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Garmin GTN-650 Software Updates?

TXFlyGuy

Well Known Member
Question for you Garmin 650 owners...as this is IFR certified, can you do the update on your own? Or does an avionics tech have to do the update, and make a log entry?

And is there a difference if this is installed in a C-310, or an RV-8?

Not talking about NAV-DATA updates, but software updates.
 
Question for you Garmin 650 owners...as this is IFR certified, can you do the update on your own? Or does an avionics tech have to do the update, and make a log entry?

And is there a difference if this is installed in a C-310, or an RV-8?

Not talking about NAV-DATA updates, but software updates.

If you are EAB, you can download them from Garmin and install them yourself. I don?t believe there is a difference in the code. You can make the log book entry. You only need an A&P for your condition inspection if you weren?t the builder.
 
I own several aircraft, one being a Cessna 150 with a full Garmin stack, including a GTN 650. I had to go to my local Garmin dealer just to see what the current release level of s/w was for all the devices. Then I had to pay the dealer to install the s/w on each unit. I was told that Garmin allows the shop to charge 1 hour shop rate labor for each device that needs a s/w update. Two G5's alone = 2 hours even it only takes a few moments each. Plus the GTN, the GNC, and the GTX.

Keep Flying EXPERIMENTALS.
 
I own several aircraft, one being a Cessna 150 with a full Garmin stack, including a GTN 650. I had to go to my local Garmin dealer just to see what the current release level of s/w was for all the devices. Then I had to pay the dealer to install the s/w on each unit. I was told that Garmin allows the shop to charge 1 hour shop rate labor for each device that needs a s/w update. Two G5's alone = 2 hours even it only takes a few moments each. Plus the GTN, the GNC, and the GTX.

Keep Flying EXPERIMENTALS.

Can you spell Rip Off?
It takes only a few minutes to download the data on an SD card. Then it is Plug & Play. Literally, anyone could do the update.
 
. I was told that Garmin allows the shop to charge 1 hour shop rate labor for each device that needs a s/w update.
.

I'm not a great fan of Garmin, however, the above statement is not true. Garmin does not "allow", require, etc., anything in this regard. And I believe they provide the update software to the dealers for free. Dealers are independent, and are free to charge as much or as little as they like. Shop around. If you've given the dealer a lot of business they may do it for free. My last software update, I got a "cash discount" (he took all the cash I had instead of running the credit card).
 
I'm not a great fan of Garmin, however, the above statement is not true. Garmin does not "allow", require, etc., anything in this regard. And I believe they provide the update software to the dealers for free. Dealers are independent, and are free to charge as much or as little as they like. Shop around. If you've given the dealer a lot of business they may do it for free. My last software update, I got a "cash discount" (he took all the cash I had instead of running the credit card).

My plane has an all Garmin stack, plus a GRT Mini EFIS as a backup. GRT does not charge for any updates to the software or NAV DATA, there is no annual subscription that you must buy.

Unlike Garmin, where my annual fee is about $700.
 
I never understood this advertising campaign. Wouldn't it be better to be: "we try to save you a much money as we can".

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My plane has an all Garmin stack, plus a GRT Mini EFIS as a backup. GRT does not charge for any updates to the software or NAV DATA, there is no annual subscription that you must buy.

Unlike Garmin, where my annual fee is about $700.

If you want to fly with an IFR certified navigator it doesn't matter whose it is, you will pay for that nav data.
The basic nav data required for a Garmin navigator is $299, not $700.
 
I'm not a great fan of Garmin, however, the above statement is not true. Garmin does not "allow", require, etc., anything in this regard. And I believe they provide the update software to the dealers for free. Dealers are independent, and are free to charge as much or as little as they like. Shop around. If you've given the dealer a lot of business they may do it for free. My last software update, I got a "cash discount" (he took all the cash I had instead of running the credit card).

I do software updates for free, or will loan you my cards, to all my EAB customers and friends :eek:
The exception is if I have to do a bench update like on a transponder then I do charge for that extra time.
 
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If you want to fly with an IFR certified navigator it doesn't matter whose it is, you will pay for that nav data.
The basic nav data required for a Garmin navigator is $299, not $700.

The complete package deal from Garmin, with the huge built in "savings", is:

G3X Touch = North America Data Base Bundle $199.95
GTN 650 = North America Data Base Bundle $499.00

The least expensive option for both units in a bundle is $548.99. But not nearly the coverage for the G3X.
 
