What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

NTSB report on Steve Fossett regarding use of parachutes

N520TX

N520TX

Well Known Member
I read through the NTSB report that Doug has linked to on the home page. The following sentence caught my attention - "The pilot gave no indication that he planned to perform aerobatic maneuvers, and he was not wearing a parachute, which is required for aerobatics."

On my most recent BFR, my instructor told me that on his latest CFII refresher, he was told the same thing by the FSDO rep. Both he and I had always been under the impression that if you are SOLO, no parachute is required. Has there been a change in interpretation of the regulation ?

91.307(c)
Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds--
(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
 
I thought the same thing when I read that report... Solo flight = no parachute required. Can anyone else chime in?
 
It states if you are carrying any person, then you are required to have chutes which means solo flight = no chute.


(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to --

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by --

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with ?61.67 of this chapter.
 
I love the way

a flight insructor can excecute spins without a parachute with a student..Hmm some CFI's I trust others not so much..:)

Yup no chute....I hope not as I have a lot of illegal videos on youtube other wise

Frank
 
frankh said:
a flight insructor can excecute spins without a parachute with a student..Hmm some CFI's I trust others not so much..:)

Yup no chute....I hope not as I have a lot of illegal videos on youtube other wise

Frank
Click to expand...

Horizontal spins, that's what I've been doing! Oh, wait, I'm not a CFI and I fly a -9. Did I say that out loud?
 
Overhead Break?

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
Click to expand...

Does (1) above mean overhead breaks with a passenger require parachutes?

Does (2) above mean agressive take-offs with a passenger require parachutes?

Makes you wonder.

Tom
RV-7A, N175TJ, Flying
 
FWIW, we are always wearing chutes in our club's gliders when giving instruction, acro or not - club policy. We provide chutes as part of membership, we have more chutes than seats and have our own rigger.

In order to practice spins in the 2-place trainer (ASK-21), we have to attach lead weights to the tail and move the CG aft enough to get it to spin. Otherwise, it's too polite to really spin. IMHO, the glider has better handling qualities with the CG aft.

The spin qualities of the glider aren't that bad with the spin weights on - it will rotate if you really hold the wrong inputs in, but recover is quick. I've flown other 2-place gliders that have less polite spin entry qualities, i.e., dropping a wing and rolling onto the back FAST.

I am looking forward to acro training in the glider, particularly inverted flight.

TODR
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
I am looking forward to acro training in the glider, particularly inverted flight.
Click to expand...

I can fondly remember laying face up, under a shady tree, in a park close to the airport..........

until I got rid of those intense feelings of nausea, & urge to vomit...

Yes, the good old days of "glider acro"... :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
tacaruth said:
Does (1) above mean overhead breaks with a passenger require parachutes?

Does (2) above mean agressive take-offs with a passenger require parachutes?

Makes you wonder.

Tom
RV-7A, N175TJ, Flying
Click to expand...

No and could be.

Sec. 91.303

Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight--
(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;
(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;
(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;
(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;
(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or
(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.

This has been beat up in other threads.
 
L.Adamson said:
I can fondly remember laying face up, under a shady tree, in a park close to the airport..........

until I got rid of those intense feelings of nausea, & urge to vomit...

Yes, the good old days of "glider acro"... :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Click to expand...
My first bit of spin / unusual attitude training in the Citabria pretty much resulted in the same thing. Just over an hour of spins, "falling leaf" exercises, extreme nose high stalls, etc did the trick.

Note the barf bag tucked in to my chute harness. I am proud that it did not get used.

BDR-acro_web.jpg


TODR
 
N520TX said:
91.307(c)
Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds--
(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
Click to expand...
There is a tendency to confuse and merge the rules regarding aerobatics and the rules regarding parachutes. They are two separate things.

The rule above is quite clear and it DOES mean that an overhead break with a bank of more than 60 degrees does require parachute usage, to be legal, if there is passenger aboard.

The rules about aerobatics are not clear at all. They have to do with where you can do aerobatics and people have been violated for quite normal seeming maneuvers because the inspector thought what was being done was not necessary for normal flight and it was being done over populated areas or in airways. One case that sticks in my mind involved a jump plane that was using steep banks to achieve high descent rates after the jumpers departed.
 
Last edited:
Copilot Crewmember

So if the person next to you in your two seat RV is your copilot, then they are a crewmember? Then you don't have anyone aboard who isn't a crewmember.

Hans
 
The RV series of aircraft do not require a co-pilot. The person who is NOT the pilot, is not a crew member.
 
Last edited:
I still beg to differ,

bkilby said:
It states if you are carrying any person, then you are required to have chutes which means solo flight = no chute.


(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to --

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by --

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with ?61.67 of this chapter.
Click to expand...

Unless someone can claim that as the sole occupant that I am not a crewmember then I'll buy this. Any person other than crewmember says it all.
Saying "any person" and stopping is like a 10 second sound bite. Doesn't tell the whole and correct story.
 
bkilby said:
(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by --

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with ?61.67 of this chapter.
Click to expand...
The only rating requiring spin training is the CFI rating, so doing spins with a private student without chutes is a no-no.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top