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Bad customer experience calling Van's help line?

Palamedes

Palamedes

Well Known Member
I recently called Van's for some help and I feel I had a bad customer experience.. Frankly, I feel like I was treated rudely and (for the lack of a better word) punished for calling for help.

As if my question was beneath the individual who had answered the phone, was a stupid question and that I should just "figure it out because we aren't going to hold your hand".

I realize that these guys do this all day long so it's simple for them, but as a first time builder I kinda feel like the help line is there to help me.. not make me feel like I shouldn't call because I'm a big dummy for not knowing something that's obvious to them.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Now I feel like I can't call Van's for help. Honestly, this really put me off Van's as it was a terrible customer experience.. :(



EDIT: Just a quick edit to talk to the point of this thread;


I'm concerned for the longevity of Van's more than anything else. The number of people here that seem to imply that Van's can do no wrong and that I'm thin skinned for bringing this up is concerning..

This is about helping Van's better their process because .. and I can't emphasize this enough .. I WANT THEM TO STICK AROUND A LONG LONG TIME..

Admittedly I have a selfish reason for this; I'm now invested in them.. heavily if you consider the costs involved.

But also as a small business owner, I recognize how important customers are, how hard they are to keep, and how if ONE complains, there is a good chance there are 10 more who feel the same way and didn't say anything. (And the PM's I have gotten prove that point)

This isn't about being thin skinned. This is about trying to correct something for the good of all.
 
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Few times I have had to call them for question or advise, I got a pretty polite and straight forward answer. In fact, I always appreciated it their approach as they made me feel I am talking to another builder as oppose to an office worker with much formality but less of substance.
 
I called and talked to builders support about 10 mins ago with no issues. i can think of a few times that I called and the person helping me made me feel like a bit of an idiot... But hey first time builder so I didn't take offense to it.

As a side note reaching out to local EAA tech advisors is just as valuable as calling Vans. What you learn is there are different opionions on certain things, for example Vans builder support told me not to bother with sound insulation, while an EAA tech advisor said its a must....
 
Try asking your questions on the forums first. Real answers from hundreds of informed builders. Sorry to hear of a negative experience from the mother ship. We have only had positive feedback when we asked questions. Be sure to contribute to Vansairforce.net.
 
This topic has come up before, and I think in general the consensus seems to be that rude service certainly isn't acceptable - however, there are two points to remember. First, everybody is human and has off days (not an excuse, just a fact). Second, tech support is staffed by engineering types. Being one, I can tell you that we are notoriously NOT the most socially adept beings. My wife reminds me all the time that things that I may state as a matter of fact actually come off as insensitive. The up-side, though, is that you are talking to a knowledgeable person, rather than a cheery-voiced but inept phone minion at some huge company's tech-help line.

I have found that almost every screw-up I was able to make (a lot) had been made before, and addressed here or elsewhere on line. The few times I have needed tech support, they have been very responsive and helpful. I have used email exclusively, as I prefer it. They may, as well, as you can include pictures or annotated plans, etc. Sometimes their emails are short and to the point, but as long as the substance is there, I don't worry too much about style points.

Vans could easily add a phone-bank full of tech-helpers, who would be less knowledgeable but more friendly - but the cost of the kits would reflect that, and they'd probably still need to run most real issues past the engineers anyways.

Best of luck

Chris
 
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It's your airplane and they have the information, call back or ask for another person. Politely of course.

Funny, I asked about repeat questions when on a tour and they said it is just normal and they answer them, even reading from the manual sometimes.

Maybe you caught someone on a bad day. Surprising for a low key bunch, but it happens.

Give them a chance to redeem themselves.
 
You're all saying exactly what I have been saying to myself. I have to assume this was just a "bad day" moment for someone or as someone above said, someone being blunt and to the point "engineer style" without really meaning to be rude.

It was just really off-putting like I said because now I feel like I'm a dummy for calling and that I shouldn't call / expect help from them (Which I am sure is the opposite of their intent or desire).

