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am i risking my medical?

lightning

Well Known Member
I've recently gone thru a pretty rough..... experience, and over the past month i've been struggling, and it's gotten pretty hard. I know that anti-depressants can be prescribed for short terms to help deal with situations like this, but i'm wondering if i'm risking my medical?

also how does this affect my life insurance/medical insurance for a short term prescription?
 
Hang in there

FWIW, I'm offered anti-depressants every physical. Reason.. I'm freakin 56 and tell the doc I just can't do it like I usta'could. Any of these 'helpful' prescriptions would void my medical.

Anit-depressants are very over-prescribed and lots of docs will give you the Rx just to see if it helps what ails you. If you press your doc about the side effects and aviation, they frequently back off. So where's the need?

Myself, I'm back at the gym 4-5 times/week, dropping a few pounds and feel much better. No pills.

Give it a try. If you have a real medical condition (synapses not firing right, etc) then you may be a candidate for the Rx. If its what you need to really get better, well, that's life. Maybe you are not pilot stuff. But before you get there, try gettin' physical and be sure to exhaust the natural (what you know our should be doing) route first.

These are indeed trying times but a Father/Son RV-8 project? Things are looking up!

Consider AOPA and the medical help they provide. Well worth it.

Best of luck to you.
 
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Take Care of Yourself First!

Lightning,
I'm not a doc, but my free advice is to take care of your health first and worry about flying second.

Too many of us avoid seeking treatment because we're afraid of losing our medical or flight status.

Talk to your doctor and get the treatment you need-it's much better to be healthy and not fly than to try and fly while you have health issues!

Mike
 
I was faced with the same decision last year. Very difficult. I understand the dilemma... "Though I'm really unhappy, flying always brightens my day But if I take ADs to be less unhappy, then I can't fly." The FAA will ground you for anti-depressants and will not reinstate until you've been off the AD for 90 days. My doc recommended counseling and "talk therapy" and staying off depressants if at all possible.
 
Health first

Ian, you ask...I know that anti-depressants can be prescribed for short terms to help deal with situations like this, but i'm wondering if i'm risking my medical?

From above, I see some excellent replies, especially take care of your health first. Also, why not give the AOPA medical specialists a call, first thing in the morning?

I just checked the AOPA site, and (as you probably guessed) one cannot keep the med cert while taking meds for depression. I suspect, however, that once the meds are no longer needed, that you can get your cert back.

One other note. I grounded myself w a med condition (sleep apnea) a few years back, and once I got diagnosed and properly treated, I was able to get my med back, with the limitation that I see a doc once a year. I'm glad I went the route of treating then worrying about the med certificate.

Good luck, and post back with how you are doing!

.
 
Hey Cap'n Sacto

Sorry to bend the thread but please tell of your experiences / medical issues with sleep apnea. (It's why I'm back at the gym).
Thanx!
 
Talk therapy

because i don't wanna type it all back up i'll summarize it like this:

I don't think i need pills.
Mom's a Doc, she doesn't think i need them
I don't know many people here in Jax, and being lonely is just making it worse
I DO need someone to talk to.. i have great friends and family but they're all far away for now
Attended a bible study tonight, and that was exactly what I needed, and it was incredibly helpful to interact with like minded people :D


the main reason I asked about the AD pills was because I was honestly curious what the lifestyle side affects were, NOT because i think i'll do something drastic (or deadly) with out them.

thank yall so much for the input! I really appreciate the helpful spirit of the guys on this site! I can't wait to build my -8 and get to come meet yall in person :cool:
 
Winston Churchill once said that if you are going through h-e-l-l, keep going.

As a pharmacist, I could talk to you for several hours about the different kinds of antidepressants, side effects, etc.... Keep in mind they are not magic pills, may take up to several weeks to become fully effective, and you still have to face what is beating you up instead of trying to medicate it away.

I would not recommend a pharmaceutical intervention if you wish to continue flying. Since it sounds like you are dealing with a recent event instead of a long term battle, use that to your advantage. My Dad told me that the difference between a bad day and a good day was 24 hours.

