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Would you be interested in an Aerobatic Clinic?

Would you be interested in attending a RV-specific aerobatic clinic.

  • Yes, and I can bring a parachute (my own or borrowed).

    Votes: 58 28.0%

  • Yes, but I can't bring a parachute.

    Votes: 93 44.9%

  • I'm interested but need to know more.

    Votes: 39 18.8%

  • Definitely not interested.

    Votes: 17 8.2%
  • Total voters
    207
acroflyrgirl said:
I competed back when I had my Pitts. I loved it. Spend a long weekend with your fiends and have them critique you up one side and down the other. Not sure why it was so fun, but it was. :) I miss it.

Now that I have an RV I have gotten away from acro and am enjoying formation immensly. Very fun also. Go figure.

I had a single seat Pitts so my istruction was from a ground observer. Works very well once you have the basics solidly instilled. Back in the day, you could get a solo checkout in CHD's S2B. This came with some excellent and much needed spin sequence training. Invertd, upright, accelerated, flat etc.

I really enjoyed my Pitts and I miss the aggressive style of acro you can do with that airframe. In my RV I putt around sticking to positive, gentlemans' (so to speak) aerobatics. Fun, but definately a big notch down from competition.

I don't have any inverted systems in my RV either so that puts some limits to IAC contrst flying. I have chutes (Dan T's finest wedge softies) but have doubts that I can remove my tip up 6 canopy. I do know though that without a chute on, none of it matters.

When I was getting my conditional done recently we removed the canopy so I could see how it worked mechanically. It was difficult to do in the hangar with two of us. Pulling the canopy release was even difficult.

Regardless, I am very interested in participating in a clinic if one comes close enough for me to get to. (Wx, work, winds permitting)

If there were a developed known from the IAC I would like to jump in. However I would like to have something along the lines of an 8 to 10 manuever known rather than say 5. Just greedy I guess.

Cathy
Click to expand...

Cathy,

We all know that the RV is not a dedicated aerobatic mount like the Pitts, Extra, MX, etc. I find that the challenge is to compete against those dedicated aerobatic airplanes at a level where the emphasis is on piloting rather than aircraft capability. The IAC sportsman level of competition (with 10 figures) is where the RV shines. Even without inverted systems or constant speed propellers the RV is very competative.

The tip up canopy on RV-6 aircraft is an issue. I hope someone comes up with a clever solution that will allow one to exit those planes in a hurry.

Critiquing from a ground observer is essential to fine tune your skills. Without it we tend to make the same mistakes over and over until we get pretty darned good at making mistakes! I would encourage anyone interested in aerobatics to get instruction in the basics in any airplane such as a Decathlon, Pitts, etc. then use that knowledge to safely explore the flight envelope of the RV.
 
Interested

I am interested, used to teach acro but many moons ago. Would like to get a refresher. However, while the issue has been previously raised, I haven't seen a good response so far:

The weight limits on my -8 for acro are pretty restrictive. I just don't see how dual acro is permissible with most typically sized people.

Without a means to blow canopy off I hear it is virtually impossible to get the -8 canopy slider back far enough to get out. No?
 
E-17B said:
I am interested, used to teach acro but many moons ago. Would like to get a refresher. However, while the issue has been previously raised, I haven't seen a good response so far:

The weight limits on my -8 for acro are pretty restrictive. I just don't see how dual acro is permissible with most typically sized people.

Without a means to blow canopy off I hear it is virtually impossible to get the -8 canopy slider back far enough to get out. No?
Click to expand...

Regarding aerobatic instruction:
It is illegal to accept compensation for aerobatic instruction in an experimental aircraft. I put forth the idea for an aerobatic clinic but decided that the practical and legal (liability) issues are too daunting. I will, however be presenting an RV Aerobatic ground school at the upcoming NC Formation Clinic. Sign up details for the June 26-28 clinic will be announced in this forum in mid-April. I would encourage those interested in flying aerobatics in their RV to avail themselves of one of the many courses offered in certified aircraft (usually Decathlons, Extras, etc.) then come to the clinic to learn how to apply that training to aerobatics in your RV.

Regarding the weight limits:
As confirmed with Van's aircraft on 12/16/05, for any RV which has wing tanks, aerobatic gross weight does NOT include fuel in the wing tanks. Said differently, the pilot may compute (and not exceed) the published Aerobatic Gross Weight figure for his/her model, then add fuel on top of it up to the Normal/Utility category gross weight of the aircraft.

Regarding the canopy. Take a look at this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=81528

Hope this helps.
 
Ron
"As confirmed with Van's aircraft on 12/16/05, for any RV which has wing tanks, aerobatic gross weight does NOT include fuel in the wing tanks. Said differently, the pilot may compute (and not exceed) the published Aerobatic Gross Weight figure for his/her model, then add fuel on top of it up to the Normal/Utility category gross weight of the aircraft."

