Van's Air Force
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Oil Filters
- Thread starter JGT
- Start date
BillL
Well Known Member
I have certainly considered alternative oil filters, but . . . In your example, one will save $.32/hr by using the alternate filter, and $640 to TBO. If it is a better filter in all respects then it is good, but filters, particularly automotive are made to the lowest cost possible. This means that if it degrades the TBO by just 50 hours, then the full $640 is gone. (Assuming a $25k overhaul cost)
If we want to begin a test program for filters and continually monitor the subject filters to ensure they meet specifications, then we could choose the lower cost filter. That would take a particle counter and test bench to measure no only filtration efficiency, but debris capacity, burst test, and relief settings.
An alternative to bench testing is a detailed tracking of oil cleanliness for a the prospective filter. Each 10 hours, including a clean oil sample. 150 hrs of testing should suffice to build confidence, at least in the filtration effectiveness.
The more I understand about filters, debris and wear, the less likely an alternative filter looks attractive. But that is just me.
Edit: I might add that some alternatives might just test better than the tempest, as there are not that many companies that make filter paper. So it is possible an automotive filter canister is as good or better, but finding it is the trick.
If we want to begin a test program for filters and continually monitor the subject filters to ensure they meet specifications, then we could choose the lower cost filter. That would take a particle counter and test bench to measure no only filtration efficiency, but debris capacity, burst test, and relief settings.
An alternative to bench testing is a detailed tracking of oil cleanliness for a the prospective filter. Each 10 hours, including a clean oil sample. 150 hrs of testing should suffice to build confidence, at least in the filtration effectiveness.
The more I understand about filters, debris and wear, the less likely an alternative filter looks attractive. But that is just me.
Edit: I might add that some alternatives might just test better than the tempest, as there are not that many companies that make filter paper. So it is possible an automotive filter canister is as good or better, but finding it is the trick.
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flyboy1963
Well Known Member
GOOD question!
I have not installed a spin-on due to the space issue, so a shorter filter has my full attention!!!!
...but the specs seem to say BOTH are 4 3/8" tall. what's up?
...and does the NAPA really have all the internal bypass stuff, in all the right places, to allow oil flow in the (rare) case of the filter media collapsing, or some other failure?
users, smart folks, and engineers please speak up!
I have not installed a spin-on due to the space issue, so a shorter filter has my full attention!!!!
...but the specs seem to say BOTH are 4 3/8" tall. what's up?
...and does the NAPA really have all the internal bypass stuff, in all the right places, to allow oil flow in the (rare) case of the filter media collapsing, or some other failure?
users, smart folks, and engineers please speak up!
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David-aviator
Well Known Member
jetjok
Well Known Member
Have you considered the Airwolf remote filter? I have one on my Pacer where space is an issue, and it works out very nice. Plus, with it mounted vertically, it is much easier to avoid the usual mess!
Most people who use a filter without a safety wire tab simply install a worm-gear clamp around the filter and safety wire to that.
Mark Albery
Well Known Member
I have the Casper Labs adapter and HP-1002 filter combo as in this post - http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=44258
It has a wire locking tab. Less filter area, but has worked well for me. Worth considering, especially where space is tight.
It has a wire locking tab. Less filter area, but has worked well for me. Worth considering, especially where space is tight.
FasGlas
Well Known Member
The K&N has the safety wire hole and will fit in a tighter area. I've been using them for 10 years and they work great.
The only way I can use a Champion or Tempest is to saw off the wrench boss and squeeze the filter onto the adaptor. The K&N fits right in there with a little room left. The are racing filters so they are designed for higher pressures and have a bypass valve.
The only way I can use a Champion or Tempest is to saw off the wrench boss and squeeze the filter onto the adaptor. The K&N fits right in there with a little room left. The are racing filters so they are designed for higher pressures and have a bypass valve.
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FasGlas
Well Known Member
K&N HP-1002 but you'll have to have the male threaded end on the adaptor, or add it to you adaptor. These filters are only female.
flyboy1963
Well Known Member
how about an undersize auto filter?
some 16-year old kid at a gas station once told me there were only a handful of companies making oil filters.
turns out he was probably bang on. Seems Wix makes for Napa, and a dozen others.
So if the specs on everything are the same as an 'aircraft' filter, why can't I use one that fits the back of my engine?
this one is a nice fit at 3.4" long.....and if it can filter my 4.7 L V-8 in my Toyota Tundra, why not the little Lyc?
....sure, the filter area is 34% less etc. etc...but hey, we're replacing a 2" diameter oil screen!
oh, and it costs $2.73 cdn.
Model: 51348
Brand: Wix
Thread: 3/4-16
ADB Valve: Yes
Bypass Valve: 8-11
Efficiency:
% @ 15µ
Burst PSI:
Height:
3.404"
Diameter:
2.921"
Displacement:
22.81 in³
some 16-year old kid at a gas station once told me there were only a handful of companies making oil filters.
turns out he was probably bang on. Seems Wix makes for Napa, and a dozen others.
So if the specs on everything are the same as an 'aircraft' filter, why can't I use one that fits the back of my engine?
this one is a nice fit at 3.4" long.....and if it can filter my 4.7 L V-8 in my Toyota Tundra, why not the little Lyc?
....sure, the filter area is 34% less etc. etc...but hey, we're replacing a 2" diameter oil screen!
oh, and it costs $2.73 cdn.
