Shop Setup Question

Hey all.

I've got an approximately 25' x 25' shop at my new house that I'll be building an -8 in over the next couple years.

I apologize if this is the wrong subforum to ask the question in, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.


What can you all recommend based on your experiences in terms of a setup for this space? Should I have several narrow (2' x 8' ish) workbenches along the wall? One big solid (4'x8'?) workbench in the middle? Several?

I've got plenty of space for storage on shelves, etc.
I've got the shop heated (Buffalo, NY) for the cold winter.
I've got plenty of new overhead lights I just put in.
I've got a nice big compressor and plenty of electrical outlets.

I'm just curious what I should to do arrange the work surfaces. Is it more intelligent to have wider or narrower workbenches, and in the middle or against the wall?

Obviously, any pictures or rudimentary floorplans of well setup shops would be great, but descriptions are fine too. Thanks everyone for the input in advance.

I'm sure everyone has their own preferences. I originally decided that because I had "plenty of space" that most of my equipment and tables would be stationary. over the past year, ichave gradually rebuilt all but one to have heavy duty wheels. I find it so handy to be able to leave sub-projects on their bench an jusT move to make space for the "thing" I am currently working.

YMMV

You might consider putting casters on the workbenches, and then they are easy to relocate as needed.

I would have at least one large ----- 3 or 4 by 7 or 8 foot work area, if you can do it, the smaller benches are all a lot of folks have used, so the bigger one will be a luxury, not a necessity.

I would inset a large back rivet plate into the center of the big bench----my setup has a 16" by 24" plate -----and it is removable with a carpeted insert to replace it, makes a fully carpeted surface then.

Good luck, sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this, carry on.

I also have a three service carts on wheels, one has my tool box on it, one has all my electrical connectors and tools on it, and the third is used for whatever is needed at the time. I bring the cart to where I am working at the time.

Daesharacor said:

What can you all recommend based on your experiences in terms of a setup for this space? Should I have several narrow (2' x 8' ish) workbenches along the wall? One big solid (4'x8'?) workbench in the middle? Several?

I'm just curious what I should to do arrange the work surfaces. Is it more intelligent to have wider or narrower workbenches, and in the middle or against the wall?

Click to expand...

Like most things regarding building a RV, there isn't a one size fits all answer.

With each RV-10 kit arrival, I arranged my two standard EAA benches differently. I suspect you will do the same too.

I think the dimensions of the EAA workbenches are just about right. I would think 2' is too narrow and 4' is too wide.

The construction of the RV-10 wings are a little different than the other RV models. I ended up putting both benches end to end to accomodate the length of the wings and horizontal stab.

I didn't move things are frequently to justify the expense and effort of putting them on wheels, but some folks to appreciate that ease of movement.

Now that I'm in the hangar, I have five work surfaces and am always running out of space for projects.

bob

Thanks for the responses.

Mike S said:

I would inset a large back rivet plate into the center of the big bench----my setup has a 16" by 24" plate -----and it is removable with a carpeted insert to replace it, makes a fully carpeted surface then.

Click to expand...

What did you make the back rivet plate out of? Would you put it in the center of the workbench, or on one of the edges?

Daesharacor said:

Thanks for the responses.



What did you make the back rivet plate out of? Would you put it in the center of the workbench, or on one of the edges?

Click to expand...

I think you'll want to put it toward the center, so whatever you're riveting (usually floppy skins) will be supported well no matter where on the part the rivet is. Wherever you put it, make sure it is WELL supported. If you don't, it's difficult to get good results. I tried using it directly on top of my workbench, inset in a loose piece of plywood with a hole the exact shape of the plate. (My thought here was to make the plate removable when it wasn't in use to avoid the possibilityof drilling into it.) I ALWAYS ended up with proud rivets with that setup. The same plate with the same piece of plywood used on the concrete floor always yielded good results.

Daesharacor said:

What did you make the back rivet plate out of? Would you put it in the center of the workbench, or on one of the edges?

Click to expand...

I bought a piece of 3/8" steel at a local recycle yard. It was new, and in good condition.

I centered it in my bench, both directions. I marked the edges to show the location of the plate when there was a part on the table, you do not want to hit a piece of airplane skin with the rivet gun when it is over carpet, not the plate.

My entire table top is removable, 1/8" masonite board, and indoor/outdoor carpet on it, with the cutout piece in the middle rigged the same. The carpet and masonite add up to the same thickness as the back rivet plate.

I can flip over the top, and have a hardboard surface if needed, or a carpeted surface. And either can have the rivet plate or not.

I'd recommend you use the Tony Bingelis method of mounting some of your workbench tools. See an example on this page. By mounting your drill press, band saw, vice, belt sander, ribbon sander, etc. on one or more square tables with casters, you can free up a lot of wall space, plus make them somewhat portable. I made two of them. Also, by mounting electrical outlets in the ceiling, you free the work table to be away from the wall without those electrical cords being in the way. This idea was described by Tony Bingelis (now deceased) in his first book, which is available from Aircraft Spruce or the EAA.

