Van's Air Force
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sika windscreen
- Thread starter grover
- Start date
I glassed and carbon fiber coated per the instructions over the top of the windscreen. I used rubber spacers to initially bond the windscreen and then pulled out the spacers and filled in the gaps while making a nice wide fillet. 200 hours in all temp extremes and no problems.
FM
RV-8 391FM
IO-360, WW-151, triple GRT (one in back seat panel)
GNS-430, Digiflight II
FM
RV-8 391FM
IO-360, WW-151, triple GRT (one in back seat panel)
GNS-430, Digiflight II
I was planning on leaving it bare at the top, with just a black paint band to keep the UV off the back of the Sika and primer. It would look so cool.
I'm not sure about the bottom where it contacts the fuse, because I'm not too sure about the fit back at the roll bar.
I was only going to fiberglass it if the windshield doesn't match up with the canopy.
I don't worry about the strength of the Sika bond. But I do worry about the fiberglass being bonded to the windshield and the fuse, when the Sika instructions indicate the need for flexibility, hence the spacers.
Any ideas? I have not installed the windshield yet (I'm doing wiring now) and I'm open for good ideas.
I'm not sure about the bottom where it contacts the fuse, because I'm not too sure about the fit back at the roll bar.
I was only going to fiberglass it if the windshield doesn't match up with the canopy.
I don't worry about the strength of the Sika bond. But I do worry about the fiberglass being bonded to the windshield and the fuse, when the Sika instructions indicate the need for flexibility, hence the spacers.
Any ideas? I have not installed the windshield yet (I'm doing wiring now) and I'm open for good ideas.
Well here it is a year later;
I just got the windshield SIKA'd on. I ended up using spacers across the roll bar to allow the desired flex joint and match the slider canopy. That went real well. I elected to let the windshield sit loosely on the fuselage skin, and sat in the cockpit, pumping SIKA 295UV into the joint, which I faired with popsickle sticks. (all surface prep carefully completed)
Then I filled the roll bar joint between the spacers, climbed out and slid the canopy shut. After that I just clamped on the temporary side fairing strips and started pushing the windshield around until I got 'the fit'.
I was quite suprised that this turned out to be the best fit, better than any of the trial fits. I guess the SIKA supports the Plexi more evenly than just the spacers and clamps?
Now I just gotta keep my hands off it until it sets....then pull the spacers and finish all the joints.
I just got the windshield SIKA'd on. I ended up using spacers across the roll bar to allow the desired flex joint and match the slider canopy. That went real well. I elected to let the windshield sit loosely on the fuselage skin, and sat in the cockpit, pumping SIKA 295UV into the joint, which I faired with popsickle sticks. (all surface prep carefully completed)
Then I filled the roll bar joint between the spacers, climbed out and slid the canopy shut. After that I just clamped on the temporary side fairing strips and started pushing the windshield around until I got 'the fit'.
I was quite suprised that this turned out to be the best fit, better than any of the trial fits. I guess the SIKA supports the Plexi more evenly than just the spacers and clamps?
Now I just gotta keep my hands off it until it sets....then pull the spacers and finish all the joints.
I'd be interested in photos if you have any.
Bill Wightman
Well Known Member
What is "Sika Flex" ?
Could someone give me a basic explanation of what this stuff is? Why does it work well to bond windscreens / canopies to the airframe? Does it remain flexible after cure?
I need a good way to bond my windscreen to the fuselage (RV8) and have some gaps to fill.
Could someone give me a basic explanation of what this stuff is? Why does it work well to bond windscreens / canopies to the airframe? Does it remain flexible after cure?
I need a good way to bond my windscreen to the fuselage (RV8) and have some gaps to fill.
* Sika Flex 285UV Technical Specifications
* Density</B>: 10 lbs per gal
* Tack Free Time</B>: 50 min approximately
* Rate of Cure</B>: 24 hours
* Shore A Hardness (ASTM D2240) </B>: 35-40 at 77 deg F
* Elongation at Break (ASTM D412) </B>: >500 percent
* Tensile Strength (ASTM D412)</B>: Approx 450 PSI
* Lap Shear Strength (ASTM D1002) </B>: Approx 250 PSI
* E Modulus at 100% Elongation</B>: 70 PSI
* Application Temperature</B>: 40F to 95 F
* Service Range</B>: -40F to 195 F
* Color</B>: Black, White
* Sandable, paintable and is waterproof
* Shelf life: 12 months
* Density</B>: 10 lbs per gal
* Tack Free Time</B>: 50 min approximately
* Rate of Cure</B>: 24 hours
* Shore A Hardness (ASTM D2240) </B>: 35-40 at 77 deg F
* Elongation at Break (ASTM D412) </B>: >500 percent
* Tensile Strength (ASTM D412)</B>: Approx 450 PSI
* Lap Shear Strength (ASTM D1002) </B>: Approx 250 PSI
* E Modulus at 100% Elongation</B>: 70 PSI
* Application Temperature</B>: 40F to 95 F
* Service Range</B>: -40F to 195 F
* Color</B>: Black, White
* Sandable, paintable and is waterproof
* Shelf life: 12 months
Guy Prevost
Well Known Member
I glassed over mine and am happy with the results.