The complete package deal from Garmin, with the huge built in "savings", is:

G3X Touch = North America Data Base Bundle $199.95
GTN 650 = North America Data Base Bundle $499.00

The least expensive option for both units in a bundle is $548.99. But not nearly the coverage for the G3X.

You need to dig a little deeper:
G3X bundle $149
GTN Nav data $299

Nobody gives away NAV data for IFR.
 
United States vs North America

Unless you really want all of North America, the United States only databases are cheaper.

I use the ones Walt referenced for my G3X and GTN
 
Also be advised there are two sources for ifr nav data, Garmin and Jepp. Jepp is $150 more expensive. For a while they would match Garmin?s price (you had to ask) but not anymore. I guess I don?t understand their business model.
 
Database Updates

Thanks. I'll keep looking, but need to be IFR capable.

US Navigation Data for the GTN 650, which is required to be updated to remain IFR Current, costs $299 for one year. This does not update the rest of the databases in the GTN 650, like Obstacle, Safetaxi, Airport Directory and Terrain.

Since your G3X Touch is an experimental product we can update all of the databases at a much lower cost. $149 per year not only updates the Obstacle, Safetaxi, Navigation and Terrain databases, but the IFR High and Low enroute charts, VFR Sectional charts, and approach procedure charts.

So you end up with all the data you need on the G3X screens, including all IFR and VFR charts, as well as the minimum updates you need to remain IFR current on the GTN for around $449. Others offer free database updates for some of their equipment, but you will have to investigate exactly what capabilities those free database updates offer, to make a fair value comparison.

Thanks,

Justin
 
Software Update

Question for you Garmin 650 owners...as this is IFR certified, can you do the update on your own? Or does an avionics tech have to do the update, and make a log entry?

And is there a difference if this is installed in a C-310, or an RV-8?

Not talking about NAV-DATA updates, but software updates.


The GTN 650 software updates for EAB aircraft can be downloaded and installed by anyone using this link.

Any certified aircraft is going to be regulated differently than an experimental aircraft. Unlike your RV8, a software update on your C310 is going to need to be signed off by an installer.

Thanks,

Justin
 
GTN 650 Software Updates

I buy the IFR updates ($299/yr) and have no trouble installing them but want to be able to do the software updates on my RV-8. Justin the link you posted above does not work. Where is the software update page for the GTN 650 for experimentals?
 
Garmin was hacked this past week. Many of their websites and services are unavailable. There have been postings elsewhere that it was a ransom ware attack, but I have no direct knowledge.
 
The complete package deal from Garmin, with the huge built in "savings", is:

G3X Touch = North America Data Base Bundle $199.95
GTN 650 = North America Data Base Bundle $499.00

The least expensive option for both units in a bundle is $548.99. But not nearly the coverage for the G3X.

Actually - you can get it for less than that. You don’t need the North American Database Bundle for the GTN. You only need the NAV data which is $399... so it’ll save you $100 a year. In order to be IFR current, you need NAV data. And because the G3X provides terrain, charts, etc - you don’t really need it on the GTN. I went with the 650 just to be able to fly IFR. I really don’t use it for anything other than loading my approaches. Every once in a while, I leave it on the Traffic page.
 
GTN 650

I needed an IFR navigator so I chose the GTN 650. The only data base I subscribe to is the NAV database. The rest of my panel is all Dynon, 3 HDX screens, except the audio panel (PS Engineering BT8000). It costs me $299 a year for the Garmin NAV database. The other subscriptions are not worth having because I get them free from Dynon.

If Dynon made an IFR navigator I would not even look at any Garmin equipment. It’s not that the equipment is bad. The problem is they plan on getting more for the software and NAV updates than you paid for the product over the life of the product. I expect to pay for the NAV data, but since distribution costs are close to zero the NAV data had got to be a huge cash cow for Garmin.
 
I needed an IFR navigator so I chose the GTN 650. The only data base I subscribe to is the NAV database. The rest of my panel is all Dynon, 3 HDX screens, except the audio panel (PS Engineering BT8000). It costs me $299 a year for the Garmin NAV database. The other subscriptions are not worth having because I get them free from Dynon.

If Dynon made an IFR navigator I would not even look at any Garmin equipment. It’s not that the equipment is bad. The problem is they plan on getting more for the software and NAV updates than you paid for the product over the life of the product. I expect to pay for the NAV data, but since distribution costs are close to zero the NAV data had got to be a huge cash cow for Garmin.

