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New fuel tank service bulletin from Vans

N162RV

N162RV

Active Member
Vans has just issued a service bulletin for all RVs except the -10 to comply with BEFORE next flight. Go to there web site and check it out...

It was time for an annual anyway.
 
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Typical...

...I only just received my wing kit with my pre-built fuel tanks from Evan, and now I have to take them apart!!! Job for later methinks. I've printed the bulletin and I'll staple it to the box that the tanks are in so I don't forget...
I feel for you guys that have to do this on your flyers, especially those that had plans...
 
rv8ch said:
Here's the link: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf

Anyone know how to drill a hole in an AN nut for safety wire?
Click to expand...

Use a 52 through 55 size drill, and best if clamped to a drill press table. If not, start the drill perpendicular to the flat and then angle it across once you have an indentation. Wear safety glasses! Small drills break easily with any sideways pressure.

Jekyll
 
Safety wire holes in nuts

You can buy a jig that will let you drill most any hex fitting for safety wire-------or probably borrow one at the local a/p facility.

I havent checked out the service note, so if this has to be done on the a/c, a jig probably wont help-------unlless you make your own.

take a piece of metal same thickness as the nut, drill a hole perpendicular to one edge, and cut a notch into the piece that intersects the hole,that will let one corner of the nut fit into it, just hold in place and drill-----------SLOWLY.

Practice on something that isn't flying first.

Mike
 
Just read it real quickly, but it looks like EVERY RV will have to take off their fuel tank cover plates (and the senders) to do this, whether or not they tightened the nut. Wow. Lots of bummed out RVers, I'm sure, not least of which is ME! We'll see if that cork really does make it easier to get off. Wonder if this is just the result of one person's pick up tube falling off or multiple incidents?
 
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Well, I knew this but forgot. I called two IA's to verify. This is NOT an AD. Until it is, you don't have to do it. If you are sure these fittings are tight, don't worry about it, you don't have to stop and do this. This is just to cover their butt.
 
My wings are not attached yet, so it makes sense to do it. As long as I can get the Proseal under the cover plates to let loose. I guess we'll now be able to answer the age-old debate on which is better, Proseal or Proseal+cork. :)
 
JACKR said:
This is just to cover their butt.
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The comment in the SB about how this plane that crashed (anyone know the NTSB report?) had the odd problem of "couldn't pull gas from the tank when less than 1/3 full" also supports this statement.

I think I'll be doing mine the next annual or sometime when I see that the weather is going to be crap for a week. I'm really not looking forward to getting that cover off with only three inches of access. Ugh.
 
Logical ?

Extending this argument further, why not make safetying of ALL AN fittings mandatory then ? Like from the fuel pump to the carb ? etc etc. When properly torqued, these fittings should never come loose. Maybe just because this one is out of sight ? I know in my setup, the carb fuel connection is out of sight unless I remove the cowl for every preflight so maybe it really should be safetied ?
 
You can probably get the same effect as safetying by prosealing the fittings together. This could be done through the hole for the sender unit.
I also agree that it is a SB, not an AD. Big difference. Besides, considering that these planes are experimental, there is a question as to whether ADs and SBs ever need to be complied with on an experimental plane in the first place.
However, safety being the biggest consideration, I'll safety mine. (Luckily I haven't prosealed the access plates to the tanks, yet.
 
Service Bulletins are not required.

I agree with you guys, and I've been through this several times at my work (an aviation company). Service bulletins for aircraft operated under Part 91, regardless of how they are named (mandatory, required, optional, etc.) are issued by the manufacturer and are advisory only. The only time you HAVE to do something is if an AD is issued by the Airworthiness Authority (in this case the FAA). Since it's issued by Van's - you get to decide.

Hope that helps...
 
fuel exhaustion with 1/3 full

If the engine hesitated or stopped when the tank was 1/3 full(and had later been confirmed visually on the ground), that would be a very good reason to ground the aircraft until the fuel system problem was figured out. Same goes if there was a spark problem or air inlet problem.

I'm not expert but when it comes to internal combustion in an airplane engine, 2 out of 3... IS bad!