Some suggestions.....
- Pay attention to what you put in your body....ie: great time to eat properly and drop a few lb's if you need to.
- Exercise daily...Go to the gym, you will see the same folks there daily and make friends. Exercise was how I got through a divorce years ago. It will elevate your mood, help you sleep, and relieve stress. It will also do more for you totally than a single drug can.
- Go visit your folks back home. Even for a long weekend. Find an RV friend in area and pay gas, shop for discount flights, etc...
- Pray.
- I noticed Bible Study. Talk to you minister/priest. They are trained to help. The best thing the do is listen while you get it out.
- You say you can't wait to build your 8. If you haven't ordered the building book from Van's, order it. It will give you many hours of something to think about. Also building is a marvelous thing to loose yourself in.
- Go flying - Look at the Van's white pages and find some RV'ers in your area. I know it is a lot more fun to take someone who loves to fly when I'm just going out there to burn some av gas. Split the gas $$ and you'll be asked to go before you even call.
- Plan to go to Sun and Fun...coming soon and will give you something to look forward to.

You might even see if there is anyone from your area going to Dana Overall's flyin in Richmond, KY (I39) on Saturday. Put a post request out there and who knows.....Weather is supposed to be clear and you might find over a 100 RV's there. If you do, come find me, I'll be there.

Good luck to you.
 
Having gone through some dark days myself, I have found that physical training was the answer to my blues. I have to watch myself in the winter as the shorter periods of daylight tends to slow me down. (SAD syndrome...) I am convinced that drugs of all types are over subscribed in the US. Your body wants to be treated correctly with good food and physical work. Sit at a desk at work under a flickering florescent light and you can count of catching the blues. There is a fantastic book out there written by Jan De Hartog called "The Commodore". It is a book that blends a good sea tale with an introspective look at the aging process. The main character has a blood pressure crisis while at sea and is put on a strict diet of asian food and is able to come off his blood pressure meds...
The book is hilarious and serious at the same time. There are many good lessons in there for all of us. Stay off the drugs if you can.
 
Walgreens on every corner

Some suggestions.....
- Pay attention to what you put in your body....ie: great time to eat properly and drop a few lb's if you need to.
- Exercise daily...Go to the gym, you will see the same folks there daily and make friends. Exercise was how I got through a divorce years ago. It will elevate your mood, help you sleep, and relieve stress. It will also do more for you totally than a single drug can.
- Go visit your folks back home. Even for a long weekend. Find an RV friend in area and pay gas, shop for discount flights, etc...
- Pray.
- I noticed Bible Study. Talk to you minister/priest. They are trained to help. The best thing the do is listen while you get it out.
- You say you can't wait to build your 8. If you haven't ordered the building book from Van's, order it. It will give you many hours of something to think about. Also building is a marvelous thing to loose yourself in.
- Go flying - Look at the Van's white pages and find some RV'ers in your area. I know it is a lot more fun to take someone who loves to fly when I'm just going out there to burn some av gas. Split the gas $$ and you'll be asked to go before you even call.
- Plan to go to Sun and Fun...coming soon and will give you something to look forward to.

I am convinced that drugs of all types are over subscribed in the US. Your body wants to be treated correctly with good food and physical work.


I total agree with the above posts. Some Doctor's will just throw out Rx to solve the problem. Suggested above are all excellent and can work better then meds. You just need to find out what works for you. To me flying is the best med so if I had to take a Rx that prevented me from flying I would be going backwards.

Good Luck
 
Hey Ian,

From your last post it sounds like you really have it together. If your November home coming is your exit from the Navy, keep that chin up and don't count the days or that 9 months will turn in to 12:eek:.....Your family, friends and an RV-8 await you:D Way better than any meds. Thank you for your service young man.

Robb 7A
 
webb, following some great advice...
i've posted a few feelers out there... :D, and offered up some gas $$
and spending lots of time at the feet of Jesus..
also planning a trip to visit the family, but "operational commitment" says not yet, wait a a month or so.... but it's in the works..

Robb, yeah man, getting out, i did my 5 years, made E-5 in three, busted my hump and earned my keep.. now it's time for me to end my professional relationship with the Enlisted side of the Navy.. looking to finish an Aerospace Engineering Degree from The University of Maryland, and maybe get back in with NAVAIR... currently have some connections there, and, God willing i'll be working at NAS Pax. :cool:

Pierre, replied brother. thanks so much :D

Don, and Philip, agreed, med's are over prescribed, and not what I need.

To everyone, just feeling like I'm able to "talk" about it here in this thread is huge for me... The loss isn't as painful as the feeling of losing what I had given so much to. As dumb as it may seem, this is not the loss of life, it's the loss of my soul mate, my best friend, my fiance..(just a break up). I had let go of so much after I moved to Jax because it was easier to call her, and love her, than it was to reach out and make new friends.... so she slowly became everything, and i began to seek my strength and identity in Jenna.. I had slowly let her take priority over Christ in my life, and that's where it went south..... and that's why it's so hard... Jenna had become my strength.. and I lost sight of me... first I lost the guy I used to be... and subsequently, I lost her.

