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385 landings...

David-aviator

Well Known Member
...and still working at it.

It's getting easier but still manage to screw one up now and then.

The best condition is 10 knots of headwind, the worst is 5 knots of tail wind. Cross winds are in between.

I cannot three point this airplane, it relaunches every time unless the wing is unloaded with forward stick as it touches down. To get it slowed to just above 51 knots (stall), the tail wheel will touch first and it will do a pogo dance with mains.

A touch down on mains is above stall every time, the aircraft will relaunch easily unless the wing is unloaded with a bit of forward stick.

So, I wheel land it all the time. That's easy once you figure out where the runway is. :)
 
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I do lots of three point landings, we have quite some short fields here. I feel it is not necessary to pull the stick all the way back, just so much that you get the three point attitude to settle it down. Then, after touch down, stick all the way back and a little braking to stabilize. This worked for me on all taildraggers I flew.
 
Just different

I can stick my landings on my -7 pretty much all the time ( watch me get smacked by "Murphy") anyway, I get in my friend's -8 and I feel like I've never landed a tail dragger. Crazy :eek:
 
I do lots of three point landings, we have quite some short fields here. I feel it is not necessary to pull the stick all the way back, just so much that you get the three point attitude to settle it down. Then, after touch down, stick all the way back and a little braking to stabilize. This worked for me on all taildraggers I flew.

Well, all RV-8's are not the same.

Your airplane obviously is heavier and has a CS prop (speed brake).

My airplane does not slow quickly with fixed pitch prop and empty weight of 1029 pounds. It wants to fly. If three point touch down is not perfect, it will relaunch easily, with much lost runway behind in process. That does not happen making tail low wheel landing with forward stick after touch down.

I did make first flight and fly first 80 hours from 2200" hard surface with 1700' of parallel grass with trees on both ends. It was dicey some days depending on wind, but I can get in and out of short fields with personally developed techniques. It is no big deal.

I will however defer to your experience in tail draggers. I have thousands of hours trike time since day one but less than 200 hours tail wheel time. At this point I have to stick with what works of me.
 
...I cannot three point this airplane, it relaunches every time unless the wing is unloaded with forward stick as it touches down. To get it slowed to just above 51 knots (stall), the tail wheel will touch first and it will do a pogo dance with mains.

A touch down on mains is above stall every time, the aircraft will relaunch easily unless the wing is unloaded with a bit of forward stick.

So, I wheel land it all the time. That's easy once you figure out where the runway is. :)

In past posts I have expressed that the -8 does not "like" to 3 point. My several years and a thousand or so of landings in the -8 seemed plenty of experience to speak with some authority on the subject. Even after trying to 3 point the airplane it resisted my efforts.

Well...

With the Rocket down for modification most of my flying has been in my Taylorcraft - with the RV just left to gather dust in the corner of the hangar, largely ignored. The first time I pressed the -8 back into service a few weeks ago was like flying a whole new airplane and long story short, I botched my first landing. I intended a nice wheelie, but the once familiar sight picture was only a foggy memory and it resulted in an an accidental, but textbook 3 point. Seeing this fluke before, I didnt think too much of it until the return leg when it happened again. I've flown the airplane several times since then and ALL of the dozen or more landings have been 3 point. Some are better than others, but all have been acceptable. I seem to be able to round out, work the stick all the way back as it slows, wait half a beat and the airplane just drops the last couple of inches on all 3 wheels pretty as you please.

My airplane seems to have learned how to 3 point, so maybe yours will too. ;)
 
Thanks Michael.

Are you doing this on grass or hard surface?

I can do a respectable 3 pointer on grass. By respectable I mean better than hard surface.

The airplane behaves differently.
 
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Well, all RV-8's are not the same.

Your airplane obviously is heavier and has a CS prop (speed brake).

My airplane does not slow quickly with fixed pitch prop and empty weight of 1029 pounds. It wants to fly. If three point touch down is not perfect, it will relaunch easily, with much lost runway behind in process. That does not happen making tail low wheel landing with forward stick after touch down.

I did make first flight and fly first 80 hours from 2200" hard surface with 1700' of parallel grass with trees on both ends. It was dicey some days depending on wind, but I can get in and out of short fields with personally developed techniques. It is no big deal.

I will however defer to your experience in tail draggers. I have thousands of hours trike time since day one but less than 200 hours tail wheel time. At this point I have to stick with what works of me.

385 landings! Something to strive for...

My RV-8 is more like what you describe above, heavier because of the constant speed BA Hartzell. My battery is on the firewall and I typically fly solo with some ballast in the rear baggage compartment to even things out. Nevertheless, I find it very difficult (impossible) to 3 point at my skill level despite being taught to land that way in the factory RV-7 during transition training. When attempting 3 pt, it bounces, goes airborne and then I'm just a passenger as it decides what to do next. No thank you. I like the control I get from wheeling it on.
 
385 landings! Something to strive for...

My RV-8 is more like what you describe above, heavier because of the constant speed BA Hartzell. My battery is on the firewall and I typically fly solo with some ballast in the rear baggage compartment to even things out. Nevertheless, I find it very difficult (impossible) to 3 point at my skill level despite being taught to land that way in the factory RV-7 during transition training. When attempting 3 pt, it bounces, goes airborne and then I'm just a passenger as it decides what to do next. No thank you. I like the control I get from wheeling it on.

:) :) :) :)

I too hate that feeling of being passenger.
 
Thanks Michael.

Are you doing this on grass or hard surface?...

This is all asphalt or concrete.

And the funny thing is that my pattern is the same as before - speeds, sight picture, etc - it's only the last few inches of flight that are different.