N520TX has a good point: why don't we have to safety wire ALL compression fittings, including brakes?
 
N520TX said:
Extending this argument further, why not make safetying of ALL AN fittings mandatory then ? Like from the fuel pump to the carb ? etc etc. When properly torqued, these fittings should never come loose.
Click to expand...

Exactly, sounds like one (or more) builders didn't torque the fitting properly.
I can see where this could apply more to the flop tube installation instead
of the fixed pickup since it's moving around in there a bit.
 
Regarding getting the cover plates off that are prosealed on. I had to do this due to a leaky BNC connector (capacitance senders). I did not use the cork gasket. Once you get a foothold under the cover plate, you will be pleasantly surprized how well the cover plate peels off. I was also surprized how little of the proseal is actually under the cover plate where it overlaps the tank root rib access hole. Once you screw that puppy down, it really expresses the proseal out from under there. The "gasket" that you form at the edge of the plate is what apparently forms a proper seal.

I sure do like the notion that proseal would do the same as a safety wire. As I recall, that was the first AN fitting that I worked with. Being inexperienced, I thought it would be a good idea to smear.....you guessed it.....proseal over the fitting after tightening it down.


Needless to say, I'm leaving mine alone! :cool:


Regards,
 
If I do decide to open mine up, I'm just gonna smear some proseal on the fitting instead of trying to drill that microscopic little hole. Furthermore, if this fitting rattled loose then wouldn't you expect all the other fittings that are exposed to much more heat, vibration and pressure to come loose too. I think it's pretty obvious that somebody forgot to tighten things up. On a related note, I notice that no anti-rotation bracket is used on the floptube. I didn't think about it while building, but now wonder how I will tighten the fitting without causing the bulkhead elbow to rotate in the root rib. Anybody have any experience with this?

Regarding removing the cover, I've never tried it but I think either a heat gun or one of those big jumbo soldering irons that plumbers have might be very helpful.
 
szicree said:
Regarding removing the cover, I've never tried it but I think either a heat gun or one of those big jumbo soldering irons that plumbers have might be very helpful.
Click to expand...

Some will disagree with me, but once I put fuel in a tank, personally I wouldn't attack it with anything hot. Any welder can give you horror stories about "empty" tanks exploding as fuel vapors come seaping out.
 
rv6builder48138 said:
Anyone had any luck in removing pro-seal without resorting to radiation treatment? :confused:
Click to expand...

Supposeably, a plastic butter knife is suppose to work well. I don't know, but guess I'll find out.

I know, that on my tanks, those nuts are already pro-sealed to the inspection plate, in addition to the clamp that holds the tube.

L.Adamson
 
I just happened to be working on these parts and the fuel pick up tube was on my bench when I got home, so......
Anyway, I drilled one fitting already and it took about 2 minutes. Remember, these are aluminum fittings, so they drill easily.
I used a #52 drill bit, started the hole perpendiculsr to the surface, then angled it and drilled on through. Let the bit do the work, if you press too hard on the drill you could break the bit. I just held it up against a piece of wood on the bench, rather than put it in a vise. Came out great.
If you happen to drill into the threads, I don't think that would be a problem since the threads don't actually make the seal on a flared fitting like this.
 
painless said:
Once you get a foothold under the cover plate, you will be pleasantly surprized how well the cover plate peels off.
Click to expand...

Wow, It must be really difficult if you need your feet! :D
Jekyll
 
JACKR said:
That pretty much screws the I39 Fly-IN...........I wanted to go to that :mad:
Click to expand...

Heck, it's a SB. I'd take care of mine at my next "down time".

Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7, Black Magic
 
jcoloccia said:
Some will disagree with me, but once I put fuel in a tank, personally I wouldn't attack it with anything hot. Any welder can give you horror stories about "empty" tanks exploding as fuel vapors come seaping out.
Click to expand...

I guess I was imagining doing my own tanks that have never been filled, but you make an awfully good point.
 
Next Thread

I can see it now. New Thread Next Week Reads: How can I get these fricking fuel tanks to stop leaking after complied with this S/B. :confused:

If it ain't broken... leave it alone! :D
 
I Prosealed also

painless said:
Being inexperienced, I thought it would be a good idea to smear.....you guessed it.....proseal over the fitting after tightening it down.


