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Help with NUMATX

BryanG

Member
I bought a new NUMATX squeezer for my RV-10 build. I set everything up and began practicing. It squeezes 3/32 rivets great at about 60PSI on the compressor, but when I try to squeeze 1/8th rivets I can crank the compressor as high as it will go at 120PSI and they are still slightly under squeezed. I have checked all the fittings for leaks, double checked that it was full of hydraulic fluid and bled to eliminate air from the line. Everything checks out fine, the only thing I could find wrong is I hear a faint air hissing noise coming from inside the foot pedal (not the fittings).

I’ve been trying to contact the company but they haven’t been returning my calls or email. Anybody have any insight?

Thanks,
Bryan
 
My experience

Only should need about 40-42 lbs for 3/32 rivets. 80 lbs for 1/8. I was told you shouldn’t put more than 85-90 lbs into the Numatx. You may have a leak.
 
I'm interested to see what you find out, as i purchased one about a month ago and have a similar issue.

Bled it twice, and it seems to also be under squeezing the -4 rivets even with 90 psi going into it.

Out of curiosity, do you hear the leak only when you depress the pedal, or all the time?
 
I was having the same issue back in 2015. After taking with them on the phone, it turned out that the hose connected to the handle was expanding ever so slightly and not allowing the squeezer to fully squeeze. Good luck getting it all sorted out.

-Robert
 
Are you squeezing the rivets at the right part of the throw?

If this is the NUMATX Pneumatic / Hydraulic squeezer (which I think it is), there is no throw setting like there is in a conventional pneumatic squeezer. These Numatx hydraulic squeezers dont need to be shimmed or use adjustable sets to get the throw for each different length of rivet.

You just need to set the airpressure and it will squeeze any length rivet (AD4 and AD3) without needing to adjust any set travel.

having said that, are you 100% certain you bled the unit completely? Even a tiny air bubble in the hydraulic lines will cause it to underset. Likewise, what fluid did you use in the intensifier?
 
I'm interested to see what you find out, as i purchased one about a month ago and have a similar issue.

Bled it twice, and it seems to also be under squeezing the -4 rivets even with 90 psi going into it.

Out of curiosity, do you hear the leak only when you depress the pedal, or all the time?

I hear the leak without the pedal depressed. It is not all the time, but after I use it for a few rivets, if i put my ear close to the pedal I can hear it.
 
I was having the same issue back in 2015. After taking with them on the phone, it turned out that the hose connected to the handle was expanding ever so slightly and not allowing the squeezer to fully squeeze. Good luck getting it all sorted out.

-Robert

My hose is a black, looks like twisted nylon or something. It definitely expands when you depress the pedal to squeeze a rivet. I assume that is normal...
 
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If this is the NUMATX Pneumatic / Hydraulic squeezer (which I think it is), there is no throw setting like there is in a conventional pneumatic squeezer. These Numatx hydraulic squeezers dont need to be shimmed or use adjustable sets to get the throw for each different length of rivet.

You just need to set the airpressure and it will squeeze any length rivet (AD4 and AD3) without needing to adjust any set travel.

having said that, are you 100% certain you bled the unit completely? Even a tiny air bubble in the hydraulic lines will cause it to underset. Likewise, what fluid did you use in the intensifier?

I bled the unit the best i possibly could, I can't be certain there isn't a tiny air bubble though. I pumped the fluid through per the instructions about 10-15 syringes worth of fluid until there were no visible air bubbles. But it seemed like no matter how many times I ran the fluid through I would eventually introduce another tiny bubble. I may try bleeding again.

The fluid is actually one of the things I was thinking could be the issue. I used Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. The manual seemed lacking on exactly what fluid to use, it just said dexron III or equivilent fluid. The only fluids I could find that specified dexron III were transmission fluids so that is what I used.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
I too bled mine with numerous syringes, and then tried to use it with no joy on the 1/8" rivets. A second bleeding of the unit was required. Maybe using it "stirs it up" a little, and you are able to get the last of the air out on a second bleed? Who knows. As near as I can tell, it will not tolerate any amount of air in the system.

For me, I found I had to depress the syringe slightly as I was fitting it on the bleed input nipple so a bubble did not form at the end while I was pushing the tube on. Also, keep pressure on it slightly while loosening and tightening the nut otherwise an air pocket can form in the tube. It's a real juggling act.

For the leaking air problem, make sure your lines come into the fittings straight and not at an angle. On mine, some side pressure on the lines caused air to leak.

It's a really messy and frustrating process, but the tool is great once done.
 