Either way, I'll be recording my calls to Van's going forward.. [ed. I'd gingerly suggest you visit this first. b,d]
 
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Here is some psychology help, if I might.
Aircraft have thin skins...
People have thin skins but need thicker skins. We are already pretty heavy, so we should not be so concerned about thicker skins.
The people who answer are not concerned about being our friend. They actually probably don't get any different paycheck if you call or don't call.
They might be what we see as curt or blunt or whatever. It is your job to get the data.... and leave the "feelings" for the "whatever" category.
The old expression, "benefit of the doubt" seems to have fallen out of favor these days. It really still has a lot of value. We can extend it to the people on the phone.... and they can extend it to us. MAYBE. But, in the end, if you get to the answer... that is what you can take as an actionable item. The rest is just feelings. Take the dog for a run. It feels better after, as I know first hand.
I am think skinned too. Hey, fly safe.
 
Palamedes said:
Either way, I'll be recording my calls to Van's going forward..
Click to expand...

Your have that right (maybe, considering DR's link stuff)----------but you do know a lot of folks who work at Vans read these forums----(which is most likely why you posted your complaint here in the first place)-----but step back from your own perception, and think of how a statement like this comes across to those Vans employees.
 
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Great experience

I called yesterday, had great experience. In fact, the gentleman even went out to the floor to make some measurements that were not in the preview plans I was looking for.

I understand how you feel, but I would say give them another chance before getting too down on them.

I have just bought the preview plans, and they treated me well. Seems like from what I read that your experience isn't the norm... At least let's hope that's the case moving forward.


Happy building....
 
Human

Vans folks have bad days like everyone else but as a whole they are a class act. Customer service is tough and I for one just simply can't do it. I've heard stories over the years, some posted here, about subpar customer service but that's not the norm. They gave me a hard time for wanting to put a big motor on a -9 till they found out that this wasn't my first rodeo (my 4th RV). Looking back I agree they did what they are supposed to do.

The VAF forum is a great resource and maybe ask your question here first. Or better yet, Google search the site with your question. There is a pretty good chance that VAF may have answered the question over the past 11 years or so. If it's a dumb question, well, you may find that nobody will say it's dumb......except for....... Nevermind. 😄
Good luck building and don't be shy about asking questions!
 
I have never called them, but have read nothing but good service from Vans. Don't sweat it. Keep pounding those rivets. The process is a rollercoaster ride. Enjoy the ride!
 
Customer Service

I agree with most of the responses. They (usually Ken and Sterling) are always helpful often going above and beyond.
I also understand Customer Service very well having spent a career managing a very large Telecom. I made it a point to make sure my personal contact information was available to everyone. I always asked staff to smile when they answer a phone because it's almost impossible to sound terse when you smile. That included me and I never allowed a beligerent customer to hang up till I had them satisfied and happy. I never left the office till every voice mail and e-mail had been answered. My favorite advise was Mary Angelou's famous quote, " I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."
 
YellowJacket RV9 said:
Second, tech support is staffed by engineering types. Being one, I can tell you that we are notoriously NOT the most socially adept beings. My wife reminds me all the time that things that I may state as a matter of fact actually come off as insensitive. The up-side, though, is that you are talking to a knowledgeable person, rather than a cheery-voiced but inept phone minion at some huge company's tech-help line.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth.

I do customer support for airplanes albeit in a little different market than Van's. Although we don't usually deal directly with the customer ourselves (we're more like the 2nd and 3rd line support), we occasionally find ourselves emailing or talking to them directly (it's not what I'd call a fun experience, most of the time).

Anyway, it could be any number of things that make them sound irritable or rude. It's possible they're irritated by what is (to them) a really simple question, or one they answer on a weekly basis. But it's also possible that that's just how they sound on the phone, or they just had a fight with their spouse that morning, or they just haven't had their coffee yet. And as Chris points out, we engineers are not known for our social graces.

That's why engineers hire people like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcIMIyQnOso

(How do you know an engineer's an extravert? He looks at your shoes when he's talking!)
 
I haven't had to call for help yet. I've had a few questions that I ended up emailing and attaching some pictures. I've gotten answers back very quickly, even outside of their telephone support hours.

That's worked for me, thus far.
 
I got to the point that when I called support, if Ken answered, I'd hang up and try again. He's sometimes helpful and sometimes very much like you experienced. The others I have always had good experiences with.
 
Like mentioned several times above, I would ask or search here, first, some on here can be a little rough around the edges, but the talent here is like no where else I have seen. So what was the question? I bet someone else has asked it before, or I have also seen others too afraid and respond to you saying, hey, I was wondering about that also.
 
