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GRT Servo Install and A&P Log Book Sign Off

twcroy

Active Member
All,

I asked my A&P to install a GRT autopilot system during the last condition inspection in May. I provided the GRT instructions, mounting brackets, and servos from GRT. After two weeks of labor and many calls to GRT since the drawings didn't match my 9A well, he had the servos mounted. I asked him to stop at that point since the labor was twice as much as the cost of the servos and brackets. He cut the labor cost in half for me thankfully.

I ran the wires before the A&P began installing the servos, so now I'm at the point of connecting it electrically, switches, re-connecting control surfaces, and testing, etc.. A guy at GRT said the install normally takes 1-2 days and they normally do them in a half day. GRT offered to complete the install for me. I'll be moving to MI in June, so I may check back with them.

My issue is my A&P IA told me in 35 years he has never only partially installed any system and does not want to leave it as a partial install. He's never seen that done before and doesn't think it's allowed or could be entered in a log book. I checked with another A&P and EAA who said it's no problem. EAA also told me I can do anything I want with my plane as long as an A&P satisfactorily completes the condition inspection each year. Question is, has anyone seen anything in the FAR or have other suggestions I could cite to my A&P to ease his mind? I think he's concerned about liability, but if it's documented as an incomplete installation and not to be operated until it's satisfactorily and completely installed, I don't believe he will have any liability concerns. He disconnected the control surfaces before he let me fly it after the condition inspection, and he wants to either take out the servos or complete the install. He also still has my log books.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. He's a good A&P, but he rarely works on experimental aircraft, mine is the first, and he's only done routine maintenance I think on one other recently.

Tim
 
Don't stress it on either side ..

All,

I asked my A&P to install a GRT autopilot system during the last condition inspection in May. I provided the GRT instructions, mounting brackets, and servos from GRT. After two weeks of labor and many calls to GRT since the drawings didn't match my 9A well, he had the servos mounted. I asked him to stop at that point since the labor was twice as much as the cost of the servos and brackets. He cut the labor cost in half for me thankfully.

I ran the wires before the A&P began installing the servos, so now I'm at the point of connecting it electrically, switches, re-connecting control surfaces, and testing, etc.. A guy at GRT said the install normally takes 1-2 days and they normally do them in a half day. GRT offered to complete the install for me. I'll be moving to MI in June, so I may check back with them.

My issue is my A&P IA told me in 35 years he has never only partially installed any system and does not want to leave it as a partial install. He's never seen that done before and doesn't think it's allowed or could be entered in a log book. I checked with another A&P and EAA who said it's no problem. EAA also told me I can do anything I want with my plane as long as an A&P satisfactorily completes the condition inspection each year. Question is, has anyone seen anything in the FAR or have other suggestions I could cite to my A&P to ease his mind? I think he's concerned about liability, but if it's documented as an incomplete installation and not to be operated until it's satisfactorily and completely installed, I don't believe he will have any liability concerns. He disconnected the control surfaces before he let me fly it after the condition inspection, and he wants to either take out the servos or complete the install. He also still has my log books.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. He's a good A&P, but he rarely works on experimental aircraft, mine is the first, and he's only done routine maintenance I think on one other recently.

Tim

To make everyone happy, you might just ask him to remove whatever he wishes and get it done later.

It can in fact be done in a day.

Someone that has done it before on an RV get it done.

James
 
Tell him to read the very first paragraph of FAR 43.

To paraphrase... It says that FAR 43 does not apply to any aircraft which has an experimental airworthiness certificate (FAR 43 is what dictates certification requirements regarding mechanics working on aircraft).
It is for this reason that your operating limitations specify who can do the annual condition inspection. There is no certification requirement for who can do maint., repairs, or modifications on an E-AB aircraft.
 
Yes but he is still required to make a maintenance entry per part 91 for the work he performed. He is only required to sign for the work he did, like installing the servo or whatever other provisions he installed and leave it at that.
If the aircraft is not safe for flight for some reason then he needs to make that statement as well.
 
I provided the GRT instructions, mounting brackets, and servos from GRT. After two weeks of labor and many calls to GRT since the drawings didn't match my 9A well, he had the servos mounted.

Two weeks???????????:confused::eek:
 
I've been an A&P/IA for a long time and the endemic duh factor would make me hesitant to turn over an RV to any pack of spam can bangers.
 
Tim, looks like you are in the DC area. Perhaps one of the many RV builders in the area might be able to help you for a day to help complete the install. What airport are you at? The GRT autopilot is easy to install and I'm in agreement with aerhed's comment.
 
Tim, looks like you are in the DC area. Perhaps one of the many RV builders in the area might be able to help you for a day to help complete the install. What airport are you at? The GRT autopilot is easy to install and I'm in agreement with aerhed's comment.

Mike,

I'm at Hyde Field / W32 in Clinton, MD next to Potomac Airport. That would be great. I'm not in a rush to complete it, but I would like to finish it when it's most convenient for anyone interested in helping. If not, no worries, as I said I'll be heading to Plainwell, MI next summer, about 30 miles south of Grand Rapids, MI. Hopefully, the snow will be gone by then ;)

Thanks for all the replies and help everyone, Tim
 
Plainwell

Tim,
If for some reason you need help in the spring let me know. We fly to Plainwell for breakfast every Sunday weather permitting.

Gary
 
Gary,

Many thanks. I hope to run into you sometime in Plainwell or Zeeland next year.

Have a great Thanksgiving,
Tim
 
This thread was interesting, just wanted to throw out a bit of trivia: Did you know that there is NO requirement from the FAA or anyone else to even HAVE log books? Yet we often seem to treat them as some sort of gospel.
 
Maybe you don't have to have a "log book", but you must have "aircraft maintenance records".
Your operating limitations state "Condition inspections must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records...............".
To say nothing of the requirement for me to log the airworthiness certificate issuance. FAA Form 8130-6, "Application for Airworthiness Certificate", block VIII, F. states: "This inspection recorded in aircraft records."
Want an airworthiness certificate? Better have some kind of records.
 
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I know that Mel, I have been tossing all my stuff into an old kitty litter box, figured you can sort it all out when you give me an AW cert:D
 
Yes but he is still required to make a maintenance entry per part 91 for the work he performed.

Hmmm. FAR 91.407 address the requirement for ".... the maintenance record entry required by 43.9 or 43.11...". But 43.1(b) says part 43 does not apply to experimental aircraft. So the 91.407 requirement is not applicable.

Is there some other part of FAR 91 that requires a mechanic to make a maintenance entry for work he performed?
 
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