The strange thing is she's not gone for good, she's in Maryland.. waiting for me to find myself again.. will we be together when I get home? honestly I'm not concerned with that. I'm concerned with finding my identity and strength in Jesus, because that's where I find true Joy and life.. and that's where I find healing.. not in some anti-depressant pills. feeling so much better just being able to share that with "someone" :D :D

** I know i mentioned some spiritual type stuff, please don't delete this.. i'm just letting my heart speak **
 
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You're not alone!

Ian,

As you can see by the responses, there is a lot of caring here in this Vans family. A lot of us have been through tough times as well. And I can also vouch for just how real your symptoms are.

I went through a very hurtful divorce many years ago and began having a lot of anxiety issues that lasted for a while. I'm an airline pilot, so any kind of meds were absolutely not an option for me. Fortunately for me, I was raised in the church (my father was a minister), and always had that foundation to fall back on. Talking to a minister, getting involved with a church based singles group, Bible studies, prayer (and lots of it!) are great ways to battle what's going on inside you!

Physical exercise is also terrific for the mind. You might even try or ask about vitamin supplements (B complex?).

I originally fell in love with airplanes when I was a kid, and has always been my passion. Over the years, I had pursued my career goals of flying for a major airline and slowly grew away from small planes. After going through my rough times, I started hanging around little airports again, and rediscovered that passion. Started renting airplanes, started going to places like Oshkosh and Sun-n-Fun, and before I knew it, was off to the races!

Take advantage of Jacksonville. I'm sure there is a great EAA chapter there that you could start hanging out with.

Absolutely,....Absolutely... Absolutely!! GO...TO...SUN-N-FUN!! You will not regret it! You might even try going for a few days and camping there. You will meet a lot of like minded people, and you WILL have a blast! Guaranteed!
That is better than a year's supply of meds!

Order the preview kit from Vans, attend a building clinic ( at Sun-n-Fun as well), and finally, order that tail kit!

Sometimes in life, doors may close so that others will open. This is most likely true for you! Hang in there Ian, you have more friends than you know!:)
 
I feel your pain. I get down if I don't fly. It's my reliese. I recently had my airplane down for about 4 months, no flying, my wife wanted me to rent a cessna, I said no way. I got the new motor and now it's catch up time. I've flown it over 40 hrs since I got back in the saddle, that was January15. I missed flying yesterday, snow and high winds, low clouds.

I won't take meds for anything. I find ways to cope with the ailments I have. One of the best is to walk all I can, eat good, drink a lot of water. I get one of those big pop glasses at the convenient store and put water in it and have it in the center section of my truck. I don't drink much before I fly, but afterward, I drink the whole thing down on my way back to the shop. OH one last thing, I have my wife of 31 years. We talk all the time, she is my shrink. Very nice to vent to someone. Always keep a possitive mind set.
 
If you feel stressed, down, anxious, or even tired, pleased don't get behind the controls of an aircraft. It's not an antidote, it's a potentially lethal machine that can jeopardize your health and the health of others. There are very few medical issues today that the FAA will permanently ground you on, including depression. Sure, if you're taking some meds, you can't fly. Don't you want to fix the problem? Most pilots have heard of the acronym IMSAFE for determining fitness for flight. Wish everyone paid attention to it.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Sorry to hear you're having some struggles. You will get through them. Remember that how we deal with your troubles helps define who we are.

As others have said, health comes first. Depression is tricky. A lot of people don't take it seriously. They would say that if you're not bleeding, you're not sick, right? :confused: Frustrating.... Don't pay attention to that attitude, it's not helpful. Be honest about how you are doing and what you need. If you don't tell your doctors what's going on, they can't help you.

As for the meds: Unfortunately, the FAA must approve all anti-depressants on a case-by-case basis. No exceptions. You cannot legally use your medical unless you have approval for those meds. You can fly as a sport pilot if you meet the self-certification requirements, which have been discussed elsewhere at great length; suffice it to say that the standards for 3rd class medicals and sport pilot self-certification are different.

Your medical is "at risk" if you try to renew it while you are on the meds. The AME and/or FAA will fail you since these are non-approved meds. You can try and get pre-certification from the FAA before you renew your medical - they have added this procedure so that pilots can find out if they are going to get approved prior to going to the AME. I'd call a consultant that works on this issue.

