What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Show and Tell: Checklist and POH

Bullseye

Well Known Member
So I realize that I'm a little ahead of the game when it comes to checklists and POH, but I've been hot and heavy into them at work for my job, and I decided to try my hand at the RV-7 version.

They are obviously preliminary, but I wanted them to look nice, because I'm considering offering them for sale. Not for the content (which would come from the requesting builder/pilot, and there are a million places to get POH examples, including here on VAF), but for all the fancy formatting that I'm really perfectionist about.

Let me know what you think of these, and if you think anyone would purchase a custom checklist/POH. I know us RV builders are DIYers, but some people don't like word processing as much as I do.

The finished POH. (Pages are half sheets; 8.5 by 5.5)
20111108-002-medium.jpg


A closeup of the tabs.
20111108-003-medium.jpg


Sample of Section 4, Normal Procedures
20111108-004-medium.jpg


Sample of Section 8, Airplane Handling, Service, and Maintenance. (I know I spelled Maintenance wrong, and yes, it says section 11. I told you it was preliminary.
20111108-007-medium.jpg


Keep in mind with the checklists that these are painfully detailed. These describe all tasks. I could certainly make a condensed version with just the highlights.

The three checklists.
20111108-008-medium.jpg


A closeup of the emergency checklist
20111108-009-medium.jpg


I teach ALARMS to all my students in case of an engine failure while airborne.
20111108-010-medium.jpg


A closeup of the passenger brief.
20111108-011-medium.jpg


Let me know what you think!
 
I like it

Andrew,

I started out mine full sheet for 2 reasons.

1 - in the beginning I had many updates

2 - I felt I could easly make notes on the bigger paper size.

Once I became comfortable I didn't have as many cages I shrunk it down like yours.

I was pleasantly surprised I could still read it as good as the bigger version.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll find some interest with your "professional " look.

Regards,
 
It looks just like a "real" POH. I like it too. With all the RV's that get sold & resold, I guess having one is only going to become more important.
 
Reminds Me of My Old T.O. 1F-111(E)A-1CL-1

Let me know what you think!

Very military-like. I like it! Depending on the price, I would buy one rather than attempt my own (as I did with my Long-EZ).

But how will you handle customizations? And differing requirements inherent with different aircraft? And how would you handle updates?
 
Your OCD is impressive -- nice formatting! Do you do this in Word, Open/LibreOffice, or a typesetting language like LaTeX?

Hopefully those Ibco bindings will hold up. I've seen some at work that were always indoors yet disintegrated after only a short while. Off brand, perhaps?
 
That is a very professional handbook and checklist cards. How about making the handbook "Jep size" and put it in a one inch Jep binder, or better yet a plastic binder with the top view RV-7 drawing on it? The Jep size binder would allow for revisions without having to change out the whole manual or mark it up. Probably not to many revisions though.
 
I've been meaning to do that for my RV-6 since I bought it. That looks excellent.

I particularly like the mnemonics that I hadn't heard before... ALARMS for engine failure, and "Shaker is the taker" for who has control.
 
That is a very professional handbook and checklist cards. How about making the handbook "Jep size" and put it in a one inch Jep binder, or better yet a plastic binder with the top view RV-7 drawing on it? The Jep size binder would allow for revisions without having to change out the whole manual or mark it up. Probably not to many revisions though.

8.5 x 5.5 is "Jepp sized" all it needs is a 7 hole punch.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
The format looks great but reminds me of the KC-97 check list in the USAF years ago. The crew had to come in a day early to complete it.

The images indicate it is reasonable, but I wonder if it could be condensed just a bit. I like short, to the point check lists.
 
The format looks great but reminds me of the KC-97 check list in the USAF years ago. The crew had to come in a day early to complete it.

The images indicate it is reasonable, but I wonder if it could be condensed just a bit. I like short, to the point check lists.

Yeah, I wrote the first version as a "pinch hitter" type checklist. Hand it to a student pilot, and they'll be able to fly just like me. (Well, except for that whole smooth and precise...no one can match me there...jk).

For people more familiar with their airplanes, or with less complex systems, I would imaging a one-page, double sided version. Normal on the front, Emer on the back.

(A good example is the fouled plug burnout. I currently have that on there to help with my airplane if my girlfriend is flying. It doesn't necessarily need to be on yours.)

But, thanks for the compliments on the look, I'm very proud of them.
 
Checklist

There's also some application that puts the checklists on the iPad and some of the EFIS systems have the checklists in their memory. Perhaps a compatible electronic version would be handy. And, as another old Air Force guy (especially missile crew) we would live and die by our -1 checklist.
 
But how will you handle customizations? And differing requirements inherent with different aircraft? And how would you handle updates?

I think I would plan a review cycle with an electronic version before final printing.

Your OCD is impressive -- nice formatting! Do you do this in Word, Open/LibreOffice, or a typesetting language like LaTeX?

Hopefully those Ibco bindings will hold up. I've seen some at work that were always indoors yet disintegrated after only a short while. Off brand, perhaps?