Needless to say, I'm leaving mine alone! :cool:


Regards,
Click to expand...
I did the same thing. I added a dab of Proseal on the fitting after tightening it down during construction of the tanks. I did not have to rip out my inspection plate to do it since I was able to go back and look at pictures. I'm up to over 700 pictures, and worth it given the ability to go back and look at something like this.
 
Before we get too wound up

Well, I knew this but forgot. I called two IA's to verify. This is NOT an AD. Until it is, you don't have to do it. If you are sure these fittings are tight, don't worry about it, you don't have to stop and do this. This is just to cover their butt.
Click to expand...


I haven't received any notification from Vans about a service bulletin on my RV-6.......................

How am I supposed to be liable for something that the kit supplier hasn't sent me a notice about? :rolleyes:

Sam Buchanan
 
Sam Buchanan said:
I haven't received any notification from Vans about a service bulletin on my RV-6.......................

How am I supposed to be liable for something that the kit supplier hasn't sent me a notice about? :rolleyes:

Sam Buchanan
Click to expand...

AMEN! We're done here...! One thing we need to remember is that Van's is the DESIGNER of the airplane kit. YOU Are the BUILDER. Nobody can ground your aircraft except YOU or the FAA. ;) Well let's include other LAW enforcement... :eek:

Oh, and my wife said I might add her to the list... :p
 
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My QB wings haven't been attached to the fuse yet so not only is it no big deal for me, I enjoy using this as an excuse to have a look inside the pre-built tanks anyway.

Having said that... this sounds like a total CYA on the part of Vans and I can understand that. It just seems funny that this situation, as far as I know, has only come up one time among the over 4000 RVs flying.

Statistically, I would have imagined that more than just one person would have forgotten to tighten those fittings, and there should actually be more reports of this problem than just the one.

So dang it, I recall there was a lot of Q&A a while back on whether to use the cork gaskets alone, cork with proseal, or proseal alone to install the covers. Now I have to go back and go through all that before reinstalling. Drat. :rolleyes:
 
Fuel Flow

Oh no!
I just put my wings on.
Well, I doubt they'll won't both fall of this week and if one does I'll just change to the other tank........... or one of the tip tanks................. and re-plan inflight.
Pete.
 
Loose fuel pickup prevention

Hi Guys,
A friend who has built 6 RVs says that you should proseal the threads and nut of the pickup tube and it'll NEVER come off.
Pierre
 
I prosealed all of that stuff during installation and am tempted to consider <rationalize?> the proseal as an alternate method of compliance...

In any case, my condition inspection is due pretty soon, so I guess I'll make a decision then. Pulling the tank access plates, modifying the pick-up's, and re-installing them should only be a day or two's work... <aargh>

I wonder if the sloshing of fuel in the tanks "works" the pick-up and creates a chance that the otherwise bulletproof AN hardware will come loose.
 
take a peek

I wonder if the sloshing of fuel in the tanks "works" the pick-up and creates a chance that the otherwise bulletproof AN hardware will come loose.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if some sort of borescope could be used to inspect the fitting through the fuel sump hole?? Gotta be something in the medical field that would give us a view through that little hole. :eek:

Sam Buchanan (720 trouble-free and leak-proof hours)
 
Fuel Tank Bulletin

I installed Van's Capacitance fuel quanity system and elected not to cut the access hole in the root ribs since they were not necessary. Now it looks like I will have to remove the tank to comply with this and I am just days from first flight. Bummer. May wait a while to comply. The idea of removing the tanks and cracking that brand new paint job and reprosealing after all of this and making a tank access plate and sealing it up just doesn't sound like any fun. I like the bore scope idea. I know they make one that could be used considering where I have seen them placed in the human body.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
I'm wondering if some sort of borescope could be used to inspect the fitting through the fuel sump hole?? Gotta be something in the medical field that would give us a view through that little hole. :eek:

Sam Buchanan (720 trouble-free and leak-proof hours)
Click to expand...