Now ... the question of whether you can safely fly while taking such meds is a totally different matter. Legal is not the same as safe - there are legal things that are unsafe and also safe things that are not legal. You should ask your doctor about your fitness to fly. My guess is that most people taking anti-depressants are fine - they drive cars, raise children, hold normal jobs, and probably some of them fly for a living. Each combination of person and med produices different side effects. You need to discuss the issue with your doctors and decide if you are fit to fly and get some experience on how the med affects you (at least a few weeks) before you think about flying. I won't advise you on what's legal (I don't even play an attorney on TV), but I will say that you should carefully consider if / how you plan to continue flying.

Remember that flying is both inherently dangerous and highly rewarding mentally. Be safe but remember that flying will help your attitude and recovery. I started flying quickly between rounds of chemo last year and had been cleared by my doctor, and that was really, really helpful in keeping my spirits up. If I flew on a medical, I would have needed to wait several more months to get cleared to return to flight. I had no concerns about my abilities and actually had a good BFR just 2 weeks after restarting flying.

Fly safe, be well.

TODR
 
Lightning,

I went through a pretty rough patch about 7 years ago and turned to the medical profession for some help. They seeemed to only have one idea: take pills.

Next, I sought out a psychologist who provided some very helpful counseling and also gave me Xanax to be taken as needed, mostly to get my sleep patterns back on track. Once your sleep patterns get out of whack, your thinking goes to heck, which in turn causes more lost sleep, etc.

The other thing I did was forced myself to exercise regularly. I began weight training first thing every morning and also went surfing and cycling as often as possible. The exercise really made a difference. I just put some headphones on with some loud music and went at it.

The best thing the counselor did for me was convince me that he'd seen lots of guys with the same problem and they all recovered. This was very reassuring. I see that others have given you lots of great advice already and I'm sure you'll be feeling better real soon.
 
Ian,

Separating from active duty was definitely a stressful, anxiety producing life-transition. Shedding that blanket of "the known"...the security and the camraderie...hit me and everyone I know that has served. Add to that your personal relationship hardships, and it's a lot to go through. But know this: there is life "outside"...you will survive and thrive! No one works harder than our Sailors, Airman, Soldiers and Marines, and applying that work ethic will take you very far in life. Family Services has much to offer, and there's no shame in touching base with them...been there, and they showed me that what I was feeling at that trasnistion time was quite normal. But the decompression of moving forward will also be wonderful, so fear not, Shipmate!

I stayed in via the Reserves and found the same camraderie, and many life-long friends. I'm sure the Navy would love to keep you in that capacity, so may be an option. Of course, college and building an airplane will keep you plenty busy, and mobilization is out there, so there's a lot to consider in that decsion...but don't stress on that, the answers will come, and if it's time to break away for a while, enjoy being Joe, the Airplane Builder! :) And if you end up back in as a Naval Aviator, great stuff!!

As others have said, having a father-son project like an RV will be the best of the best!

The trasnsition may feel intimidating, but your hard work and service are truly appreciated, and you've certainly earned some liberty! I'm certain you'll look back and smile. Though it's personal journey in ways, many have walked the path, and you are not alone!

Thanks again very much for your service, and all the very best!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Excellent thread

I have suffered from the dreaded depression in the past (divorce, and emigrated at the same time with no friends in the USA and I'm culturally very different).

Depression is real, it can be a killer..But a lot of will power/faith/determination can avoid you having to get on the pills too.

I went the pill free route and I'm glad I did.

Webb quoted Winston Churchill..Did you you know he suffered greatly from depression?..Look what he achieved!

There is a geat life on the other side...I get to counsel a lot of people who are where I was once and that is incredibly rewarding.

Hang in there, take one day at a time....keep busy, refuse to entertain the negative thoughts.

Its rough but it can be overcome!

All the very best

Frank
 
TODR and Terry,

I do love flying, but please understand I'm not out to be unsafe. I haven't been behind the controls of a plane, as PIC, since this happened. I know how distracting mental anguish, and emotional depression can be.

I would love to be flying right now, but I know what I'm going thru, and have therefore grounded myself for a little while. I do love flying but it's not going to be my "healing grace". So it's on a small break while I deal with the truly important things in life.

Bob, I have never been more excited about getting out of the Navy, going home to close friends and family.
 