This thread has some information that I found useful.
Sikaflex-related threads should probably have their own forum in the "never ending debates" section, since its use is somewhat controversial.
I think the debate about strength and durability is pretty much over.
SIKA applied canopies are not falling off, cracking at an above average rate or experiencing any new negative phenominae.
However, they are easier to install.
The down sides?
1) It will be heavier than VAN's way.
2) It will cost A-LOT more. I just paid $123.41 for enough product and brushes + masking tape to install the windshield. Now admittedly, I only used half the brushes and a small amount of the tape, but you can't know ahead of time how much?
I bought my supplies @ Fisheries Supply Inc. in Seattle. They stock it on the self.
SIKA 226 cleaner $13.18
SIKA 209D primer $56.21
SIKAFLEX 295UV $14.48 I bought 2 tubes, 10.5 Oz per tube. I used both.
The limited shelf life means you have to time all of your work to go together at about the same time, or if you are dissorganised like me you end up buying it 3 separate times. $$ OUCH!
SIKA applied canopies are not falling off, cracking at an above average rate or experiencing any new negative phenominae.
However, they are easier to install.
The down sides?
1) It will be heavier than VAN's way.
2) It will cost A-LOT more. I just paid $123.41 for enough product and brushes + masking tape to install the windshield. Now admittedly, I only used half the brushes and a small amount of the tape, but you can't know ahead of time how much?
I bought my supplies @ Fisheries Supply Inc. in Seattle. They stock it on the self.
SIKA 226 cleaner $13.18
SIKA 209D primer $56.21
SIKAFLEX 295UV $14.48 I bought 2 tubes, 10.5 Oz per tube. I used both.
The limited shelf life means you have to time all of your work to go together at about the same time, or if you are dissorganised like me you end up buying it 3 separate times. $$ OUCH!
Gary Bricker
Well Known Member
No holes to drill
The biggest reason is no holes to drill in the canopy
The biggest reason is no holes to drill in the canopy
I used one tube to bond the windshield, then yesterday I bonded the right skirt to the canopy, used a half tube.
I bonded the canopy on the frame a couple of years ago...!
The right skirt fit well. I used my drop light to shine thru the skirt and drilled the canopy skirt into the tube frame in only the few places that needed to be pulled in. You could say it was a shadowgraph drill jig.
Once the skirt was cleco'd in place, I trimmed around the edges until I had both 'the fit' and 'the look' I wanted. I used the rubber shim to get the right curve at the fwd fuse.
The tail of the skirt wouldn't clamp smoothly, I ended up leaving a small tab past the centerline. I drilled a 1/4" hole in it to hook a bungee cord, which I used to pull the skirt into position, by trying different angles and tensions. Perfect.
After final sanding of edges, the SIKA cleaner and primer process, then I applied a generous bead to the canopy, and flatened it with my finger. Then a tall bead on the tubes of the frame.
I cleco'd the skirt on, and pushed on it until the SIKA extruded at the canopy joint and I got the joint thickness I wanted. Voids were filled by mess..I pumped it in with a blob on my fingertip. Then the wife went around with a rag and a razor blade, cleaning the SIKA off the skirt. After that I pulled the edge tape (electrical tape) and got a 'perfect' skirt to canopy join.
I used a lot of blue nitrile gloves. I made a mess reaching across from the left side thru to 'fair' the SIKA at the canopy frame tubes. I should have used less, just enough to firmly attach the skirt, then follow up later with a better looking application. I'll do that, but some of the first application will need to be removed or show thru. When I put on the left side skirt, I won't be able to reach across from the right because the right skirt is in the way!
If you check out my link, you can see a pic of it setting up, cleco'd an bungeed in place. This AM, 9 hours after setting it, the SIKA is firm in thin areas, but still squishy in the thicker beads. Temp is about 60+ F was 78% relative humidity last night. I won't disturb it until tomorrow, 36 hours set up.
