Van's Air Force
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Time to build?
- Thread starter danboy
- Start date
rleffler
Well Known Member
I'm approaching 2,600 hours as its going to the paint shop next week. I probably have a hundred hours after it gets back from the paint shop
pierre smith
Well Known Member
It varies.
Dan that's difficult to answer because some guys put in 20 hours a week, others maybe 5. Figure how many hours that you'll be able to average a week and then you'll have your answer.
Some of us with seasonal employment, like my summer ag seasons, have little or no time during the summer.
Best,
Dan that's difficult to answer because some guys put in 20 hours a week, others maybe 5. Figure how many hours that you'll be able to average a week and then you'll have your answer.
Some of us with seasonal employment, like my summer ag seasons, have little or no time during the summer.
Best,
You are looking at it the wrong way
Seldom if ever is building an airplane a scheduled production activity that has any relevance to the passage of calendar time. We work when we can and keep track of the hours of actual work in the shop (including head scratching time). Only you know what kind of time per day you can expect to apply and how many days a 7 day week you can expect to work on the plane, and how many weeks out of a 52 week year you can expect to actually work on the plane (allowing for vacations and such). If you calculate the number of hours per year you can have available and divide that by a new builder efficiency number like .75 when using an experienced builders number (like the 3000 hours) you come up with 4,000 hours and divide by your expected yearly work time. You can estimate the number of years it will take you. If you are really dedicated and work 2 hours per day during the week and 10 hours on the two weekend days and take two weeks vacation away from home each year you come up with 1,500 hours per year and 2 years and 8 months elapsed calendar time to build.
Bob Axsom
Seldom if ever is building an airplane a scheduled production activity that has any relevance to the passage of calendar time. We work when we can and keep track of the hours of actual work in the shop (including head scratching time). Only you know what kind of time per day you can expect to apply and how many days a 7 day week you can expect to work on the plane, and how many weeks out of a 52 week year you can expect to actually work on the plane (allowing for vacations and such). If you calculate the number of hours per year you can have available and divide that by a new builder efficiency number like .75 when using an experienced builders number (like the 3000 hours) you come up with 4,000 hours and divide by your expected yearly work time. You can estimate the number of years it will take you. If you are really dedicated and work 2 hours per day during the week and 10 hours on the two weekend days and take two weeks vacation away from home each year you come up with 1,500 hours per year and 2 years and 8 months elapsed calendar time to build.
Bob Axsom
Aircraft Specialty
Well Known Member
MauleDriver
Well Known Member
5 years from tail kit receipt to first flight
5 years to the month. I did not track hours.
I spent 6-8 months putting in a workshop with HVAC, lighting, etc - not included in 5 years.
Quick build kit, did my own IFR panel, did my own paint, stock engine/prop
Working for $$ full time but work was at home with lots of flexibility
Shop was at home - more flexibility.
Worked as much as I wanted but certainly did not want to as much as I could
I had an airplane to fly
I savored the head scratching
No right way to ask or answer that question so you asked it the right way.
Many decisions impact the time but not necessarily in the way you would think.
- A 1 week assisted build class on the tail probably saved 6 months in learning curve time.
- Slow build versus quick build may not be as big a difference as it seems - though I'm sure it doesn't feel that way when working on the slow build parts
- Customization of airframe or powerplant seems to take a lot of time. Building kit as designed saves time.
- I didn't plan to paint - added 6 months but given paint shop schedules, perhaps much less.
- HVAC here in NC significantly boosted productivity
-Worked too many hours in last 6 months - badly damaged knees. Not worth it.
Welcome aboard!
http://www.mykitlog.com/MauleDriver/
5 years to the month. I did not track hours.
I spent 6-8 months putting in a workshop with HVAC, lighting, etc - not included in 5 years.
Quick build kit, did my own IFR panel, did my own paint, stock engine/prop
Working for $$ full time but work was at home with lots of flexibility
Shop was at home - more flexibility.
Worked as much as I wanted but certainly did not want to as much as I could
I had an airplane to fly
I savored the head scratching
No right way to ask or answer that question so you asked it the right way.
Many decisions impact the time but not necessarily in the way you would think.
- A 1 week assisted build class on the tail probably saved 6 months in learning curve time.
- Slow build versus quick build may not be as big a difference as it seems - though I'm sure it doesn't feel that way when working on the slow build parts
- Customization of airframe or powerplant seems to take a lot of time. Building kit as designed saves time.
- I didn't plan to paint - added 6 months but given paint shop schedules, perhaps much less.
- HVAC here in NC significantly boosted productivity
-Worked too many hours in last 6 months - badly damaged knees. Not worth it.