This also happened to me with the Hiperbipe. Used to 3 point all the time and then the ability vanished overnight. I'm flying the -8 some more this weekend, I'll try see if I can summon the skill for both types at will.
 
My finding on 3-pt with the RV-8 is that the wing is still flying when you are at 3-pt attitude. I can (sometimes) absolutely grease on at 3-pt attitude, and it feels extremely squirrelly because it is still flying. There is no weight on the wheels so no braking, no resistance to side motion. I have the feeling that if I suck the stick back hard, it would fly again.

If we had manual flaps, and dumped the flaps on touchdown, it would paste it down more. But the electric flap is too slow to help much.

Grass is better simply because the higher rolling resistance bleeds speed quickly so you get weight on the wheels sooner.

All this is after years of flying a Citabria and I ONLY did 3-pt landings. It was a religion to me. So, I've had to change religions and do wheel landings.

The only other technique is exactly what David said, lift the tail a little (or a lot) and it is planted.
 
In my case the stick is already all the way back before touchdown. Sometimes it coincides exactly with touchdown (the greaser) and other times its considerably before and I get a distinct break. In both cases it is absolutely done flying once the wheels are down.
 
I find as David mentioned, that my RV8 is still flying in a three point attitude. So I also do a tail low landing and then immediately unload the wing with forward stick. Its different with a rear passenger and aft cg in which case I need more forward stick to keep from touching tail first.
 
I hesitate to write this because I am the newest newbie when it comes to flying RV-8s, but I just returned from transition training with Bruce Bohannon and all we did was three point the -8. We did a few wheelies to show me how to do them, but the vast majority of them were three pointers. The RV-8 he uses for training has a CS prop on a 180 hp engine so there's a little more weight there and he was in the back seat of course. Just another data point.:)
 
Hi David,
Don't feel bad, with a few thousand ldgs in 6's, I fought the pogo dance for a long time doing 3 pointers until finally I realized I was using to much back stick. We forget how sensitive the stick is even at slow speeds. The problem is sometimes a high sink sats up just before touch down after the flare and we are tricked in to pulling back on the stick to stop it and there you go doing the pogo dance because of the tall touching first. Occasionally to cancel the sink a slight power pump is needed, but leave the stick in the sweet spot. Also the wing unloads a little sooner with just a little bit less back stick and it stays planted provided your speed is right.
One day the sight picture will just click and you will wonder why it took so long.
IMHO it's all speed control and the right touch.
Ironicly, I have a bigger problem greasing wheel ldgs. The only way is even less back stick and a little steeper aprouch and maybe about 5 more knots. If I drag in over the fence, flat and slow, I'm already committed to a 3 pointer, that is if you want to land very short.
Both my Sube and lycoming 6's (both CS) behave the same.

Kelly Landrum
 
385 landings! Something to strive for...

My RV-8 is more like what you describe above, heavier because of the constant speed BA Hartzell. My battery is on the firewall and I typically fly solo with some ballast in the rear baggage compartment to even things out. Nevertheless, I find it very difficult (impossible) to 3 point at my skill level despite being taught to land that way in the factory RV-7 during transition training. When attempting 3 pt, it bounces, goes airborne and then I'm just a passenger as it decides what to do next. No thank you. I like the control I get from wheeling it on.

It may not be your skill level. RV-8s empty CG varies based on engine and prop selection, and the all important placement of the battery. This has been kick around before, but new RV-8 pilots are still arriving and discovering the same flight characteristics. Based on your description of your 8, I could have told you your 8 would behave just as you described before you flew it. I discovered the same thing back in July 2000. Now with over 1600 hours in 18 different RV-8s, I understand the airplane pretty well. Depending on where your solo CG is, you elevator authority will determine if you can get the aircraft slow enough to be stalled as the aircraft arrives three point on the runway.
With a Lycoming or clone 0360 and a Hartzel prop, your battery needed to be mounted in the back. As it is you must carry aft ballast when flying solo. Lead is a good source of weight to correct CG. I figured that if I need lead in the back to correct the CG then it should also generate 12 volts DC for me. Consider relocating your battery aft during a conditional. You can remove the ballast and enjoy a lighter, better balanced RV-8.
 
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It may not be your skill level. RV-8s empty CG varies based on engine and prop selection, and the all important placement of the battery. This has been kick around before, but new RV-8 pilots are still arriving and discovering the same flight characteristics. Based on your description of your 8, I could have told you your 8 would behave just as you described before you flew it. I discovered the same thing back in July 2000. Now with over 1600 hours in 18 different RV-8s, I understand the airplane pretty well. Depending on where your solo CG is, you elevator authority will determine if you can get the aircraft slow enough to be stalled as the aircraft arrives three point on the runway.
With a Lycoming or clone 0360 and a Hartzel prop, your battery needed to be mounted in the back. As it is you must carry aft ballast when flying solo. Lead is a good source of weight to correct CG. I figured that if I need lead in the back to correct the CG then it should also generate 12 volts DC for me. Consider relocating your battery aft during a conditional. You can remove the ballast and enjoy a lighter, better balanced RV-8.

Thanks Danny!
 
RV-8 ldgs

With 10 yrs and hundreds of ldgs, I've stuck to wheel ldgs...luv the site pix right up to tail dropping off at 40k or so. Always 3 pointed my -4 in the 90s, but see no reason to chg what has worked forever....those first attempts at 3 point were too sloppy, so moved on...do not know any of my many -8 buddies who do anything but wheel, also much nicer w/ crosswinds as you plant and don't float. As a member of 37 ship Guinness record team, we had 18 knot direct cross one day. All the tri gear guys had hands full, not so w/ wheel ldgs...usually about 70 knots just before TD.
 
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