Is this something that only you received from Van's, or was this published in an issue of the RVATOR or some other document from Van's?
 
noelf said:
Ron
"As confirmed with Van's aircraft on 12/16/05, for any RV which has wing tanks, aerobatic gross weight does NOT include fuel in the wing tanks. Said differently, the pilot may compute (and not exceed) the published Aerobatic Gross Weight figure for his/her model, then add fuel on top of it up to the Normal/Utility category gross weight of the aircraft."

Is this something that only you received from Van's, or was this published in an issue of the RVATOR or some other document from Van's?
Click to expand...

This is from Randy Lervold, who had a conversation with Van on the subject. Randy posted it here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595
 
Sure seems to be an important question to depend on "a conversation" ten years ago. I've never seen a definition about a GW restriction defined like this. If there are any Vans folks on this thread could you provide some further light?
Also, couldn't get the link regarding the canopy issue to work. Anyone know the facts? Thanks.
 
For Hire

I received the following private message and was unable to answer with a private message because the sender's mailbox is full. I have deleted their identity in order to answer the questions here....

Where did this come from?

"It is illegal to accept compensation for aerobatic instruction in an experimental aircraft"

You can't accept compensation if you are carrying passengers or property for fire, but I have yet to see someone compensated at a clinic.

Also, can't a CFI accept compensation if he is flying with someone in their own plane?



Regarding compensation: FAR 91.319(a)(2) "No person may operate an an aircraft that has an experimental certificate - (for) Carrying persons or or property for compensation or hire."

We accept donations at a clinic to cover the cost of transportation and food. I decided to NOT have an aerobatic clinic due to the liability and practical considerations. Not because of FAR's.

I won't comment on the CFI question as I am not a CFI and not up on those regs. Maybe someone else can help here.
 
E-17B said:
Sure seems to be an important question to depend on "a conversation" ten years ago. I've never seen a definition about a GW restriction defined like this. If there are any Vans folks on this thread could you provide some further light?
Also, couldn't get the link regarding the canopy issue to work. Anyone know the facts? Thanks.
Click to expand...

It is an important question and I would not accept the answer unless I heard it from a reliable source. Randy Lervold is the president of CubCrafters, a personal friend and the builder of the most awesome RV-3 I have ever seen. You may want to reach out to him yourself to verify the veracity of his comment on aerobatic gross weight. [email protected]

The link works for me. Try again.
 
RV Aerobatics

Hi all,

I am about to finish phase I. The FAA says that if you are going to do aerobatics, you need to do them in phase I and document that in the logs. So, being pretty rusty on all that, I went down to Sean Tucker's school in King City and did three days in a Pitts 2C. Came back and did the basics in my RV. Loops, rolls, spins, etc. Pretty much a non-event although I was a little nervous about it all. I bought a parachute because I thought it would be a good idea for those maneuvers. Also put quick releases on my slider canopy so I am hopeful that I can exit if I need to.

The next step is clearly a clinic and then competition. I was talking with a woman who competes internationally (three hangers away, Extra 300). She basically said that if you really want to get better at aerobatics, you need to get into competition. Otherwise, without outside critique, you will likely not recognize your errors and just keep repeating them.

I sent in my dues to the IAC. Would love to see a West Coast Aerobatics clinic and then RV specific competitions. How can I help?
 
mlwynn said:
Hi all,

I am about to finish phase I. The FAA says that if you are going to do aerobatics, you need to do them in phase I and document that in the logs. So, being pretty rusty on all that, I went down to Sean Tucker's school in King City and did three days in a Pitts 2C. Came back and did the basics in my RV. Loops, rolls, spins, etc. Pretty much a non-event although I was a little nervous about it all. I bought a parachute because I thought it would be a good idea for those maneuvers. Also put quick releases on my slider canopy so I am hopeful that I can exit if I need to.

The next step is clearly a clinic and then competition. I was talking with a woman who competes internationally (three hangers away, Extra 300). She basically said that if you really want to get better at aerobatics, you need to get into competition. Otherwise, without outside critique, you will likely not recognize your errors and just keep repeating them.

I sent in my dues to the IAC. Would love to see a West Coast Aerobatics clinic and then RV specific competitions. How can I help?
Click to expand...

Michael,

You are doing all the right things! Now I hope you will get in contact with the local chapter of the IAC. There you will surely find the help you need to get into competition. You may not find RV specific competitive events but the Primary and Sportsman level of IAC competition are well within the capabilities of the RV and with practice and coaching you can become a contender. Your coaches need not be other RV pilots. Once you have learned the basics, as you have done by attending a 3-day aerobatic school, the rest is practice, practice, practice. If you want to learn even more about the fine points I suggest you read "Better Aerobatics" by Alan Cassidy. Good luck to you!
 
Aerobatic Gross Wt

It's been awhile since I asked about the aerobatic GW question. I had an opportunity to ask the Horses Mouth (Vans factory reps) at S&F. Despite word here previously, the posted aerobatic GW is absolute, not a ZFW. So, in the case of an -8, 1600# is the number. Kind of important to be accurate on something like this.
 
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