Ian:
My post was an attempt to reach some fellow Van-Heads who inferred that they might be flying while less than 100%, which is certainly not a good idea. Even though I have absolutely no background in medicine, I do have a couple of daughters who do: No 1 is Flight Surgeon for VP45 out of Jacksonville, and the other is a mental health specialist (pre doctorate) and married to a soldier soon to be in the middle east. I'll be in Jacksonville for a week in late April - if you're interested, I can probably get you a little stick time in my 9A (I know, it's not an 8). Feel free to send me a PM.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
NO WAY!!! You're daughter is Leah Kohler?!?!?!? what a small world!!!

hahahaha i just talked to her a few days ago about getting my busted left collarbone fixed!! she's my flight surgeon!! :D


btw, she is a beautiful lady. :cool:
 
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For Lucky333 re Sleep Apnea

John O asked...tell of your experiences / medical issues with sleep apnea.

John - - my response was getting a bit lengthy (especiall for one a bit obiquely related to the thread), so I sent it to you in a PM.

If anyone on the board is interested in sleep apnea symptoms and treatment, and getting the FAA med cert reinstated, just send me a note, and I'll forward the same note to you.

Regards - - Tom


.
 
When I get depressed I go flying, if I don't go flying often enough I get depressed............... I wonder if I can get a DR. to prescribe flying so I can get my health insurance to cover my flying expenses?
 
TODR and Terry,

I do love flying, but please understand I'm not out to be unsafe. I haven't been behind the controls of a plane, as PIC, since this happened. I know how distracting mental anguish, and emotional depression can be.

I would love to be flying right now, but I know what I'm going thru, and have therefore grounded myself for a little while. I do love flying but it's not going to be my "healing grace". So it's on a small break while I deal with the truly important things in life.
Glad you understand where you need to be. First things first, indeed. Flying will be there for you when you are ready. :)

TODR
 
Hey Ian,
God Bless you and I will keep you in my prayers, when you get back call me we will do some flying:D
You could probably even get lunch outta me:D
 
Kirk, you're to good to me!!

you met Jenna, heck you took her in her 1st RV flight and flew her first aerobatics!!
i don't know how I can still be so devastated... I talked to her a few hours ago, and she told me she had started seeing someone... she's been seeing this dude for 2 weeks... WE'VE ONLY BEEN BROKEN UP FOR 3 1/2 WEEKS :eek: do you know how painful it is to feel like you gave your everything, and she could turn around and in less than 2 weeks have forgotten about the love we shared and be with someone else?

it makes me feel so weak, it makes me feel so worthless, it feels like when I give everything it's so insignificant that it barely impacts someone else...

Now, I know that I shouldn't measure my self worth based on someone else's actions.. but it's so hard to separate the two..

this may sound weird to yall, and maybe it's my strange way of trying to identify my source of pain... but I feel like I wish i'd been hit by an IED, or shot or had my arm ripped off.... at least then I could see my source of pain.. i could fight it, i could DO something about it.
 
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Jeez Ian,
I feel your pain... I have been there before, not that it helps but I will make you a deal. You get back to MD we will take a good long RV/Fishing trip and blow that stuff out of your system. I know it might be of little value butit helped me to have something to look forward too. So I propose a RV trip to the outer banks and maybe a fishing trip. I might be able to snag some other Rvers into going make a real fun trip out of it:D Some good flying...a couple hours swapping lies and fighting fish
Come on:D just say the word and I will start planning:)
Hang in there brother one day at a time
 
webb, following some great advice...

also planning a trip to visit the family, but "operational commitment" says not yet, wait a a month or so.... but it's in the works..

well after this most recent development, I called my LPO, and told him how hard it was, and that I would have a leave chit sitting on his desk tomorrow morning. I apologized, and said, "No offense Jim, but this shop, VP-45, and an AMI means far less to me that my own health. I'm taking leave, sorry to leave you short handed, I know you need me, but right now I'll be of no benefit to the shop till I can take some time to heal. I'm going spend some time with my family." he agreed and said he'd sign the chit when he gets in tomorrow morning.

I'm going home. :)


but first i'm gonna go over to RV8180's house and let them pour out their love. thanks Roy. :D
 
:D

I really appreciate all the responses on this thread and all the PM's. So much encouragement. thank yall so much.

Roy, it's so good to just let his love flow from his word. :D
 
.. looking to finish an Aerospace Engineering Degree from The University of Maryland, and maybe get back in with NAVAIR... currently have some connections there, and, God willing i'll be working at NAS Pax. :cool:
I may run into to you sometime in the future. In my job I am currently working directly with folks at NAVAIR in Pax. They are doing a lot of hiring and have quite a group of new engineers. Depending on the Obama budget, there are some new, exciting things coming for NAVAIR to work on.
 
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