Welcome aboard!
http://www.mykitlog.com/MauleDriver/
sstellarv10
Well Known Member
I'm at 5 1/2 years so far and I'm probably 1/2 done. I'm on the very slow build plan.
Consider the mission first
Dan:
I see you posted a similar question on the 9/9a forum; while "time to build" may be one consideration, I suggest your intended use should drive your decision on the aircraft.
Put another way, a plan to build, paint, suss out teething issues, and complete a safe test flight program for a -10 is moot if, to illustrate one scenario, you don't have the requisite medical.
YMMV
Dan:
I see you posted a similar question on the 9/9a forum; while "time to build" may be one consideration, I suggest your intended use should drive your decision on the aircraft.
Put another way, a plan to build, paint, suss out teething issues, and complete a safe test flight program for a -10 is moot if, to illustrate one scenario, you don't have the requisite medical.
YMMV
rleffler
Well Known Member
Pierre hit the nail on the head. I started out strong with about 20 hours a week. I had several activities that interupted building activities. I lost 3-4 months while doing due diligence on buying a business. Then I got laid off. While it gave me more free time than I anticipated, purchasing that next kit was delay. Fortunately, I had just receive the fuselage kit. Then when I started back to work, I had a data center move project that forced me to work 7 days a week for a few months. Then it turned cold and I couldn't finish working on the fiberglass until it got warmer again. Once the project went to the hangar, my hours slowed down to about 10-12 per week. This summer I've been working 30-40 hours a week, seven days attempting to get the project completed. All of this over a 5.5 year duration. By the way, I've only be able to accomplish all the hours this summer, because my wife wants the project done and is working with me 4-5 days a week too.
So the answer is that there isn't a standard hours. Van's does a pretty good job at estimating the amount of effort required. Only you can tell what the duration will be by the amount of time you can allocate and keep up family obligations.
So the answer is that there isn't a standard hours. Van's does a pretty good job at estimating the amount of effort required. Only you can tell what the duration will be by the amount of time you can allocate and keep up family obligations.
3 years, 9 months.
I'm retired and averaged 30 hours per week (deal with spouse: weekdays only). I'd rate myself as a slow worker. Some (a lot?) of that time was just sitting there thinking.
Quick Build kit, my paint, minimal interior. I did do the panel myself but with a Stein harness (mandatory if you buy Garmin), full IFR- GRT HX, HS, D6 backup,Trio Pro, SL30, GNS420, GTX327, and an intercom/audio panel I also built from scratch.
I'm retired and averaged 30 hours per week (deal with spouse: weekdays only). I'd rate myself as a slow worker. Some (a lot?) of that time was just sitting there thinking.
Quick Build kit, my paint, minimal interior. I did do the panel myself but with a Stein harness (mandatory if you buy Garmin), full IFR- GRT HX, HS, D6 backup,Trio Pro, SL30, GNS420, GTX327, and an intercom/audio panel I also built from scratch.
Phil
Well Known Member
I just crossed the 5 year mark this month (QB/IFR Panel) and I'm thinking I've got another year or so before it has a serious chance at flying.
I thought it would take 3 years to get done and that 5 would mean something went terribly wrong. But here I am looking at 6. It's not because I haven't worked on it, it's just because it takes a while and life won't get out of your way and make it easy.
I'd say get comfortable with 5 years (you'll be within range at 5 years), but it it takes 3 to complete then consider yourself really fortunate and go have fun in your airplane 2 years before you thought you'd be finished.
I thought it would take 3 years to get done and that 5 would mean something went terribly wrong. But here I am looking at 6. It's not because I haven't worked on it, it's just because it takes a while and life won't get out of your way and make it easy.
I'd say get comfortable with 5 years (you'll be within range at 5 years), but it it takes 3 to complete then consider yourself really fortunate and go have fun in your airplane 2 years before you thought you'd be finished.
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18 months
I went quick build and it took 18 months. I worked 40 to 50 hrs a week at my day job, 30 to 40 hrs a week on the plane. My wife still reminds me that she was a single mom during the build. I figured if I got it done quick enough maybe she wouldn't notice. Key is build in your garage and make sure every moment on the project is productive. I always had a plan of what I would be doing the next day prior to finishing the day I was on. 95 % of the work was done alone.
It was my second RV and 3rd kit so I am sure that helped. I was told it takes 3 to be any good, so I guess my next kit is the one.
I went quick build and it took 18 months. I worked 40 to 50 hrs a week at my day job, 30 to 40 hrs a week on the plane. My wife still reminds me that she was a single mom during the build. I figured if I got it done quick enough maybe she wouldn't notice.
Key is build in your garage and make sure every moment on the project is productive. I always had a plan of what I would be doing the next day prior to finishing the day I was on. 95 % of the work was done alone. It was my second RV and 3rd kit so I am sure that helped. I was told it takes 3 to be any good, so I guess my next kit is the one.
