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Kid dangling from my prop

JimWoo50

Well Known Member
Was at a open house for the local residential air park and from 50' away I saw a 3yr old hanging from my prop. I was shocked. Before I could get over there a pilot closer to the plane told the kid to get off and mentioned to the mother that activity could be very dangerous. She walked away before I got there so I never spoke with her. This is not the first time my aircraft has been touched by uninitiated people and I'm getting really leery of leaving it unattended at these types of events. I really doubt I am alone in this sentiment. I hate to be a stick in the mud but I feel the organizers of these events-Oshkosh too- could be a little more proactive in educating their attendees that the aircraft are not to be touched without the owners permission.
 
Haven't been in my plane to a fly-in yet, but I am hesitant to go whenever I am flying. Some people in attendance just don't have a clue. I'm afraid I'd go to jail if I saw someone sitting on my plane, hanging on the prop, and/or any of the other horror stories I've read on here.
 
On the other hand

I attended the Salinas airshow today and was terribly disappointed at how few airplanes were in attendance. Upon arriving and securing the airplane I was given a flyer specifically pointing out that I should not attempt to go back to my airplane as the area would be cordoned off for security reasons.
Having heard about an increasing number of spectators with little or no respect for other people's property, I was a bit shocked at seeing my plane parked with a handful of visiting airplanes and barricaded behind fences and security guards. I don't think the reason for the drastic measure was to keep the hands of spectators away from airplanes but rather some perceived or real threat to airport security.
As far as I could tell, no one got closer than about 100 feet within my plane.
No one hung their kid from the prop but no one saw the airplane either.
I don't think I am going back next year.:(
 
If I have two choices: 1) People can see my plane and possibly damage things due to messing with it or 2) My plane is safe from damage from thoughtless people and no one sees it. I will pick option 2.
 
Hmmm...I don't think the general public really understand the dangers lurking around aircraft, nor the fragile nature of our RV's. Most people haven't been up and close and don't know the proper protocols. Damage to my plane is one of the risks I assume when going to a public event. It's part of being an "ambassador of GA".

I am pretty sure to a 3 year old, a prop is a pretty cool thing to hang off of. Of course, he has no idea that it's dangerous and we need to do some education with him. Mom and Dad may have no idea either that it's dangerous.

I say, take the opportunity at ever chance and teach someone.
 
Always watching

I love going to fly-ins. The brotherhood is second to none. Can't leave my airplane unattended any more though. Because of how kids are raised these days, often to include their parents, the basic farm knowledge and common sense is just not there. These kids have no idea how things work, how to weld, what a wrench is, no respect for other people's items etc.... Thus the tendency to hang on props and stand on wheel pants is prevalent. Their parents don't know either and fail to curb the behaviors. We always did a super careful preflight of the UH-60 after an airshow. We always disconnected the battery before letting the public near as well. The onus is now on our shoulders. No matter how much patience is required, we bear the responsibility of passing on the proper education to the keyboard generation. These kids just don't know better and both them and their parents need the education. I will keep going to fly-ins and airshows but will always keep a watchful eye on the RV-3.
Best,
Brian
 
Rocks in the Pitot

I once caught a 5ish year old kid trying to shove rocks in my pitot tube at a fly-in. I yelled at the girl to stop, just before she succeeded. She started crying, which really made me feel like a schmuck. Her tears only lasted a few seconds, then she ran over to my buddies Pitts, and did a belly flop up on to the bottom wing.

The parents were no where around.
 
We not going to change the world or how adults bring up there children. I was at a car show, I have a invoice sheet I place in my side window showing the cost and accessories of the car from the manufacture.
I watched a middle school girl come over and start reading, well she immediately used her finger as a guide, her parents told her to not touch, and her reply was I'm reading. The point is, you are not going to change something that has been instilled in them from birth. There are the few cases that are over the line but I will continue to take my cars and plane to shows because I like showing them off and I know kids love seeing them. I will do my best at watching my stuff and keeping kids in line when around mine and other guys pride and joy. I think we should work harder a policing each other's stuff and not relying on the kids to do the right thing.
 
After posting a similar question last month (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=103531), I've thought long and hard about attending fly-ins. Where I ended up is essentially this : If the fly-in is run by an EAA chapter with a large RV or builder contingent, things seem to be much better. If the fly-in is run by the CAP, the local community, or an EAA chapter that is more of a social group then I don't go.
 
When my girls were little (look for my #2 in my pic) one of the first things I taught them was "look with your eyes, not with your hands". It was a way of learning respect for property that still seems to work now they are almost adults.