RV8JD said:
To what end?
Click to expand...

So I can share the experience with Van's because clearly this isn't what they want.

Mike S said:
but step back from your own perception, and think of how a statement like this comes across to those Vans employees.
Click to expand...

I expect it to come across exactly as I intended it.

This is a company that I'm spending tens of thousands of dollars with. They need to realize that bad customer experience goes a long way in the wrong direction.

I'm very pro-Van's but this was not a good experience and based on the number of private messages I have gotten, it's far from a unique one.

They offer a help line where new builders can call and get answers. That implies to me that the intent is that they want to be helpful. Great! Thanks!

Instead, I and now apparently others, have had an experience that's contrary to that mission statement. One in which we are now questioning if we should bother calling because of the response we have gotten; unprofessional, rude, making us feel stupid..etc...

Even if my question was a stupid one (which it wasn't, but that's not really germane to the point) you don't treat your customers like they are beneath you or like you don't have time for them..

That's only hurting their business..

And if it were my business, and any one of customers said "When I call, if I get 'so-and-so' I hang up and call back".. I'd want to know that! That's a sign of a problem.

Sure, again.. like you (and I) have said; maybe it's a bad day thing. Maybe the coffee machine was broken.. that'd make me upset.. But to what Larry said; People don't forget how you make them feel. And if you make enough customers feel like ****, your bottom like will show it.
 
Get over it...

I've been one of those that have called the help line for a stupid question and as expected, I got what I deserved. A very matter a fact response that didn't mince words and make me feel loved.

If I wanted the feeling good love **** type of response, i would call my cable subscriber and tell them i was cancelling. It's amazing how much they kiss your butt!

I didnt search this site for the information I needed. Search here first...dont call Van's unless you mess a part up and are looking for a CYA response to work you believe is flawed.

Dont take it personally....but start recording conversations and becoming "one of those guys" you get what you deserve......

Move on and ask your questions here first.....

Dont you love posting in such a forum..not only do you get everyone else's opinion, you get it from all over the continent!!!

Good luck!
 
Some thoughts

Jason, hope that this helps. First off, I suggest that you find someone who has built any of the RV aircraft. I found a man who has completed an RV-8 and who is willing to help me build my RV-12 kit.

Even though the building of a 12 is far easier than your 10, my helper has made it easier and faster than if I was going it alone. As I had no aircraft building experience prior to the 12 start-up. I have had a few questions about how/when to do this and that process. When I mention to my mentor that the plans and illustrations could be made a lot more clear, he tells me that the 12 plans are far better than the 8 plans. So I share your frustration with the instructions.

I have found that if I have a problem understanding a process or instruction, that if I look ahead - or back a few pages, I'll find the answer. I look here in the VAF for help - as others have mentioned, this a very talented and experienced group. Another source of information is the many construction posts by builders of other RV-10s which are on the internet.

My primary recommendation though is to find someone who can help you when needed. By the way, your in-line posts of your build look great. I have no doubt that you are building a high quality RV-10. Keep pounding those rivets - best to you.:cool:
 
Local help

I would be surprised if you have an EAA technical councilor where you live but I am not that far away in Conyers. I am a repeat repeat offender and am flying a 10. I would be happy to attempt to answer your questions

Gary Specketer
770 four oh three 3450
Gspecketer @ hotmail
 
Don Patrick said:
I've been one of those that have called the help line for a stupid question and as expected, I got what I deserved. A very matter a fact response that didn't mince words and make me feel loved.

If I wanted the feeling good love **** type of response, i would call my cable subscriber and tell them i was cancelling. It's amazing how much they kiss your butt!

I didnt search this site for the information I needed. Search here first...dont call Van's unless you mess a part up and are looking for a CYA response to work you believe is flawed.

Dont take it personally....but start recording conversations and becoming "one of those guys" you get what you deserve......

Move on and ask your questions here first.....

Dont you love posting in such a forum..not only do you get everyone else's opinion, you get it from all over the continent!!!

Good luck!
Click to expand...

It amazes me how many people are defending crappy customer service.

We spend tens of thousands of dollars with this company. I don't think having some one treat you with respect when you call is asking too much.

There are many ways to nicely tell someone to RTFM, and the simple fact is these planes are complicated.

