Panel Layout - Radios.

Ok, here is a possibly silly question, written for my own amusement but I still wouldn't mind an actual answer.

In the RV-8, why does most everyone put their radios on the right side of the panel? Makes no sense to me since you are flying right handed. Would seem to make more sense to stack em all on the left since that hand is pretty much free.

Is it simply that most people are righties and therefor more inclined to diddle the knobs with their "good" hand?

Is it just tradition no one seems willing to break?

Its it because in Thailand you dare not shake with the left hand because its used for...um...well...

Will the aviation gods strike thee down in rightous wrath should one vary from the norm?

Laying out my new panel now and after realizing I was doing the same thing I am wondering WHY I am bothering to stick it all on the right. lol.

Actually Scott, there are more than a few folks who put the radios on the left, but I'm not one of them.

When I was laying out my panel, I had the same thought - fly right, diddle knobs left. Then I showed my layouts to some of the guys at work, including grads of Navy and Air Force Test pilot School and human factors engineers who reminded me that it's all about fine motor skills. (Their exact words were "we didn't know you were left-handed!")

Most folks can fly equally well with either hand, but twiddling knobs to spell out identifiers, select frequencies, or push tiny buttons takes a finer finger-tip control that is not always present in our non-dominant hand. If you fly left seat in a side-by-side, you fly left, diddle right....right?

But the great thing about experimental aviation is that you don't have to take anyone's word for it - you can try it for yourself before you cut any metal. Stack your radios and practice both left and right - or better yet, get in an airplane with working radios and try it. if you find you have no problem either way, lay it out however you want. if you find it works better one way or another - do it that way!

(What I have found, BTW, is that if I am doing a lot of diddling, I generally have the autopilot engaged anyway, as I am flying IFR or at least in a cross-country environment whee I am selecting flight plan routes and changing frequencies. My hand isn't even on the stick. And if I am doing very fine flying, or lots of maneuvering, I am generally not changing frequencies or waypoints.)

Experiment yourself and build it the way it works best for you - don't be afraid to do it differently than others, but don't be afraid to allow your mind to be changed by the experiment.

Paul

Good answers all. Thanks. Figured it was fine motor issues.

There is the irony...I am a lefty. But I can use either hand pretty well. I just do not like letting go of the stick to adjust things.

My current panel has the Garmin 300XL dead center low in the panel where you can not even read it. So was going to move everything over to the right in a vertical stack. Starting from top down, Garmin 496 dock, Garmin 300XL radio, small secondary King radio, and transponder on bottom. Could do it on either side...but brain went into automatic mode and started designing for the right side. Then thought...what? lol.

Course, come resale time, probably makes sense to go with the majority on it.

A pox on righties. hehe.

Gotta Love Van's. At $26 buck a pop, I do not mind potentially messing up a panel or two until I am happy!

How one lays out an instrument panel says a lot about a builder's taste. This is one area where he gets to express himself. Frankly, I am baffled by the way some builders lay out a panel often seeming to take an scattershot, incoherent approach. From my perspective, some examples seem truly awkward, even confusing.

When I designed the instrument panel in my -8, I did it just like before. I took a low tech approach and simply taped a series of full scale cardboard cutouts to the panel, sat in the cockpit and shifted them around again and again until I was satisfied to the extent I consider visually pleasing. Ergonomics plays a supporting role sure...but is not necessarily my first priority. It just so happened that given the components I had to work with, centering the radio stack seemed somehow seemed "symmetrical" and works for me. Bottom line: Don't be unduly influenced by what other builders have done. Place the radios and other components where you want to interpret and access them from.

Rick - sending you a PM about MVP-50

Rick, check you PM

Just another thought.

Regardless of how you lay it out, if once your up and running you find that you just don't like the way it is, you can always get another panel from Van's and have a clean sheet to start over with. Their pretty inexpensive.

I for one went with the radio stack to the left and love it. No problem turning those knobs for radio frequencies. My transponder is a Garmin 327 so putting in the codes is a push button operation.

Really as said by others, just do what you want.

Ted

Left Stack

I went with the stack on the left, though I gave serious consideration to the right after reading Paul's discussion in an earlier post about fine motor skill. I have flown fighters and now the co-pilot seat of the 767. I did a lot of flying with the right hand and manipulated things with the left. In the Eagle there is a cursor control that was on the throttle, this required fairly fine movements to operate. So that is why I went with the left stack. As one post above stated you can alway buy a new panel and start over. When I was working on my layout which is still in the works I took the advice from someone on this board and sat in front of the panel in the plane and chair-flew flights from startup to shut down. It will tell you a lot of how your layout will work for you.

Cheers

Radios across the bottom

I'm no great high time aviator, But I have owned a few old planes.
None of them had coherent panels.
1) 1958 Cessna 172 (two of 'em)
2) 1967 Cherokee 140
3) 1958 Bellanca Cruisemaster.
I converted Cessna #2 to an Instrument trainer, and built a Sacred Six panel for it. The chains behind the panel prevent a modern theme, so I stuck to the 'radios across the bottom'.
When I layed out the RV-8 panel, I realized that you can't have a centered Sacred Six with the radios in a stack. It's just to narrow.
I want all the indicators to be as high on the panel (close to the windshield) as possible, so you don't have to look down very far to see them.
Now, which ever hand you use to adjust the radios, they will never get high enough to block the view of any indicator. Now you can use either hand depending on work load.
I sat in the SR-71 cockpit at the Boeing Flight Museum. It was a pre-glass cockpit job that had a severe accident and fire, but the forward fuse was undamaged. I noticed that the panel was devided into groups, and white tape was used to devide them.
The Power group was all on the left side with the throttle. The basic Flight group was in the middle, and the Nav group was on the right side. The radios were down at hip level on the right side where the fuselage is wider.
RV-8 fuselages don't get much wider there, so I went with the SR-71 theme until I got to the radios, then I followed the old General Aviation standby, Radios Across the Bottom.
If you follow my link at the bottom, you can see my panel, minus the Dynon 10 where the center plate is. I started with an old AN gyro there, but thought better of it.