We just had an airport day and assigned our C.A.P. students to patrol the static displays and educate kids (and parents) about why banging on the wings and hanging off the prop are bad things. I often stopped to explain how airplanes are strong in the air but fragile on the ground so they can be light enough to fly. If they listened about how a wing-walk is the only safe place to stand on the wing - I let them stand there and move the stick to see how the airplane is controlled.

I see it as a chance to educate and, hopefully, kindle the fire in the 1-in-a-100 who might come back train. We also tell them how to sign up for young eagles flights.
 
<snip> If the fly-in is run by an EAA chapter with a large RV or builder contingent, things seem to be much better. If the fly-in is run by the CAP, the local community, or an EAA chapter that is more of a social group then I don't go.

In my experience there is one thing worse than the "social group" gathering that Brad mentions, anything promoted by a non-aviation group. Some well intentioned charities and non-profits have found that airplanes and classic cars draw people. Problem is the people in charge frequently don't know anything about airplanes, cars or human behavior. If I believe in the charity, I will write a check and leave my airplane or collector car in the hangar.

John Clark ATP, CFI
Aviator & Gearhead
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
I have read a LOT of similar threads recently and feel compelled to offer my unique opinion.

1. Most builders, people who have literally stuck with one activity for YEARS, are usually a bit on the anal side, myself included. I read a lot of frustrated comments on here and other sites that sound more like unrealistic expectations of an anal builder for an uneducated populace.

2. Most builders (not all, but most) are older. Many have long ago forgotten what a 3-5 year old is actually like. I have little kids and taking a 3-4 year old to an airshow or fly-in would be sensory overload. A 3 year old is going to "hang on a prop" if left alone. At that age it is not a training issue, rather a "herding" issue.

3. The general populace has NO IDEA what they should or should not do around aircraft and most people do not really pay attention to signage. Right or wrong, we have to constantly monitor and EDUCATE the masses.

4. Human nature 101 - if you yell at, publicly confront in a perceived belittling manner, make someone feel dumb or inferior, etc they WILL react negatively.

If you want to show off your plane, part of the deal is you are going to have to take on the role of proactive educator, ambassador, etc. and there is a very real risk that my son is going to chew through his leash and be standing on your wheel pant while I frantically search in every nook and cranny for him. And when I finally find him, relief warring with frustration and anger that he ran off, your snipping comments about my parenting and "kids these days" is not going to elicit a positive response from me. I have repaired more kid inspired damage to my cub in the past 4 years than you would care to hear...and I have obedient and respectful kids that are growing up around aircraft.

I welcome all of the snotty kids and stupid adults at any fly-in. Hopefully they will leave educated, enchanted and inspired. When the time comes that I cannot cope with this reality, I will leave my plane safely ensconced in its cavern...exiting only for short local flights.
 
Very well said. We shouldn't forget we are representatives of GA in general and RVs in particular.
 
I mostly agree with meloosifah but...

Unrealistic expectation? Anal Builder? I bet if this woman came out of the grocery store and kids were hanging all over her car she would frown upon it and read them the riot act. is it too much to expect to have ones personal property left unmolested without having to stand guard over it? This person was being stupidly irresponsible by allowing her kids to hang on my prop. Hopefully she learned something after being admonished by the gentleman that cautioned her.
 
Last Saturday I went to a fly-in breakfast at Leadville, CO. I had been listening to the parking suggestions during the flight in and that ended as I turned off the runway.

I followed the guy ahead and parked next to him. Went inside to a new building, paid my $6 and walked up to the serving area. To my surprise, they not only had pancakes, sausage links but also hash browns and scrambled eggs.

I was ecstatic. Enjoyed my meal talking to the RV couple ahead of me. Got seconds. Talked about getting gas. The truck was not being used so we walked over to the self-serve.

The gas truck did finally get to us and a father and his son looked inside my plane. I greeted them as I prepared to have fuel delivered. Up until that time I had not even thought about people damaging my plane which is the way it should be.

This breakfast seemed to be different than the Granby CO event which seems to get most of the attendees from the local town. Plane damage may be more likely at Granby than Leadville.

Regardless, I should not have to be concerned with someone damaging my plane. The idea that I have to be an ambassador and risk damage to my plane is wrong. If event coordinators don't care about the security of my plane, I won't go.
 
i recently read a thread like this a month ago. with that thread in mind i went to a fly-in. after i parked a cessna driver clipped the tip of my wing while taxiing by!
 
I had a great steak breakfast at the Rocket Shop Cafe Sunday morning. John Harmon had his Rocket parked outside and it was touching to see moms holding their children's hands going outside to get a closer look.

Only old guys like me were touching it.

Only two incidents come to mind-- a tee shirt vendor parked his red pick up under the prop of our CAF C-47-- ruining photos and refused to move it at the Riverside Airshow.