Auburntsts
Well Known Member
This week is my 6 year anniversary of ordering my tailcone kit. Out of those 6 years, I've only spent about 3.5 yrs building consistently (slow build BTW) as life got in the way (deployment to Iraq, retirement from active duty and starting a new job, kid's events, vacations, house work, etc). However, I'm getting close and might actually get her in the air before the end of the year. One thing that can extend the build time is mods. I bet I've extended the build time by at least 8 months installing an overhead console, hard points for a cargo pod, and an externally accessible ground power point, not to mention just trying to figure out where to install things that aren't mods but that aren't spelled out in the plans (avionics, wiring, antenna's etc).
Brandi
Well Known Member
2300 hours in 20 months with two of us working on it. Pre-built emp kit, regular build wings and quick build fuse. No paint as of yet. We also designed and wired all electrical; designed, cut and installed the panel; and designed and built the interior (with some interior work still in progress)
johngoodman
Well Known Member
Daniel,
I'm retired and it took me 5 years and one month from kit delivery to DAR inspection. I faithfully logged only time actually spent in the shop (even docked myself for lunch breaks). I logged about 3300 actual hours. I also logged about 160 hours for help from my wife and friends. First time builder.
Get your shop completely ready first. Also, don't buy your tools yet - you will get LOTS of advice when you get around to that.http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon12.gif
John
I'm retired and it took me 5 years and one month from kit delivery to DAR inspection. I faithfully logged only time actually spent in the shop (even docked myself for lunch breaks). I logged about 3300 actual hours. I also logged about 160 hours for help from my wife and friends. First time builder.
Get your shop completely ready first. Also, don't buy your tools yet - you will get LOTS of advice when you get around to that.http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon12.gif
John
Build time on my first RV-10 was about the same as Ray's - 2200 hours. That was spread over about 4.5 years with a few couple month breaks in there for work related reasons. Second RV-10 seems to be taking about the same number of hours so far.
Aside from the well made point on calendar time being meaningless, build time is close to that unless you know specifically how the hours were counted. Some count research time, reading time, only time with a tool in your hand, etc. I looked at the clock when I went out to the shop and when I wrapped up for the session. Didn't matter if I was head scratching, organizing parts, or building. Time spent away from the shop reading, researching, etc. were not counted. You also need to know if the total count included any engine or avionics related stuff. A few people had engine config changes like electronic ignition installs, top overhauls, etc. as part of their time. There's also avionics - somebody that had Stein build their panel will be much different than if they did it themselves. Finally fiberglass work... do the hours count getting it to the paint ready stage or just rough and let the paint shop take care of the rest
Best advice I saw was to figure out the mission first, decide on which plane fits that and then figure out if you've got the perseverance AND family support to spend a few years and a couple thousand hours building.
Bob
Aside from the well made point on calendar time being meaningless, build time is close to that unless you know specifically how the hours were counted. Some count research time, reading time, only time with a tool in your hand, etc. I looked at the clock when I went out to the shop and when I wrapped up for the session. Didn't matter if I was head scratching, organizing parts, or building. Time spent away from the shop reading, researching, etc. were not counted. You also need to know if the total count included any engine or avionics related stuff. A few people had engine config changes like electronic ignition installs, top overhauls, etc. as part of their time. There's also avionics - somebody that had Stein build their panel will be much different than if they did it themselves. Finally fiberglass work... do the hours count getting it to the paint ready stage or just rough and let the paint shop take care of the rest
Best advice I saw was to figure out the mission first, decide on which plane fits that and then figure out if you've got the perseverance AND family support to spend a few years and a couple thousand hours building.
Bob
Bill.Peyton
Well Known Member
I am retired, my Dad and I have been working full time 40+ hours per week and we are ready to move to the hanger this week. The plane is painted and has been completely assembled in the workshop. We are first time builders and have accumulated 3700 hours over 2 years. I took over 3 months for us to paint with a professional painters assistance. The goal was to have the best workmanship and highest finish in all regards. I did the entire IFR panel and all the wiring.
You can significantly cut down on the time by contracting for the paint, purchasing a completed panel for Stein and paying to have the interior done. We chose to do everything.
You can significantly cut down on the time by contracting for the paint, purchasing a completed panel for Stein and paying to have the interior done. We chose to do everything.
Danny King
Well Known Member
Build time: 2 years and 7 months
Two years and seven months. The Doll was a slow build kit. 2 years and 7 months includes the paint job which I did myself. At the time I was flying 727 trips for American Airlines which took about half the month. If my trip signed in late, I worked on the day I left, and I almost always got something done on the day I returned.