I know I called a couple times with what I'm sure they thought was a dumb question. I had spent significant time trying to figure out something, find a dimension, etc. Maybe I'm not as smart as most of you, but I don't always see or comprehend everything in Vans plans and instructions. I thought that was why they offered support hours....

-Dan
 
Palamedes said:
So I can share the experience with Van's because clearly this isn't what they want.



I expect it to come across exactly as I intended it.

This is a company that I'm spending tens of thousands of dollars with. They need to realize that bad customer experience goes a long way in the wrong direction.

I'm very pro-Van's but this was not a good experience and based on the number of private messages I have gotten, it's far from a unique one.

They offer a help line where new builders can call and get answers. That implies to me that the intent is that they want to be helpful. Great! Thanks!

Instead, I and now apparently others, have had an experience that's contrary to that mission statement. One in which we are now questioning if we should bother calling because of the response we have gotten; unprofessional, rude, making us feel stupid..etc...

Even if my question was a stupid one (which it wasn't, but that's not really germane to the point) you don't treat your customers like they are beneath you or like you don't have time for them..

That's only hurting their business..

And if it were my business, and any one of customers said "When I call, if I get 'so-and-so' I hang up and call back".. I'd want to know that! That's a sign of a problem.

Sure, again.. like you (and I) have said; maybe it's a bad day thing. Maybe the coffee machine was broken.. that'd make me upset.. But to what Larry said; People don't forget how you make them feel. And if you make enough customers feel like ****, your bottom like will show it.
Click to expand...

I'll add a little to this, based upon my experience. I have spent over half my career selling software solutions to large customer service operations. My perspective is that Van's has a decent and acceptable Support operation. Yes, it could be more accessible, a bit cheerier, etc. However, there is a balance here. I'll leave out cost and deal with knowledge. I can think of many service organizations I call that have VERY friendly and courteous staff. The problem is that usually their knowledge is two inches deep and it takes me a lot of time and effort to pry out what I need if I can get it at all. Staffing a center with both broad & deep knowledge AND world class customer service skills is much harder than you would imagine and is not cheap.

I would agree that Ken is a bit of an "acquired taste," but in the end, I have been able to get good information each time that I have needed it. Maybe I had to "work" the conversation around an issue, but I always believed he was well intentioned and he has a lot of knowledge to draw upon. I will accept this compromise every time over the alternative I mentioned above.

On the issue of cost, I can tell you that many of the great experiences you have had cost those companies a LOT of money to put in place. While Van's kits are 5 figures, they are still a relatively small business and this area haunts many small businesses.

I give Van's an A- rating in this area. The strength of their following shows not only a quality product, but a support network that is working. Granted, much of the latter falls to this community, but Van's is doing their part and keeping costs in line.

Larry
 
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In my nearly six years of building - and probably a 12 to 15 calls to the Builders' Helpline - only once did I think the responses were a little curt. All other times I marveled at both the knowledge and patience of the guys on the other end of the line. Every time I called I thought about their typical day .... Getting questions that ranged from totally legitimate to pretty darn stupid. (And as I got further into the build, I realized some of my early questions were the latter. :eek:.) In virtually any perspective I put on customer service helplines, Vans sits at the top of the heap. There were uncountable times I patted myself on the back for choosing a Vans kit plane, rather than the five or six other (less costly) planes I pondered in the decision process .... Based primarily on the focused help I could get with a simple phone call.
They will always get in "A" in my grade book. :)
 
Help line

Interesting that folks are private messaging some responses. Perhaps the forum is unreceptive to questioning any thing about Van's.
 
[ed. I'd gingerly suggest you visit this first. b,d]

One of the clauses there says that the prohibitions do not apply to people performing the interception in their own home...
 
I'm not sure this really adds much, but one of the thoughts I had while building was to be sure and document everything.

So, with questions to Van's, I developed the process of including the email and response with the build log / information. I found this to be a pretty good system and that the email responses came quickly. (I doubt that I actually telephoned more than twice in the entire build.) By the end of the build, there was a pretty good stack of emails that was just one more indicator to the DAR (for the inspection) and the FAA (seeking the Repairman certificate) that I was indeed the builder.

It's what I would definitely recommend.

Dan
 
OP - Have you ever watched any of Van's early bio/marketing videos? I am guessing not. He constantly emphasizes the fact that he's all about no-frills, minimal expense for maximum performance. So, with that said, you are getting exactly what he advertises when you get the no frills phone service. It's what I figured out about the first time I viewed their marketing material and made my first empennage purchase.