Model: 51348
Brand: Wix
Thread: 3/4-16
ADB Valve: Yes
Bypass Valve: 8-11
Efficiency:
% @ 15µ
Burst PSI:
Height:
3.404"
Diameter:
2.921"
Displacement:
22.81 in³
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rv7charlie
Well Known Member
No problem; just run mo-gas.
this is much faster than twisting wire. 1068 napa or champion works for me.
what is the cost of the wix and k&n filters? been paying about $6 for the napa.
Not quite sure how this method would would prevent the filter from coming loose.
What most people do is to loop the safety wire around the head of the clamp screw and from there run the wire to a point on the engine in the proper direction just like any other safety wire.
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BillL
Well Known Member
this is much faster than twisting wire. 1068 napa or champion works for me.
what is the cost of the wix and k&n filters? been paying about $6 for the napa.
I looked up the K&N HP1002 at the beginning of this thread and found prices as low as $10/ea - - pretty good for the exact part (if) as the Champion. Retail is $14.99
Reference: http://www.amazon.com/HP-1002-Performance-Wrench-Off-Oil-Filter/dp/B000C3XDB8
rmarshall234
Well Known Member
>using an alternate oil filter such as NAPA Gold 1068 for ~ $7 in lieu of the Tempest 48-110-2 at ~ $23
Here's my take on the subject...
If you've ever had the seal blow out of an automotive type oil filter (as I have) you would probably think twice. Oil pressure immediately goes to zero and oil loss is very rapid. (I recently read about how aviation filters are built to much more stringent standards in regards to seals and other parts.)
A Safety Professional once said to me in regards to something similar...."the odds of something bad happening are very low, but the consequences are very high". Or, to paraphrase someone from another forum I frequent and to tag on to an earlier comment here...."filters are cheap, engines are expensive".
When you consider the two together - safety and economics - it's a pretty clear choice to me.
Here's my take on the subject...
If you've ever had the seal blow out of an automotive type oil filter (as I have) you would probably think twice. Oil pressure immediately goes to zero and oil loss is very rapid. (I recently read about how aviation filters are built to much more stringent standards in regards to seals and other parts.)
A Safety Professional once said to me in regards to something similar...."the odds of something bad happening are very low, but the consequences are very high". Or, to paraphrase someone from another forum I frequent and to tag on to an earlier comment here...."filters are cheap, engines are expensive".
When you consider the two together - safety and economics - it's a pretty clear choice to me.
PerfTech
Well Known Member
....Yes! This actually happened to me on a rental aircraft. I saw oil coming out of the cowl after departure and returned to the FBO. The said the aircraft had just been serviced, so they called in the mechanic and after inspection he remembered the telephone had distracted him while installing the filter and he failed to tighten or wire it. This is the only case I have even become aware of. I would not worry in the least about a properly installed filter ever coming off and don't believe they need tie wire at all. To me, the only reason to tie wire most things is to insure they will stay put, in the event that one forgets to tighten or properly install the part in question. In all our years of racing virtually everything that has an engine, we have yet to see an oil filter come loose. In fact the opposite usually occurs, as they become more stuck and difficult to remove. We have seen the non racing automotive type filters rupture with extreme pressures as an oil relief valve sticking etc. The K&N racing filters will take 300 plus PSI as we have tested them. Any properly installed and torqued to specification filter will not blow out its seal as it is captured and will easily take the 300 PSI we tested with (the case will split first). Thanks, Allan
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I didn't realize that North American used spin-on filters on the Super Sabre.
Oh, you are talking about a Ford. Sorry!
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Too funny, Mel!
I had the same reaction. I guess we are getting old.
I had the same reaction. I guess we are getting old.
I'll pass
Hey Allen, the concern I have is who makes the K&N (It's not K&N) and what happens when K&N signs a contract with different vendor? You can test them but how will you know when they switch to a Chinese company?
I pride myself on being cheap, but this just isn't a place I'll take a chance having 1, seen a filter back off and leak (boat, probably not installed correctly) and 2, having one blow the seal on the freeway (N14 Cummins).
Tim Andres
....Yes! This actually happened to me on a rental aircraft. I saw oil coming out of the cowl after departure and returned to the FBO. The said the aircraft had just been serviced, so they called in the mechanic and after inspection he remembered the telephone had distracted him while installing the filter and he failed to tighten or wire it. This is the only case I have even become aware of. I would not worry in the least about a properly installed filter ever coming off and don't believe they need tie wire at all. To me, the only reason to tie wire most things is to insure they will stay put, in the event that one forgets to tighten or properly install the part in question. In all our years of racing virtually everything that has an engine, we have yet to see an oil filter come loose. In fact the opposite usually occurs, as they become more stuck and difficult to remove. We have seen the non racing automotive type filters rupture with extreme pressures as an oil relief valve sticking etc. The K&N racing filters will take 300 plus PSI as we have tested them. Any properly installed and torqued to specification filter will not blow out its seal as it is captured and will easily take the 300 PSI we tested with (the case will split first). Thanks, Allan
Hey Allen, the concern I have is who makes the K&N (It's not K&N) and what happens when K&N signs a contract with different vendor? You can test them but how will you know when they switch to a Chinese company?
I pride myself on being cheap, but this just isn't a place I'll take a chance having 1, seen a filter back off and leak (boat, probably not installed correctly) and 2, having one blow the seal on the freeway (N14 Cummins).
Tim Andres