I take the OCD comment as a compliment... It's just Word, but obsessively organized with styles, layouts, template, etc. The binding is basic binding from an office store, and the comb style allows one to take it apart.

That is a very professional handbook and checklist cards. How about making the handbook "Jep size" and put it in a one inch Jep binder, or better yet a plastic binder with the top view RV-7 drawing on it? The Jep size binder would allow for revisions without having to change out the whole manual or mark it up. Probably not to many revisions though.

I like the idea of a half-sized binder with the 7 hole punch. I'll have to look into upgrading from the comb binding to something like that. Any leads on half-sized binders? I'd half to get them custom printed if someone wants the N-number on there.

I think I'll get the website set up, but I can't post a link here until I'm a VAF advertiser...I'll start looking into it.
 
I take the OCD comment as a compliment... It's just Word, but obsessively organized with styles, layouts, template, etc. The binding is basic binding from an office store, and the comb style allows one to take it apart.
One would have to be OCD to get those results from Word. Coming from a printing background, I cringe whenever someone says they are laying out anything more complicated than a report using Word... It's just not designed to be doing what you've done. Not to say that it doesn't work, you've produced an impressive book. But take care not to open the same document on a different computer that has a different default printer... The document *will* reformat.

Personally, when i'm done making mine, I hope to have a PDF that I can put on the iPad, and a hard copy that I could hand to a passenger or, heaven forbid, a new owner. At least if you personalize the PDF to the airplane, it's unlikely that you'll lose a lot of business to people just copying the file for their friends.
 
rv8A POH

Hi All,
I've prepared a POH for my -8A.
If there is someone who wants to see it please let me know how to send and I'll send a pdf copy of it.
Ariel Arielly
 
Good idea

Andrew,
That really looks good and I think you may have a viable market niche.

Trying to learn the subtle formatting nuances of MS Word has replaced fiberglass work as my most dreaded part of aircract building. My personal view is that each pilot should construct his own POH to achieve the maximum familiarity with his/her aircraft. But that familiarity does not include word processing. So perhaps you could offer to take someone's content and do the "form, fit and finish" for them.
Don
 
Impressed

This looks very nice. Please keep us posted to price, availability and personalization. I am also interested for an RV7
 
Checklists and POH separate

I really like how that POH looks. I struggled with putting it all in a book versus all on laminated cards and now have some of both. Short and concise checklists are on two laminated 5.5" x 8.5" sheets, W&B info and examples are on a third sheet, then a book style POH contains all the details and systems info, replaceable item list, lubricant list, and the long, detailed versions of the checklists.

Same as Andrew did except not as pretty!

The book version ends up never getting used. Even when I have a novice in the back seat they can generally cook book about everything necessary using the laminated cards.

I did add some short checklists onto the laminated cards for simple functions on the com radio like using the flip flop and saving frequencies, and the leaning functions on the GRT EIS-4000. I need to change that part now since I am finishing the installation of a SkyView though.
 
POH

Hi Andrew,
Looks excellent,
Could you quote me a price for an RV-7. N364SJ received her airworthiness on 11/18 and I think it would be a capitol idea if I had one of these in the aircraft for 1st flight.
(The FAA thinks so too)
fischerwood at windstream dot net
Thanks
Jerry
 
Hello everyone.

I've been experimenting a little, and I think the POHs are going to be prohibitively expensive. They're about 15-20 man-hours, and at the normal aviation tech pubs rate of $50 to $75 per hour, and even if I cut that in half...well, I'm not going to do the math... you can always email me though...

The checklists are pretty painless, though...and they're all looking good.

Now I need to email Doug for an advertising rate card so I can post the link to the website.

Cheers everyone.
 
Hello everyone.

I've been experimenting a little, and I think the POHs are going to be prohibitively expensive. They're about 15-20 man-hours, and at the normal aviation tech pubs rate of $50 to $75 per hour, and even if I cut that in half...well, I'm not going to do the math... you can always email me though...

The checklists are pretty painless, though...and they're all looking good.

Now I need to email Doug for an advertising rate card so I can post the link to the website.

Cheers everyone.

I applaud your efforts, and if I could offer a suggestion? You won't likely find too many buyers for a several hundred dollar custom-made POH, but you might find quite a few for a *template* POH, complete with formatting, sections (with example text to modify), index, cross-references, etc., which could be modified by a user with some basic Word proficiency.

I plan on creating a POH which matches the standard format (sections, topics, fonts, headers, footers, etc.) of any GA production aircraft...I have a whole shelf-full of them from the various planes I've flown, so I have good examples to work from...but I'd be very interested in paying a modest price for a Word template to use (I think those are .dot files?).

Anyway, just a suggestion...most of us can do the writing or mod specific to our aircraft, and we can print them out and have them punched, and even have tabs made up at Kinko's or whatever. What would ease the pain is something that eliminates the tedious job of type-setting, etc.
 
template please!

yup, I think twenty guys will pay $20 for a template, but only one will pay $200 for a custom POH.
We are experimenters eh?....so next year we will add some dang gadget, and then it's not in our POH, or checklist.