The price of admission to IFR flying is not free at any level, Dynon likely can't afford the costs/ROI on developing their own navigator.
The cost's associated with managing databases across multiple platforms for Garmin obviously is not free.
And I haven't checked Dynon prices lately, but they are not "free" either (maybe "free" after you purchase a subscription).
 
At the risk of starting a firestorm all you need in the plane are current charts. My current data in my EFB does that .. If I don’t update my GTN650 NAV Data I make sure the fixes and approaches in my out of date Navigator match that on my EFB. I also own Garmin Stock.
 
At the risk of starting a firestorm all you need in the plane are current charts. My current data in my EFB does that .. If I don’t update my GTN650 NAV Data I make sure the fixes and approaches in my out of date Navigator match that on my EFB. I also own Garmin Stock.

I don’t know about a firestorm, but what you do is just fine if all you fly is in VFR conditions. Having current NAV data is a requirement if you fly IFR. I’m sure that you are already aware, but your statement didn’t state the obvious.
 
What I’m saying is even though my database is out of date, the data that I’m using for my flight matches with the current data on my EFB. Therefore I feel I am good to go IFR
 
What I’m saying is even though my database is out of date, the data that I’m using for my flight matches with the current data on my EFB. Therefore I feel I am good to go.

I think all that is required is a current set of charts, and approach plates, for legal IFR flying.
As long as you have it with you and available (on your EFB), I agree. You are good to go.
 
What I’m saying is even though my database is out of date, the data that I’m using for my flight matches with the current data on my EFB. Therefore I feel I am good to go IFR

Marty,

That might be ok for an ILS approach using ground based LOC/GS navigation signals to move the needles, but flying RNAV (GPS) approaches is a different matter.

The GPS IFR navigator can only calculate and provide the correct and safe lateral/vertical guidance if the internal navigation database data defining the approach procedure is current and correct.

As explained in the Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM):

RNAV (GPS) and Baro−VNAV systems must have a manufacturer supplied electronic database which must include the waypoints, altitudes, and vertical data for the procedure to be flown. The system must be able to retrieve the procedure by name from the aircraft navigation database, not just as a manually entered series of waypoints.​

While the AIM is not regulatory, here is the AIM position on that:

This publication, while not regulatory, provides information which reflects examples of operating techniques and procedures which may be requirements in other federal publications or regulations. It is made available solely to assist pilots in executing their responsibilities required by other publications.​

Steve
 
…and

…and I am pretty sure that the navigator knows the expiration date and will only allow use of outdated charts for 70 days past expiration…
 
You need to dig a little deeper:
G3X bundle $149
GTN Nav data $299

Nobody gives away NAV data for IFR.

Walt, can you verify that the $149 bundle for G3X includes the IFR approach plates? The website does not mention the plates as being part of the bundle. Thanks.
 
Walt, can you verify that the $149 bundle for G3X includes the IFR approach plates? The website does not mention the plates as being part of the bundle. Thanks.

Yes, the IFR approach plates are included in the FliteCharts database - which is included in the $149 U.S. Database Bundle.
US Database Bundle.png

Steve
 
Yes, the IFR approach plates are included in the FliteCharts database - which is included in the $149 U.S. Database Bundle.
View attachment 22804

Steve

Is there a page on the Garmin site that defines EXACTLY what "Flitecharts" is? I've looked for quite awhile without success. There are many references to it, what bundles it is included with etc., but no specific definition.

How exactly does it differ from IFR/VFR charts. It would be great if there was some bulleted chart. Best I can tell the only difference is georeferenced plates. Garmin provides georeferenced plates on Fltplan GO on my iPad, so is the $149 just to move that from my lap to the G3X?

Is there more?
 
If I'm not mistaking Flightcharts are NAS plates while IFR/VFR charts are sectionals.
 
The price of admission to IFR flying is not free at any level, Dynon likely can't afford the costs/ROI on developing their own navigator.
).

I find it a strange thing, that the cost is not hardware, nor software. The huge cost is obtaining the (currently required) TSO. GRT currently offers very reasonably priced software that allows their EFIS units to fly LPV approaches anywhere in the US. But they are not TSO’d, and GRT correctly notes that their use should be restricted to practice approaches under vfr, or emergencies.
 
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