I've been calling and ordering stuff since 1997. Never had a rude call. Have had plenty short and sweet calls. But they've always helped me out. Always.

If you want plush customer service, try Lancair or CubCrafters. I bet they offer very plush, sweet (expensive) customer service. And plush, sweet customer service absolutely costs money.
 
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Questions

I think Van's should be very grateful that VAF exists here. If DR had not created this wonderful resource Van's would need many more advisers to answer all the questions that come up here and are usually answered before one has to call the Mother Ship. On that note, maybe Van's should be the largest contributor to this site in terms of monetary support. Let's say $100 from each kit sold to support VAF from Van's. Right now they are getting all this support as a freebie and is saving them thousands of hours of employee time.

When I started building 15 yrs ago a mere mention of getting advice from the internet would draw ridicule from the Van's folk at any local gathering like the monthly sessions we had then.

Now, many consider VAF the primary source of info and call Van's only out of dire necessity, I am one of those.
 
Low Pass said:
And plush, sweet customer service absolutely costs money.
Click to expand...

That's really not the case. Aligning with customer's expectations of customer service is one of the easiest things to fix in an organization. Skill sets and experience costs money, not the ability of someone to be courteous and professional.
 
What purpose?

Moderaters, I question what purpose this thread serves?

One person says he did not have a touchy feely response from someone at Vans. None of us witnessed the conversation so cannot make a judgement about what and how things were dealt with. Some people have very thin skins and want everything coated in chocolate, others would prefer a direct answer even if it is curt.

The person on the other end of the phone call is not able to give his/her version of events, and in any event this is not something we should judge purely on the feeling of one individual.

In over 20 years of dealing with Vans I have never had a bad experience. This forum has a vast knowledge base and members are more than willing to help. On odd occasions a member is advised to contact Vans for a definitive answer.
 
AviatorJ said:
That's really not the case. Aligning with customer's expectations of customer service is one of the easiest things to fix in an organization. Skill sets and experience costs money, not the ability of someone to be courteous and professional.
Click to expand...

It depends how you define "courteous and professional". People have wide ranges of expectations for what constitutes good customer service attitudes.

Look at some other service positions, like restaurant waiters, hotel or cruise ship staff, etc. I've been at restaurants with friends and family where they were complaining about the staff not being attentive and friendly enough, whereas my wife and I are sitting there quite pleased with the service we got. Or the opposite case of cruise ships and all-inclusive resorts where the rest of the people we went with loved being waited on hand and foot, and it just really creeped me out. Then there's the medical professions. I like a dentist who is upfront and shares the "technical" stuff with me; other people I know want to not think about it and just get plugged into their headphones and TV.

Going back to my experience on the other side of the fence, we have a whole wide range of customers with different expectations. Some need their hands held with even the simplest procedures, others are quite savvy and just need engineering concurrence for their proposals. Some want a bubbly person in a suit to tell them everything's going to be OK, others want a couple grizzled old mechanics and a "hands on" engineer telling them what's wrong with the airplane and how to fix it.

Point is, what to one person is a brief, professional response is downright rude to another person.
 
I'll take my shot at this. I am forever grateful for the quality of my 10 kit plans and parts. This process has been rewarding from several angles. Almost invariably the service during a call to Van's has been as expected or better. However, early on (building since April 2013) I often dreaded the possibility that Ken would answer tech support. That fear has evaporated for some time now either because of feedback to him, I became a more savvy builder or I realized better ways to frame my question. I fully subscribe to the thought that service drives business and recognize episodic failures will occur. I believe every time I have talked with Ken or others the information was well worth the effort. I do not believe the overall consistency of their product, collective service and innovation has been demonstrated by another kit manufacturer.
 
I figured Van's to be a manufacturer and not a retailer. We are lucky to be able to buy direct. Most manufacturers have very little support. They usually rely on wholesalers and retailers to handle that.
So my expectations were not very high when I called the once that I did call.
 
Here's a crazy idea that will probably draw some flames, but...

What if Vans (or an approved 3rd party) handled tech help as a fee-based or subscription service? Now, before you remind me how much you paid for that kit and that you deserve free help, remember that what you pay doesn't matter - what matters is the margin, and Van's is pretty small.