Just for another data point, I placed my stack on the left side and am very happy that I did. Paul made a good argument for the right side, but I'm still of the opinion that the fidgeting should be mostly done with the left hand in a tandem aircraft. I don't think that this is a huge deal, but it is your airplane and you want it right (for you).

My radio is on the left and...

I'm right handed. Don't wish I had done it any differrent and it's no big deal. It's a small cockpit and panel, you can get to almost anything fine with any hand if you really want to anyway....It's not like we are pros flying 12 hours a day every day making many stops along the ways like a regional pilot where annoyances would really add up fast.

I purchased my 8A, and I am in the process of redoing my panel. I am eager to hear different perspectives on the layout. I will give you my opinion on what I have found to be important to me. I purchased the plane from the builder's widow so I didn't question her to why the panel was built the way it was. The air frame is very well built so I'm not sure why he fell short on the panel.
The GR EIS 4000 was mounted low and to the left. It took the engine gauges out of my scan so I was catching myself my noticing important things such as OT and OP. with the radio mounted low center you have to turn your head a little to see the frequency but very convenient to get to with either hand. I am also left handed but actually feel more comfortable with the joy stick in my right.
I also like having all instruments with a heading indicator in the center. My dynon didn't have an external compass so the heading was never correct, having the GPS below the EFIS made it easy to compare,
I also like the compass in the same line of view. There is not enough room to include the GPS dock in the avionic stack with dual radios. I am not going to use a audio panel, I am going to just have switches between radios. Quite a few of the RV pilots I have talked to like the radio stack on the left, so I don't think it will affect your resale value either way. I purchased a blank and cut out actual size instruments and I also used xpanel software to get ideas of what would work best. I have included pictures of how it started my first change and how I am redoing it now.

Workload

Not sure what class those TPS grads were in but as a Naval Test Pilot School grad myself I can tell you they missed the section on Workload. If you fly right handed and have to manipulate knobs, switches, breakers with the left hand (assume you are flying in turb, no auto pilot) then you'll either have to change hands on the stick or cross in front of your body to manipulate those functions with the left hand. The Aviation Human Factors folks would have a fit and so would I were I evaluating that set up. Not to say it isn't safe, or workable but it WILL be a higher workload and in worse case conditions (night, IMC, turb, on the ILS to minimums) having higher workload is not as good as less. The motor skills required to turn a knob or push a button would under standard measures NOT be considered "fine" at all and are considered fairly simple tasks.

My GPS/COM/xpdr/Audio panel will be on the left
VP-50 switching center low
Flaps, starter, landing lights switches on Throttle
Infinity grip for most other routine functions

Center High - Dynon Skyview
Right high - Dynon EFIS D10A
Right Low - ????

Ken

I fly both tandem/single seat and side-by-side aircraft, sometimes going between the two different types multiple times on the same day. I normally fly the tandem with the right hand and the side-by-side with the left.

I will change flying hands periodically just to stretch and the like, but I do find it awkard when I have to tune radios or work the GPS with my left hand. It's not difficult, it just takes some getting used to. However, I wouldn't want to try and mess with a flight plan and load a GPS approach with the left hand (partially because the glider isn't IFR equipped ) - I just have a dominant right hand where fine motor skills are involved.

TODR

wera710 said:

.....In the RV-8, why does most everyone put their radios on the right side of the panel? ......

Click to expand...

Wouldn't think it's as critical in the tandem RV8 as it might be in a side by side.....
Click for larger image....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wera710 View Post
.....In the RV-8, why does most everyone put their radios on the right side of the panel? ......

I've thought long and hard about this also; and am placing my radios on the left. The thinking is as has been discussed - keep your right hand flying on the stick and let your left hand move about. I currently fly a Decathlon and one of my gripes is that the radio and xponder are on the right and switching squawk frequency is a hassle. This has me convinced left side radios is better. Of course I'm sure others will see it differently.

Just two pennys on this. I am set up with the radio stack to the left side of the main center plate. Do it the way you like it. Learn to play the piano or the guitar or as I did the viola.. or get your self in the right seat with a "CFII" under your belt. I have learned that the left hand can if you practice, practice,practice and then put on a blind-fold and practice some more. You can do it! Have fun with this, it's your toy.
Yours as always R.E.A. III #80888

Consider what happens when flying formation. You need to keep your eyes on the other aircraft, hands on the stick and throttle.

The left hand can (briefly) be removed from the throttle to control the radio or other switches, but the right hand needs to be kept on the stick at all times.

That's why a lot of folks use Infinity stick grips and mount the radio stack on the left, along with the throttle quadrant.

Also, everything needs to be done by feel (except maybe tuning the radios). Logical placement of switches and instruments is important.

Vern
FAST Wingman rated.

radios left, practice

I put the radio stack on the left for the reasons stated above.

Then, I started to worry - maybe I didn't have the left-hand control I needed.
I started occasionally practicing normal tasks left handed. When I started, I could barely dial a touch-tone phone left handed. Now, I don't even think about it. So, I'm hoping I can fiddle with the 396 and the radios left handed. We'll find out pretty soon. If not, it is not much of a reach for the right hand anyway.