Just had a nasal endoscopy last week. It's a tube about 1/8 inch diameter that they thread up your nose and down into your voice box (not real fun). It's slightly angled at the end so they can rotate it and look around. It's even got it's own light source. It looked like the perfect tool to send though the sump hole.
 
What's different about the RV10?

N162RV said:
Vans has just issued a service bulletin for all RVs except the -10 to comply with BEFORE next flight.
Click to expand...
Just curious - anyone know how the -10 is different such that this service note does not apply to them?
 
I would think a way of testing the integrity of the fitting might be to drain the tanks to about 5 gallons and do a volume test with the boost pump. If that looked OK, you could further test by draining the tanks, remove the line at the tank, attach a syphon hose to the tank fitting, add several gallons of fuel, and see if the fuel can be syphoned out. A loose fitting would allow air in the pickup tube fitting and break the syphon.

Just a thought,

Roberta
 
Naw, this might work

I would think a way of testing the integrity of the fitting might be to drain the tanks to about 5 gallons and do a volume test with the boost pump. If that looked OK, you could further test by draining the tanks, remove the line at the tank, attach a syphon hose to the tank fitting, add several gallons of fuel, and see if the fuel can be syphoned out. A loose fitting would allow air in the pickup tube fitting and break the syphon.
Click to expand...

Roberta, that is entirely too practical. :cool:

Sam Buchanan
 
A challenge to all of you

Here's my challenge to all:

a) Determine an alternative means of compliance that does not require the removal of the sender or tank covers.

b) failing this, allow only the sender cover to be removed.

Here's some suggestions for (a):

There's been some discussion on using tank sealant to secure the fitting.

It might be possible, using the right tool, to reach in from the filler cap and apply a blob of sealant. I can envision using 1/4" fuel line tubing bent to shape, and a syringe to apply sealant through this tubing to the fitting. You'd need to flush the coupling with MEK first, I think.

The biggest problem is seeing what you are doing! Perhaps it's possible to remove the fuel drain, and look up inside... I don't know. A boroscope may help.

That leads to the second possibility, doing something similar from the fuel drain, using 1/8 copper or aluminum tubing and a syringe.

I need to lubricate my fuel drain o-ring soon, so I'll have a look at this method.

Failing this, I'm sure it's possible to remove the sender cover and access the coupling this way for the 'blob of death' application.

Lots of other ideas appreciated!

Vern Little
 
My idea would certainly prove the fitting was reasonably tight at the time of testing. It wouldn't prevent future loosening. It might be reasonable to assume that if it was still holding firm after many hours of flight, it most likely will continue to hold. I like the idea of adding a blob of sealant to the fitting. That hole for the sender should be big enough for that, if an alternate way proves unlikely.

Is this setup typical of most airplanes, besides Van's? What are other AC with similar fuel pickups incorporating to prevent this situation? I firmly remember tightening those fittings prior to sealing up my tank cover. I will conduct some tests to ensure the tubes are tight and will only open up my tanks if I sense that they are not fuctioning properly.

Seems like we have an awful lot of :cool: :mad: :( :confused: faces right now!

JMHO,

Roberta
 
Coverage

Many people have expressed the desire and intention to either delay compliance with the SB or ignore it all together. As seductive an alternative as that may sound, I have reservations about how our insurance companies would view such inaction. If an incident occurred fuel related or not, would coverage still be in effect?

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
Tell me,

How likely is a fitting prosealed up like this one be to coming "undone"?

P2200358.JPG


:confused: CJ
 
It would be interesting to know what tank "allegedly" lost the pickup tube. I would think the right tank would be more prone to loosening due to fuel slosh. Additionally, the pilot of this plane, that lost the tube, had several warnings of fuel starvation prior to the final one that took him out. Another point, if this was a QB and the builder did not check these fittings, that may be more the cause than a fitting that was properly tightened and loosened over time. These cover plates do come assembled with the pickup tube and appear to be ready to install. They must be checked.

Other items on QB's that need to be checked for tighteness are the bolts that hold the tanks to the wings, the ones on the spare to the Z brackets. Never assume that because an item was assembled when you receive it, it need not be checked for tightness.

Roberta
 
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