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I too bled mine with numerous syringes, and then tried to use it with no joy on the 1/8" rivets. A second bleeding of the unit was required. Maybe using it "stirs it up" a little, and you are able to get the last of the air out on a second bleed? Who knows. As near as I can tell, it will not tolerate any amount of air in the system.

For me, I found I had to depress the syringe slightly as I was fitting it on the bleed input nipple so a bubble did not form at the end while I was pushing the tube on. Also, keep pressure on it slightly while loosening and tightening the nut otherwise an air pocket can form in the tube. It's a real juggling act.

For the leaking air problem, make sure your lines come into the fittings straight and not at an angle. On mine, some side pressure on the lines caused air to leak.

It's a really messy and frustrating process, but the tool is great once done.
Thank you, I think I will try to bleed it again. I love it on the 3/32, and it is soooo close to being there on the 1/8th's but it's not quite there. Out of curiosity, what air pressure do you use when squeezing 1/8th rivets?
 
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Stroke length

I use the numatx as well. There is a definite travel length and while setting the rivet the yoke bends a little. So what seems to be sufficient before squeezing might not be enough. I have to change the rod and or shim for certain die-rivet combinations.
Patrick
 
I had similar problems. Tried more pressure and bleeding. What worked for me was changing the flat die/ compression pin length so that I was not relying on the last 3/16 or so of travel. IIRC it was right around the -5 length that caused a lot of switching back and forth between longer pin/thinner flat and vice- versa. Just guessing that there was just enough bending of the yoke to cause problems with the 1/8 rivets.
 
I had similar problems. I ran another 5-6 syringes of fluid through until I did not see even the tiniest bubble come out. It now works like a champ. I use 42psi for -3 rivets and 80psi for -4. I was very frustrated at first trying to get this set up and for a while wished I had just ordered the regular pneumatic squeezer from Cleaveland tool. However now that I finally have it dialed in its fantastic!! My only complaint with it now is my piston travel is only 7/16 of an inch. The manual says it should be more than that but since its working well I don't want to mess with it any more.

Eric
 
Thank you for all the replies. James from NUMATX e-mailed me back this morning. He thinks the hissing noise I hear coming from the foot pedal is a problem and that I need a new foot pedal. I am going to see if I can get a new foot pedal and then I will also bleed the unit again.

I will post back here when I get it resolved.
 
I had similar problems. I ran another 5-6 syringes of fluid through until I did not see even the tiniest bubble come out. It now works like a champ. I use 42psi for -3 rivets and 80psi for -4. I was very frustrated at first trying to get this set up and for a while wished I had just ordered the regular pneumatic squeezer from Cleaveland tool. However now that I finally have it dialed in its fantastic!! My only complaint with it now is my piston travel is only 7/16 of an inch. The manual says it should be more than that but since its working well I don't want to mess with it any more.

Eric
If you change your mind about messing with it make sure after you open the system for bleeding press the ram to the fully retracted position with your hands. When fully retracted, without any ram extender attached, the ram should be nearly flush with the squeezer body. If the ram is extended any amount when bleeding you will lose equal throw distance.
 
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I too, had issues getting mine setup to squeeze -4 rivets. In the end, I got creative and clamped the yoke high enough that the line was nearly vertical. I left it like that for a day (hoping any tiny air bubbles would move to the top) then bled the system with a couple syringes.

No idea if this technique actually works but, I can now properly set -4s with an appropriate PSI. I had previously bled the system multiple times with multiple syringes but was still unable to set the -4s.

Hope this helps someone. It is a GREAT tool once it is setup!!!
 
Love my Numatx

I have one of these too. I use 60psi for -3’s and 80psi for -4’s. I haven’t had any issue with it and do not do any shimming or adjustments for different rivets other than the air pressure setting. It’s a pleasure to use and I would buy it again without hesitation.

As others have said, it’s possible you have air in the system - due to its compressibility vs hydraulic fluid, the slightest amount will drop the final pressure. Do try reperforming the full bleeding process to be done during the initial setup. I did that initially and haven’t touched it for maintenance since putting it into service thousands of rivets ago.
 
It is hard to bleed the system effectively. I was getting fluid leaking past the threads of the lower port even though it was only loosened around 1/4 turn. A little Teflon tape on the threads solved that problem.

A trick for bleeding is to use a longer tube at the top port and submerge it in a cup partially filled with fluid. That will allow you to occasionally draw fluid back into the syringe. For some reason i found that air gets trapped near the lower port. The suction also seams more effective in removing air. Keep doing a combination of pushing and pulling fluid through the system until there is no air and then a few syringes more. It takes a while and is messy.
 
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