So, let's say you could subscribe to Van's tech help service for $200 a year. You get access to their knowledge, and because they are charging you money, you can demand, and I'm sure will receive, a professional and courteous experience.

The other benefit here is that only the users of the service pay the cost of it - my inner economist likes that. Let's say I'm on my third kit and have no need for tech help. Why should I pay extra on my kit to subsidize somebody who doesn't know a wing from a tail and needs constant hand-holding? Obviously I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

There is the possibility that the extra cost may deter some people who need help from seeking it, but if the cost was reasonable, I think most conscientious builders would gladly pay it if needed.

Now, I don't see Vans ever doing this, if for nothing other than PR reasons, but it does seem to make sense economically.

Chris
 
So, you are suggesting that Vans start charging us for a service that is currently provided for free, and that most of us are already happy with, as a "cure" for the reportedly poor service received by a few?

No thanks.
 
dweyant said:
It amazes me how many people are defending crappy customer service. We spend tens of thousands of dollars with this company.
Click to expand...

This. I'm more concerned for the longevity of the company than anything else, but the number of "fan boys" on this forum that seem to imply that Van's can do no wrong and that I'm thin skinned for bringing this up is concerning..

This is about helping Van's better their process because .. and I can't emphasize this enough .. I WANT THEM TO STICK AROUND A LONG LONG TIME..

Admittedly I have a selfish reason for this; I'm now invested in them.. heavily if you consider the costs involved.

But also as a small business owner, I recognize how important customers are, how hard they are to keep, and how if ONE complains, there is a good chance there are 10 more who feel the same way and didn't say anything. (And the PM's I have gotten prove that point)

This isn't about being thin skinned. This is about trying to correct something for the good of all.

RV9A Bill said:
Interesting that folks are private messaging some responses. Perhaps the forum is unreceptive to questioning any thing about Van's.
Click to expand...

Yeah, See above. The "fan boy" aspect is not good guys. Van's (and you) need to be able to take criticism. And just because you haven't had that experience doesn't mean others haven't. Accusing someone about being thin skinned or expecting a touchy feely response or that I expect things to be coated in chocolate is just a dumb thing to say as it implies that you think its impossible for them to have done anything wrong and clearly it's all on me.

Again, this isn't about complaining to complain.. this is about the betterment of the process and the company as a whole. If I had this experience, and others have too [see this thread and my pms] then there is an issue that could potentially affect the longevity of the company.. That's bad.

The purpose of this thread is to HELP THEM not to complain for the sake of complaining..

dspender said:
I do not believe the overall consistency of their product, collective service and innovation has been demonstrated by another kit manufacturer.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. But if we can help them make it even better; that's a good thing right?

YellowJacket RV9 said:
Here's a crazy idea that will probably draw some flames, but...

What if Vans (or an approved 3rd party) handled tech help as a fee-based or subscription service?
Click to expand...

This isn't a terrible idea. It would help Van's bring in another monetization vertical and would make it so that the support side of the house isn't a drain but rather pays for itself.

One issue with support for most companies is just that; Support and Warranty stuff is just a drain. Usually a red line in the books. Giving a way to get a subscription version of support is a good idea as it will help them pay for support.
 
What was your question?

Ok, I'll ask. What was the question that you needed answered?

Or is this thread only about your experience with a customer service rep at Vans?
 
It had to do with the tanks on the RV-10, specifically around the T-1005-L tank attach bracket.

I feel that I have enough information to continue and that I could solve this problem a number of ways which goes to the "we aren't going to hold your hand" comment made by the person I talked to. I just wanted to get a gut check to see if what I was doing was correct as I felt the docs weren't complete.

It seems like the Empennage docs set the precedent of explaining every aspect to the n-th degree of how to assemble things, where as the wings kit gets less technical and even omits things in some cases in the hope that you have figured it out.

Which is fine, but I feel if I call to get help (the whole point of the help line) then I should get help.. not be made to feel stupid for asking a question =)

Mostly though, this thread was about how to help vans and make them aware of the issue.
 
dweyant said:
It amazes me how many people are defending crappy customer service.
Click to expand...

^^^This.