Oshkosh-- a nice family-- two in a stroller-- guy looks around for a place to set his plastic cup full of beer so can take a picture of Van. He sets it on the RV-10 wing. :)
 
Beer at Oshkosh?

When did they start serving beer at Oshkosh? Haven't been for a few years so I didn't know they changed that policy.

Steve
 
Briefing

At the LAA rally in the UK everyone who goes airside is given a briefing sheet which tells them how to behave...... even pilot/builders returning to their aircraft. In the ten or so years that I ran the security at the rally I only arrested two people. One a microlight pilot who got drunk in the evening and thought it would be clever to let the fire trucks tyres down. He spent a night in the cells and was thrown off site the next morning.

The second was a young lad who threw a stone at his sister which missed but hit and damaged the wing of a parked aeroplane. He was cautioned by the police for criminal damage.

Large signs saying props are dangerous, aircraft are fragile and will not support the weight of your child are a must!! Also, roving patrols to ensure the rules are followed.
 
I have read a LOT of similar threads recently and feel compelled to offer my unique opinion.

1. Most builders, people who have literally stuck with one activity for YEARS, are usually a bit on the anal side, myself included. I read a lot of frustrated comments on here and other sites that sound more like unrealistic expectations of an anal builder for an uneducated populace.

2. Most builders (not all, but most) are older. Many have long ago forgotten what a 3-5 year old is actually like. I have little kids and taking a 3-4 year old to an airshow or fly-in would be sensory overload. A 3 year old is going to "hang on a prop" if left alone. At that age it is not a training issue, rather a "herding" issue.

3. The general populace has NO IDEA what they should or should not do around aircraft and most people do not really pay attention to signage. Right or wrong, we have to constantly monitor and EDUCATE the masses.

4. Human nature 101 - if you yell at, publicly confront in a perceived belittling manner, make someone feel dumb or inferior, etc they WILL react negatively.

If you want to show off your plane, part of the deal is you are going to have to take on the role of proactive educator, ambassador, etc. and there is a very real risk that my son is going to chew through his leash and be standing on your wheel pant while I frantically search in every nook and cranny for him. And when I finally find him, relief warring with frustration and anger that he ran off, your snipping comments about my parenting and "kids these days" is not going to elicit a positive response from me. I have repaired more kid inspired damage to my cub in the past 4 years than you would care to hear...and I have obedient and respectful kids that are growing up around aircraft.

I welcome all of the snotty kids and stupid adults at any fly-in. Hopefully they will leave educated, enchanted and inspired. When the time comes that I cannot cope with this reality, I will leave my plane safely ensconced in its cavern...exiting only for short local flights.

Very well said. If you don't want children around your plane, leave it at home or safety tape it off. It seems this thread comes up every couple of months with the same stories, yet every time I've been to Oshkosh or SnF the biggest worry by far is weather damage, not an out of control public. Perhaps I'm just as dangerous as that kid, but a child hanging from my prop would make me smile, not yell. Yes, I would lift him down and explain why propellers can be dangerous but with the intent to educate and generate interest, not to berate.

The public can vote our (completely unnecessary) favorite hobby out of existence if they choose to. Let's face it, we do endanger others every time we leave the ground. Perhaps we should give that just a bit of thought when we interact with the non flying public.
 
...The public can vote our (completely unnecessary) favorite hobby out of existence if they choose to. Let's face it, we do endanger others every time we leave the ground. Perhaps we should give that just a bit of thought when we interact with the non flying public...

Hobby to you, perhaps. To me however, it is a form of transportation that is just as relevant (and less dangerous) as my car. And while I will agree that we are under threat of increasing restriction, we must never forget that flying, like driving, riding a bicycle or walking around unimpeeded by the government is a protected right in the US. If we as pilots/aircraft owners start to actually believe the BS that the ability to freely move about in this country is a "priviledge", then we have more to worry about than the general public's opinion.

And yes, young kids are like wild animals, I agree. They're going to try do the wrong thing at all times. Even as someone who made a conscious decision to NOT have kids, I understand this. The problem is with the parents who fail miserably to control them. The kids don't know better, and the parents don't care. End result: damaged airplane and the cycle of ignorance continues. Why should the responsibility fall on the happless aircraft owner to correct the fundamental ills of our scociety? I'm happy to introduce people to aviation on a one on one basis, but letting my airplane be a jungle gym for a wild, unsupervised child... Not anymore.
 
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Been there too

I was asked to bring my Air Tractor to the Boshears Skyfest (Augusta, Ga.)airshow/fly-in in October and have done so before. It's a 24 year old workhorse and more than likely will be stepped on but I'll be there, trying to educate kids and parents about where their cotton undies, blue jeans and peanut butter come from.

I've decided that we'll just do the best we can and maybe ask a teenager or two to play "Little kid cops." :)

Best,
 
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