed. Looking straight up is my heading then, and drawing a line from my dot to the bullseye is the wind direction and velocity.

The push from the wind helps visualize the correction needed to help stay on course.
 
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To keep things in perspective, I need to sit down at a FBO, and create a flight log... which requires sitting down at the computer desk there, and getting on line, on the computer to get winds aloft and direction, from the NOAA website, here: https://www.aviationweather.gov/windtemp/data?level=low&fcst=06&region=sfo&layout=on&date=


Then I get to manually do all the calculations... Takes me forever to do so.


Or, I can get on SkyVector, and create a flight plan just by dragging a magenta line around to the way points I want, and then save them, all while on a Sectional Map that I can enlarge or shrink as I wish, when on the World VFR map setting.

If you're going to sit down at a computer for one winds aloft estimate for your calculations... sheesh, you're already there, may as well use skyvector, get headings that are corrected, and Kt's to be traveled on a heading.

Next question... If you're in a RV-12 and making 112 to 115 KTs at 5000 ft AGL, how often should you be verifying the time for visual check points to be sure you are on track? I use airports and some land marks or lakes or items like farms or refineries, or solar panel farms as time markers to make sure I'm on course, and on time. Every 15 minutes and 28 to 35 miles, if you're familiar with the area? What about if you are flying over roads like highways?
 
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If you are going to carry an E6B (either an actual whiz wheel or an app) here is why you should learn to do it the old way first, then play with the cool stuff later.

You go on SkyVector and let it create your plan. You start out in your magic electronic cockpit along your plan only to find that the winds aloft are not anywhere near what was forecast (that never happens :rolleyes:) Now that you are in the air and don't have connectivity, how are you going to recalculate everything? Humor me and assume the magic cockpit won't continually recalculate. Also, your certificate means you can fly any aircraft that fits within your authorizations. Not all of them will have the magic. What if somebody asked you to ferry their RV-12 that had no magic glass?

Now, realistically what you would do is a combination of pilotage and the old way but you just didn't think about it that way.
You would look out the window and compare what you see with what is on your chart or map display and navigate by reference to landmarks.
With your E6B or even a straight up calculator you can figure your groundspeed (assume for a minute you don't have a glass cockpit). With that info you can calculate time to destination. With time to destination you can calculate fuel required. Then it is simply a matter of watching your progress.
It isn't much different than driving a long trip. You pass a sign that says it is 150 miles to your destination city. What's the first thing that rolls through your mind? Thats a bit over 2 hours left to go. You start watching it and recalculating every time you pass a distance remaining sign.

As for how many/how often to have check points. As many as it takes to keep you on course without causing you to be heads down in the cockpit the entire flight. You want to be heads up looking for traffic, monitoring your ground track and the airplane as much as possible. That is a real problem I see with people who have fancy glass airplanes. They tend to spend way too much time inside.

On your check ride you will most likely head out as if you were conducting a cross country flight. The examiner wants to see you start out on the trip and will then break it off to do the air work and possibly divert you to another airport. Pro tip, have a couple easy to spot landmarks pretty close to your departure airport as your earliest checkpoints so they can check that box quickly. You don't want it on the down wind but you also don't want to drone on for 75 miles to get to your first check point.
 
Just thinking out loud;

You are at 5000' and the winds aloft have changed from the forecast you got before taking off. The Dynon is using wind information it is "feeling" in real time (it does not need an internet connection to do this). Your ETE is being updated in real time because the Dynon is a computer and tied into all of your airplane's systems, airspeed, fuel flow, heading, fuel remaining, distance to destination, etc. All this is happening while your eyes are outside watching for traffic. With a quick glance to your panel you will know if you have enough fuel to make your destination, and alternatives are a single button press away.

OR

You could spread out the chart and your E6B and calculate with wind information (that is an hour old), headings, and airports, look up frequencies, manually transfer them to the radio without error, do I need to go on?

While we are discussing "what if" scenarios, how many know their light signals in case the radio fails?
 
Just thinking out loud;

You are at 5000' and the winds aloft have changed from the forecast you got before taking off. The Dynon is using wind information it is "feeling" in real time (it does not need an internet connection to do this). Your ETE is being updated in real time because the Dynon is a computer and tied into all of your airplane's systems, airspeed, fuel flow, heading, fuel remaining, distance to destination, etc. All this is happening while your eyes are outside watching for traffic. With a quick glance to your panel you will know if you have enough fuel to make your destination, and alternatives are a single button press away.

OR

You could spread out the chart and your E6B and calculate with wind information (that is an hour old), headings, and airports, look up frequencies, manually transfer them to the radio without error, do I need to go on?

While we are discussing "what if" scenarios, how many know their light signals in case the radio fails?

I would hope that you see a green / white light signal.. and not anything red, either solid or blinking.
 
I am sadly very intimidated by Ground School! I was never a good student yet I will make it happen for sure! I am going to go the Angle of Attack route. Good luck!
 
I am sadly very intimidated by Ground School! I was never a good student yet I will make it happen for sure! I am going to go the Angle of Attack route. Good luck!

If you get an RV-12 and plan to learn to fly in your own plane, the CFI I am using now is very good... he's already commercial and not looking to pad the hours of instruction. He could work with you out of KCMA, KOXR or KSZP... you'd just need to get your plane down there.

In my experience... a full 2 hour lesson works out much better that shorter lessons.You spend way too much time flying to and from the practice areas, so get to the practice areas and put in the time learning, once there.

Get your taxi, radio, markings and power on and power off stalls out of the way, first.
 
??? All CFI’s hold a commercial or higher certificate - it’s a requirement.

25 yrs old and 3000+ hours logged, some of it commercial jet airlines, is what I was referencing, Bob with "commercial"... not these kids with CFI's, trying to build hours to get a gig with an airline company.
 
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