Over and over in their promotional materials, Van's says their kits are routinely completed by people with no prior experience with tools or plans. If they're going to market to those people and promise support, they need to provide the support implied in their marketing. And their telling me about VAF doesn't count as good customer support.

I'd gladly pay a subscription for support. Starting such a thing would cause a PR kerfuffle. Maybe they could start by saying the present hours are available for free, with extended hours available to subscribers. Maybe offer a discount or "first year free" for those who complete a Sport Air Workshop.
 
Jason,

You seem very genuine in your responses. I hope Vans does not take this the wrong way and sees this thread as a way to improve their already great company. Jason, I look forward to your video with details on your answer to your question. I'm far from the fuel tanks ( don't have tools yet) but it would be great to look back at your videos when I do get to the tanks. As always, Jason, thanks for sharing. Knowledge is power.
 
StuBob said:
I'd gladly pay a subscription for support.
Click to expand...
Charging people to call support would deter some individuals from calling, possibly increasing their risk on the build. That would not be PR friendly position for Vans.

Also I can't think of a good reason to ever tell a customer "we aren't going to hold your hand".
 
erich weaver said:
So, you are suggesting that Vans start charging us for a service that is currently provided for free, and that most of us are already happy with, as a "cure" for the reportedly poor service received by a few?

No thanks.
Click to expand...

But that "service" isn't "free", unless those guys are volunteering their time on the phone. We just pay for it as a part of our kits. If you're on your 3rd RV and have no need for support, why would you want to pay for it anyways?

What I'm suggesting is simply giving the customer choices. Maybe you aren't price-sensitive enough to care, but if I could save $1000 over the course of a build by not paying for a service that I don't use, I would take that deal in a heartbeat.

On my first build, I'd gladly have paid for it at least for year 1, on subsequent builds, I'd prefer the option of not paying for it.

Maybe they could even offer "1st year free".

Anyways, it won't happen, it's just a thought exercise...

Chris
 
YellowJacket RV9 said:
But that "service" isn't "free", unless those guys are volunteering their time on the phone. We just pay for it as a part of our kits.
Click to expand...

Yeah I have to agree here.. I think this is a value add that certain people would be happy to pay for and more over would give Van's a possible (if minor) cash injection via a completely different vertical.

They'd have to define what that means, but it's something that some folks would be interested in I'm sure..
 
This is very much resembling the support model I,m used to seeing in IT at least. you purchase a piece of (enterprise) hardware/software, and you get a usually fairly robust support service with it, sometimes included, sometimes not, and you pay subscription fees on a yearly basis to get access to said support.

For those companies that do it well enough at least, it's a gold mine in terms of revenue AND service quality. I would never invest in IT infrastructure that does NOT offer such a service.

Having such a service in this context would certainly be novel, but could potentially certainly provided some interesting added value ... knowing that not only you can call, but you'll have access to people for whom service is their priority, have access to a wealth of information (internal service history, knowledge base, etc.) as well as the engineers themselves, won't rest until everyone is satisfied their query was satisfactorily answered, etc. has some great value IMO.

That being said, Van's does get a "free ride" thanks to VAF, where for 25$ (or more!) you get a pretty decent source of information ... in effect, a third-party support provider. OK here's an idea for DR then: leverage the forums by adding a layer of professional paid support! (Also something that's seen in the software business, notably on the open source side).
 
Are there no Supervisors to talk to about this at Van's?

I know when I get treated in a way that I don't appreciate by someone I'm doing business with, I ask to speak to that person's boss to discuss the matter.

I may have missed it...did that happen here?

If a Supervisor was contacted, what did they say about the matter?

If not contacted, why was that not done first?

I can see posting a negative public review, but only after I've tried to handle the matter privately first and not gotten appropriate action.

Rob S.
 
my experience

I have called Vans and most days get great answers to what i think are difficult questions. I bought a kit to assemble not design, that i leave to the real homebuilder R. Vans himself. So i ask question, some days i am sure they have heard that question 10 times.

I did have trouble with parts section and when i said "hey do you think..... and then explained my take of their response.." they filled me in on their side of the equation. I understood and got what i need and a better understanding of their first response.

So yes i bet we have all called on the "off day" but I think to straight out ask them .... are you having a bad day or is this a stupid question? you will likely get a surprised response and an answer to the effect that they didnt mean it that way and move on to solving your problem.

This place is the best and i go to Vans after reading this first!
 
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