The trick is to get something done every day you can, If you can only put in five minutes, then work for five minutes. You will be amazed how five minutes can turn into several hours!
To me, building the Doll was like a good book I couldn't put down. I started the tail kit at age 49. That was fifteen years ago. I'm not sure I could build one that fast now. Over the years, I have worked enough on other builders RV-8's to have built a second 8 for myself.
Two years and seven months. The Doll was a slow build kit. 2 years and 7 months includes the paint job which I did myself. At the time I was flying 727 trips for American Airlines which took about half the month. If my trip signed in late, I worked on the day I left, and I almost always got something done on the day I returned.
The trick is to get something done every day you can, If you can only put in five minutes, then work for five minutes. You will be amazed how five minutes can turn into several hours!
To me, building the Doll was like a good book I couldn't put down. I started the tail kit at age 49. That was fifteen years ago. I'm not sure I could build one that fast now. Over the years, I have worked enough on other builders RV-8's to have built a second 8 for myself.
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Wayne Gillispie
Well Known Member
How we did it...
Wife on board first. Paid off everything second(banks hate it), which meant cooking at home and no vacations from 2007-2012. Saved the money, then ordered the first four kits. Opened slow build boxes and inventoried with family Dec 1, 2009. Ripped all blue vinyl off. Started building in heated/air conditioned shop(hvac is how I make a living). Once we were ready for engine, prop, fwf kit, wiring, avionics, seat upholstery, we had that money saved. First flight Dec 1, 2011. Two years exactly working 20 hrs per week. Limited online time to 30 min/day. Very little TV watching. DVD/popcorn with family occasionally.
Yes, we did it on a teachers/hvac salary. Sacrifice, dedication, hard work, and patience.
If you listen and order everything they recommend on these sites, you will be awhile. Van's knows what you need 99.9% of the time. I added a safety door latch, 5052 brake/fuel lines, matco axle, wheel pant extensions and ss flex
hoses at master cylinders...that is it for extras. If you want a perfect plane, you will be awhile. If you don't save at least $60,000 before starting, you will be awhile, unless you are rich...then I would just buy one. I built it for trips with the family to see the country and because it was more affordable, not for the fun of building. I did not build so that could add another RV under my signature. I did not build for anyone else but my family. Now, with prices of four place aircraft coming down, I would look into buying. Getting ready to take the family to Triple Tree(SC00), South of Greenville. Good luck and if you want a ride, just ask.
Wife on board first. Paid off everything second(banks hate it), which meant cooking at home and no vacations from 2007-2012. Saved the money, then ordered the first four kits. Opened slow build boxes and inventoried with family Dec 1, 2009. Ripped all blue vinyl off. Started building in heated/air conditioned shop(hvac is how I make a living). Once we were ready for engine, prop, fwf kit, wiring, avionics, seat upholstery, we had that money saved. First flight Dec 1, 2011. Two years exactly working 20 hrs per week. Limited online time to 30 min/day. Very little TV watching. DVD/popcorn with family occasionally.
Yes, we did it on a teachers/hvac salary. Sacrifice, dedication, hard work, and patience.
If you listen and order everything they recommend on these sites, you will be awhile. Van's knows what you need 99.9% of the time. I added a safety door latch, 5052 brake/fuel lines, matco axle, wheel pant extensions and ss flex
hoses at master cylinders...that is it for extras. If you want a perfect plane, you will be awhile. If you don't save at least $60,000 before starting, you will be awhile, unless you are rich...then I would just buy one. I built it for trips with the family to see the country and because it was more affordable, not for the fun of building. I did not build so that could add another RV under my signature. I did not build for anyone else but my family. Now, with prices of four place aircraft coming down, I would look into buying. Getting ready to take the family to Triple Tree(SC00), South of Greenville. Good luck and if you want a ride, just ask.
MauleDriver
Well Known Member
Question re paint
For those of you who contracted the paint, how long (elapsed time) from ready for paint shop to returned from paint shop?
Wondering what's typical... 30 days, 90 days, 6 months.
Most interested in whether scheduling is an issue and whether shops tend to make their commitments. Not interested in comparing shops, just curious.
Bill
For those of you who contracted the paint, how long (elapsed time) from ready for paint shop to returned from paint shop?
Wondering what's typical... 30 days, 90 days, 6 months.
Most interested in whether scheduling is an issue and whether shops tend to make their commitments. Not interested in comparing shops, just curious.
Bill
rleffler
Well Known Member
Bill, thinking about repainting Tigressa?
Back to your question. My painter said to expect 3-4 weeks. My problem has been getting into the shop. It's a long story and it's not a commercial shop. For the pricing I got, I'm more than happy to overlook the delays. The good news is that the paint arrives Friday and painting should start next week.
Bob