I'd also suggest some form of security system, especially if your shop is detached from your residence. I won't tell you what I have, but I do have two different types and one of them is not tied in to the power grid. One detects movement outside the door and warns the intruder of detection before he/she enters.

A small refrigerator for the sealants and adhesives as well as liquid refreshments is a nice addition, also. A good AM/FM radio and an XM radio and a small TV really add to the comforts of your new "man cave" as my wife calls my shop.

I assume you have plenty of insulation in both the walls and ceiling since you mention you are in a northern climate. I was amazed at how little heat is required for my 600 sq ft shop here in the south. I do have a small through-the-wall air conditioner which I run in the summer at about 75 degrees which really helps with reducing the humidity in my shop. I paid extra for a really nice well insulated garage door. I've forgotten all the R-values, but since it was just a shop, I didn't go overboard on insulation, just the standard wall and ceiling fiberglass bat insulation.

You mentioned a big air compressor. You will get different opinions on air line piping. I had PVC in my garage and after learning of the dangers of PVC for compressed gasses, I installed plain old "black iron" 1/2" carbon steel pipe in my shop. (I have expressed my technical reasons for staying away from PVC piping for compressed gasses in another thread and don't intend to respond to any flaming arrows in this thread. I have nothing against copper. At the time I built my shop, steel was more attractive to me in terms of cost and ease of installation. Just my preference. You can also just use air hoses as some have done.) I have one wall mounted reel, but for 90% of my work, I use either of two drops with regulators and quick connect fittings. I really like the quick connect fittings and air hose supplied by Cleaveland Aircraft Tool. You will get all kinds of opinions on air piping, but my advice is slope the piping about one inch per 10 feet so condensate will flow away from your compressor, and design each drop so you can drain the condensate before it goes through the pressure regulator. Also, have a drain at the end of the line. I vent my air piping system at four points and in the same sequence at the start of each day that I'm in the shop.

Good luck! And be flexible in your shop layout. You will find that some of the layout will change as you progress through the RV project.

Hello Rob,

Great that you are starting your project there.

I used a folding table covered in carpet to build most of the Emp. I did not embed the back riveting plate but found that some extra carpet on either side to support the work allowed me to move the plate anywhere on the table it was needed. The EAA work benches I put along the garage/shop wall filled up quickly with tools etc. For big work (canopy) I used a 4x8 sheet of plywood set up on a couple saw horses. Find some combination that works well for you.

Here is a thread answering some work bench questions from another 8 builder.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=68606

pk

+1 for at least some wheels. I'm kinda like Mike, except I use about a 14x16x 3/4 piece of steel. One side smooth and the other side has 3/16 holes on edge, corner, and center for rivet sets. Also, a couple countersinks drilled in for this n that. It's so heavy you could rivet in your lap if you had to.

Set up one bench to be a "dirty bench" for when you have to work on oily/greasy parts and hammer on stuff.

Then you won't worry about dirtying or denting a bench top that will be used for clean new aluminum work.

An cheap and easy replaced bench top layer is also a good idea. Something like 1/8 hardboard. Just rip it off and replace it when it gets b*****d up...

I built my slow-build -8 in the family 2 car garage. It is slightly oversized, but not huge. I ended up rearranging the floorplan at least 4 times to accomodate the various stages of the build. Don't get to set on a given layout - you'll likely need to adapt as you progress through the various phases of the construction.
My 2 cents....

I've got a four foot wide bench that's awkward. My kitchen has a 42" wide island that I can reach across, almost. For me, I'd say that a 40" width would be about right, unless you need wider for some portion of the construction.

Ditto on the wheels - that helps so much, even with my smaller tables!

Good lights are essential. Get more than you need, and put them on different circuits.

Windows are nice to have, too, if you can do it.

Dave

Bench

I have been happy with the bench I built - it is 3' by 8', the frame for the top is 2x4 on edge with cross pieces of 2x4 at 2', 4', and 6'. On top of that I put a piece of 3/4" plywood. On top of that I put a 3/4" piece of mdf board. I cut out a 1' square for the riveting plate out of the mdf. My riveting plate is polished 1/2" steel (used a piece of 1/4" plywood to shim it up even with the table top).

The beauty of this set up is that I regularly drill and cleco things right to the table. I just recently unscrewed the mdf board and turned it over so now I have a fresh finish and I will continue to drill into it as needed. When this piece gets too many holes in it I will just buy a new piece and replace it. It is clear you can build the entire airplane without replacing the mdf. Next airplane gets a new piece of mdf!

I also have a 3' x 3' steel bench (3/8" steel top). This bench is heavy! I have my vice mounted to this as well as my shrinker (this is my "dirty" bench). I also have a Tony Bingelis tool table with a drill press, grinder (scotchbrite wheel), band saw and small vertical sander. I don't use the sander hardly at all.