I bonded the canopy on the frame a couple of years ago...!
The right skirt fit well. I used my drop light to shine thru the skirt and drilled the canopy skirt into the tube frame in only the few places that needed to be pulled in. You could say it was a shadowgraph drill jig.
Once the skirt was cleco'd in place, I trimmed around the edges until I had both 'the fit' and 'the look' I wanted. I used the rubber shim to get the right curve at the fwd fuse.
The tail of the skirt wouldn't clamp smoothly, I ended up leaving a small tab past the centerline. I drilled a 1/4" hole in it to hook a bungee cord, which I used to pull the skirt into position, by trying different angles and tensions. Perfect.
After final sanding of edges, the SIKA cleaner and primer process, then I applied a generous bead to the canopy, and flatened it with my finger. Then a tall bead on the tubes of the frame.
I cleco'd the skirt on, and pushed on it until the SIKA extruded at the canopy joint and I got the joint thickness I wanted. Voids were filled by mess..I pumped it in with a blob on my fingertip. Then the wife went around with a rag and a razor blade, cleaning the SIKA off the skirt. After that I pulled the edge tape (electrical tape) and got a 'perfect' skirt to canopy join.
I used a lot of blue nitrile gloves. I made a mess reaching across from the left side thru to 'fair' the SIKA at the canopy frame tubes. I should have used less, just enough to firmly attach the skirt, then follow up later with a better looking application. I'll do that, but some of the first application will need to be removed or show thru. When I put on the left side skirt, I won't be able to reach across from the right because the right skirt is in the way!
If you check out my link, you can see a pic of it setting up, cleco'd an bungeed in place. This AM, 9 hours after setting it, the SIKA is firm in thin areas, but still squishy in the thicker beads. Temp is about 60+ F was 78% relative humidity last night. I won't disturb it until tomorrow, 36 hours set up.
jdeas
Well Known Member
Purchasing Silka 295UV/primer/cleaner
It appears that the primer is the most expensive part of this process both in cost and shipping.
Did anyone else get a $23 hazmat charge from UPS to get this stuff? I found 295UV for under $10 (fresh) but the overall cost will still be over $120 for what I think I need for an RV7 tipup.
It appears that the primer is the most expensive part of this process both in cost and shipping.
Did anyone else get a $23 hazmat charge from UPS to get this stuff? I found 295UV for under $10 (fresh) but the overall cost will still be over $120 for what I think I need for an RV7 tipup.
DGlaeser
Well Known Member
no hazmat charge...
I ordered mine from Jamestown Distributors (but this was almost 2 years ago) and there were no hazmat charges involved. I don't remember what shipping method was used, but it was probably UPS.
I got 2 tubes of sealant and one can each of cleaner and primer, and it was more than enough.
I ordered mine from Jamestown Distributors (but this was almost 2 years ago) and there were no hazmat charges involved. I don't remember what shipping method was used, but it was probably UPS.
I got 2 tubes of sealant and one can each of cleaner and primer, and it was more than enough.
Last edited:
DGlaeser
Well Known Member
Search here...
I'm not aware of any such materials available, since it's an 'unapproved alternative' way of attachment. There are a number of discussions and pictures that have been posted here that should point you in the right direction.
clam
Well Known Member
295UV vs 552,
Seems like this nut has been cracked, but has anyone familiar with the Sikaflex method of canopy attach inquired on the use of the 552 compound? Was thinking of giving the engineers a buzz to discuss, unless someone has already done that. Any thoughts out there?
The 552 "Areas of Application" sound a bit more applicable for canopy to frame adhesion than does the 295.
Summarizing the respective PDS:
Description
Sikaflex?-552 is a low VOC, high
performance, elastic, gap-filling,
one-part, silane-terminated polymer
structural adhesive that cures on
exposure to atmospheric moisture to
form a durable elastomer. Sikaflex?-
552 contains no isocyanate or
solvent. Sikaflex?-552 is
manufactured in accordance with
the ISO 9001/ISO 14001 quality
assurance system and the
Responsible Care Program.
Product Benefits
- AAMA 805.2-94 certified
- Bonds well to a wide variety of
substrates without the need
for special pre-treatment
- Resistant to UV radiation
- Resistant to aging and
weathering
- Capable of withstanding high
dynamic stresses
- Very low VOC content
- Silicone and PVC-free
- Isocyanate-free
- High recovery
- Elastic
- Low odor
Areas of Application
Sikaflex?-552 is suitable for
structural joints that will be
subjected to dynamic stresses.