......just my stoopid opinon of course.
 
Actually not stupid, it makes perfect sense to me.

So if your listening, I too would be interested in a template purchase for $20
Let us know.
 
I hate paper work

Honestly for the pain in the deepest parts of my soul this would avoid, I would be one of your $500 to $700 dollar clients.

I would rather paint my own aircraft and save $3000 and give you $500 bucks because its worth it to someone like me.

What I would like is how does it look on an iPad?

Thats where I would really be looking for it.

Its already on my knee and I can just flick to the right page or do a search it just makes sence.

What do you think?
 
My buddy and I were *just* talking about this over beers and cigars last night :).

Still would love to have a template for MS Word...getting close to writing the POH, and I *hate* mucking around with Word formatting stuff...
 
Very nice

Andrew,
If this checklist is any indication of the kind of work your doing on your kit, you will never have to worry about selling it... You will have offers before you even hang the sign... :) ( save my e mail address) LOL
As a previous purchaser of a flying RV, I can tell you that this kind of attention to detail shows really well... I did it for the airplane I bought, although My work was no where near as nice as Andrew has done it...
Very impressive. Well done.

Dennis
 
nice work! Have a 2007 rv-7a. CS prop, o-360 A1A motor, slider, VFR macine. Are you sharing your work?

Don

Gaffney, SC
 
Template purchaser . . .

I'm still hoping ot purchase the template! I'll do the mods to make it mine! Rick 9A 90432
 
Hello everyone.

I haven't forgotten about trying to figure out a template for everyone.

I am mainly just trying to figure out how to format it in Word so that when you hook up your printer, the whole document doesn't reformat itself.

I've got it set up as a 5.5" x 8.5" paper format right now, which won't work with many people's home printers.

(On a side note, selling a .dot word template is great, until people start sharing it. I have to figure out how strongly I want to protect it...)

Consider this a promise to have something available, but not a promise on timeline. I'll keep working.
 
Hello everyone.

I haven't forgotten about trying to figure out a template for everyone.

I am mainly just trying to figure out how to format it in Word so that when you hook up your printer, the whole document doesn't reformat itself.

I've got it set up as a 5.5" x 8.5" paper format right now, which won't work with many people's home printers.

(On a side note, selling a .dot word template is great, until people start sharing it. I have to figure out how strongly I want to protect it...)

Consider this a promise to have something available, but not a promise on timeline. I'll keep working.

Excellent! Sooner is better, I've started writing mine this past week... :)

Oh, and I prefer the 5.5" x 8.5" format (it just means it gets printed as a booklet with some rotating and all that)...more compact. Recommend that you allow both options, for different user preferences...
 
I am mainly just trying to figure out how to format it in Word so that when you hook up your printer, the whole document doesn't reformat itself.
People trying to submit Word documents as source files for printed works have been the bane of printers' existences for about 20 years.

I know that moving it to another program would be a fair bit of work, but before you completely dismiss the idea out-of-hand, at least take a look at what is out there, and consider if it really *would* be all that much work, compared to the other alternatives. Scribus, for example, is a free, open-source document layout program. It runs on Windows, Mac, and Unix, and is reasonably user-friendly.

I know Word can be massaged into producing a document that works, on one computer, one printer, and with one set of fonts. My checklist is still done in Word, something I continually tell myself I will fix someday but never seem to get around to. As it's just for me it's not an issue, but many people have asked me for copies of it so they could modify it for their aircraft, and every one has complained that the formatting didn't work out on their printer. I usually just get the changes from them and make them a PDF from my copy.

Something else to consider... Maybe donating this to the community would be a good "pay it forward" exercise?
 
Simple license agreement and give it me in word

Really, I'll take in word and suffer through. If your template gets me through a logical progression for the POH, I'm happy. I don't expect the,POH to be a one hour project. Take some of my money and let me at it ;)

Rick 90432
 
Maybe donating this to the community would be a good "pay it forward" exercise?

Rob, thank you for your suggestion. It will be considered. I would like to point out that for people trying to start an aviation-related business, it's hard to generate revenue with donations. It's certainly not out of the question, but please let me run through the economics of it.

Really, I'll take in word and suffer through. If your template gets me through a logical progression for the POH, I'm happy. I don't expect the,POH to be a one hour project. Take some of my money and let me at it ;)

Rick 90432

Hi Rick, I'll try to have something available within the week.

I am also interested in a template.

Hi Nick. Per above, I'll try to have something available within the week. No license agreements, though.
 
Check lists ?

Looking thru some old posts and noticed an attempt to create some Vans specific CHECKLISTS. Any one have an updated version to share (or Sell?) My previous Cardinals had excellent laminated checklist cards I think from Checkmate or someone similar? I know the models/performance are specific to the builder but a universal type card specific to RV10 would be kind of cool for multiple pilots in my family to use. The multi page paper ones don't last long at all. Any sources for one ?
 
Back
Top