Sikaflex?-552 bonds well to a wide
variety of substrates and is suitable
for making permanent high strength
elastic adhesive seals. Suitable
substrate materials include wood,
metals, metal primers and paint
coatings (two-part systems), ceramic
materials, plastics and glass.
?????Seek manufacturer?s advice before
using on transparent materials that
are prone to stress cracking. ?????
Description
Sikaflex?-295UV is a one-component
polyurethane adhesive/sealant
specifically formulated for bonding acrylic
and polycarbonate windows and
hatches. It is also an excellent color
stable, non-chalking sealant for general
marine sealing.
Product Benefits
- UV resistant, no cracking or chalking
- Salt water resistant
- Fast tack-free time
- Paintable and sandable
- Stable
- Bonds and seals in one step
- Initial load bearing capacity
- High thixotropy/good gap filling
properties
- Non-yellowing
- Non-chalking
Areas of Application
Sikaflex?-295 UV black is intended to be
used as an adhesive and/or sealant in
bonding applications for polycarbonate
windows and acrylic (PMMA) windows.
Black: Use in conjunction with Sika?-
Cleaner 226 and Sika? Primer 209N.
Prior to use, always refer to installation
guide available at www.sikaindustry.com/
ipd-marine-window-295.
Seems like this nut has been cracked, but has anyone familiar with the Sikaflex method of canopy attach inquired on the use of the 552 compound? Was thinking of giving the engineers a buzz to discuss, unless someone has already done that. Any thoughts out there?
The 552 "Areas of Application" sound a bit more applicable for canopy to frame adhesion than does the 295.
Summarizing the respective PDS:
Description
Sikaflex?-552 is a low VOC, high
performance, elastic, gap-filling,
one-part, silane-terminated polymer
structural adhesive that cures on
exposure to atmospheric moisture to
form a durable elastomer. Sikaflex?-
552 contains no isocyanate or
solvent. Sikaflex?-552 is
manufactured in accordance with
the ISO 9001/ISO 14001 quality
assurance system and the
Responsible Care Program.
Product Benefits
- AAMA 805.2-94 certified
- Bonds well to a wide variety of
substrates without the need
for special pre-treatment
- Resistant to UV radiation
- Resistant to aging and
weathering
- Capable of withstanding high
dynamic stresses
- Very low VOC content
- Silicone and PVC-free
- Isocyanate-free
- High recovery
- Elastic
- Low odor
Areas of Application
Sikaflex?-552 is suitable for
structural joints that will be
subjected to dynamic stresses.
Sikaflex?-552 bonds well to a wide
variety of substrates and is suitable
for making permanent high strength
elastic adhesive seals. Suitable
substrate materials include wood,
metals, metal primers and paint
coatings (two-part systems), ceramic
materials, plastics and glass.
?????Seek manufacturer?s advice before
using on transparent materials that
are prone to stress cracking. ?????
Description
Sikaflex?-295UV is a one-component
polyurethane adhesive/sealant
specifically formulated for bonding acrylic
and polycarbonate windows and
hatches. It is also an excellent color
stable, non-chalking sealant for general
marine sealing.
Product Benefits
- UV resistant, no cracking or chalking
- Salt water resistant
- Fast tack-free time
- Paintable and sandable
- Stable
- Bonds and seals in one step
- Initial load bearing capacity
- High thixotropy/good gap filling
properties
- Non-yellowing
- Non-chalking
Areas of Application
Sikaflex?-295 UV black is intended to be
used as an adhesive and/or sealant in
bonding applications for polycarbonate
windows and acrylic (PMMA) windows.
Black: Use in conjunction with Sika?-
Cleaner 226 and Sika? Primer 209N.
Prior to use, always refer to installation
guide available at www.sikaindustry.com/
ipd-marine-window-295.
That's very interesting.
I have areas on my canopy and windshield roll bar that I would like to add some more sealant. There are some 'thin' areas (probably just in my mind) and some areas that I would like to cover with an additional layer for cosmetic reasons.
I wonder if the 552 would over-coat the 226UV. The 226UV has been on about a month and the primer-cleaner is now officialy 'old'.
But if 552 does not need special pre-treatment?
I have areas on my canopy and windshield roll bar that I would like to add some more sealant. There are some 'thin' areas (probably just in my mind) and some areas that I would like to cover with an additional layer for cosmetic reasons.
I wonder if the 552 would over-coat the 226UV. The 226UV has been on about a month and the primer-cleaner is now officialy 'old'.
But if 552 does not need special pre-treatment?
