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Engine Starting Thoughts

FredMagare

Well Known Member
I have a carbureted YO-360-D1A (2.4 hours old). Battery is a PC-680

For the second time, I have depleted the battery before the engine could catch.

Might anyone have any start recommendations that would help or should I just install a priming system? I have the priming system parts (including the electric solenoid) but have copper line instead of SS. Definitively stainless lines or will the copper be sufficient? Does anyone have pics of their setup from the gascolator and primer line routing?

Thank you if you are able to assist.
 
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help

a carbed engine will prime nicely while cranking. cold start, crank while giving it two pumps of the throttle. should start right up. hot start no need to prime. crank while slowly in creasing mixture from idle cutoff. :)
 
Maybe it is time

Maybe it is time to check timing and other things like magneto grounding/ignition switch, etc.
 
Priming system

I have an O-360 and I installed the solenoid from Vans. I purchased SS lines from Tom at TSFlightlines and installed them on the top of the engine. They run to #1 & #2 cylinders and look like FI lines. I replaced the fuel pump switch with a OFF-ON-MON switch.

For start I have the throttle at idle, the mixture about 1/2 and the fuel pump on. Hit the start button and move the fuel pump to MON, usually 1 - 2 seconds is enough, and I release the switch back to ON. The engine starts at idle, no rapid acceleration from too much fuel, less chance of flooding.

I am traveling so I can not post images, but I will when I can. Contact Tom he can make up what you need in SS.
 
Just think of it like an old car, pump the throttle while cranking, no need for a priming system.
 
Using the accelerator pump seems logical but I didn't want to risk an airbox fire. Is that just a low-likelihood event?

It’s a very low likelihood event if you only pump WHILE CRANKING (sorry for the all caps, but that can’t be emphasized enough….).

How old are your mags? Louise’s R-6 was hard to start back when she’d leave it on the ramp in College Station (not exactly the arctic) in the winter. Turns out that the mags were well past their “sell by” date - and overhaul got them firing right snappy again!

Paul
 
Primer lines.......

I have the priming system parts (including the electric solenoid) but have copper line instead of SS. Definitively stainless lines or will the copper be sufficient?
If you decide to go with a primer system, copper lines are fine. They actually may be less prone to breaking than stainless steel as they are a little more pliable. I have a copper-line priming system on my O-320 carbureted engine but also use the throttle pump....WHILE I am cranking (see the article by Mr Dye...:eek: ).

It sometimes takes a while to figure out what an engine needs to get it started and, oddly enough, they can all be different. One would think that they would be the same as far as starting. You just need to find what works for YOUR engine. Trial and error are sometimes how you find that out....and taking advice from everyone about how their engine starts....and having a good battery charger and an easy way to get to the battery to charge it. I have a charging access fitting in SuzieQ. I've only had to use it once....but that was enough to be thankful for having it....:)

If you find yourself cranking the engine for an extended period of time, stop occasionally and give the starter a rest. They can get burned out....just like people if overused......;) The tendency is to make the dang engine START....:mad:
 
If you decide to go with a primer system, copper lines are fine. They actually may be less prone to breaking

I bought my plane with around 250 TT. It had 2 copper and one aluminum primer lines. By 350 TT a copper line had broken, strain hardened from vibration maybe, dunno. Now I don't know if all 3 were aluminum and 2 were replaced at some point with copper, or visa versa.

Anyway, at 660 TT I finally just removed the whole primer system because I simply never use it. To start the engine I give two slight pumps of the throttle while cranking, and with practice you learn how much to pump to keep the RPMs low at start.
 
Over 2300 hrs on copper primer lines. Rebuilt and put copper back. They have to be done properly. I don’t have a choice with an Ellison. You have to have a primer system.
 
It’s a very low likelihood event if you only pump WHILE CRANKING (sorry for the all caps, but that can’t be emphasized enough….).

How old are your mags?


Paul

"New" engine (Lycoming Y-designation so...). New mags. I've gotten it started before but it has been sitting a little bit. With the advice I'm getting, I think it's just poor technique on my part.
 
You might check your mags --possible retard breaker instead

of impulse coupler? If so and no SlickStart (shower of sparks), it will be difficult to start. Had this happen to me on an overhauled RV-10 engine. First year of ownership was miserable. Finally noticed no impulse coupler noise and checked the mag model. Slickstart fixed the problem.

Ron
 
of impulse coupler? If so and no SlickStart (shower of sparks), it will be difficult to start. Had this happen to me on an overhauled RV-10 engine. First year of ownership was miserable. Finally noticed no impulse coupler noise and checked the mag model. Slickstart fixed the problem.

Ron

Have had several good starts already. I'm probably just using poor technique. The battery is on the tender. I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

Thank you.
 
a carbed engine will prime nicely while cranking. cold start, crank while giving it two pumps of the throttle. should start right up. hot start no need to prime. crank while slowly in creasing mixture from idle cutoff. :)

Going to give this method a try. Thanks for the input, Ed.

UPDATE: This is the method that worked except I needed three pumps of the throttle!

Thank you for all the tips and suggestions gentlemen.
 
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One method you might try is to give the throttle three or four good pumps then leaving everything alone for a full 60 seconds before cranking. This gives the fuel in the intake manifold sufficient time to evaporate before attempting the start.

We've found this method particularly useful during cold weather starting on a normally aspirated engine.
 
One method you might try is to give the throttle three or four good pumps then leaving everything alone for a full 60 seconds before cranking. This gives the fuel in the intake manifold sufficient time to evaporate before attempting the start.

We've found this method particularly useful during cold weather starting on a normally aspirated engine.

I’m sorry, but I gotta call you on that - it’s a real good way to start an AirBox fire if you subsequently get a backfire! With an updraft carburetor, pumping the throttle without cranking just dumps the fuel right down into the the filter/AirBox and it pools there - doesn’t really get into the intake manifold.

It might very well be working for you - but I’d hate for newbies to start pumping all that fuel into their air boxes…..

Paul
 
One method you might try is to give the throttle three or four good pumps then leaving everything alone for a full 60 seconds before cranking. This gives the fuel in the intake manifold sufficient time to evaporate before attempting the start.

We've found this method particularly useful during cold weather starting on a normally aspirated engine.

That may work in New Zealand. But it just doesn't work up here on top........:D
 
Starting methods....

That may work in New Zealand. But it just doesn't work up here on top........:D
It's because fuel Down There swirls the other way.....:D

I prime for 3 seconds (no chance of external fire as the fuel goes directly into the intake manifold) and pump throttle once WHILE starting. And no priming a hot engine. Again: that is what works on my engine; trial and error will find what works on yours but don't burn your airplane to the ground.:eek: I have seen airbox fires as well. Not pretty. Fuel on the ground was on fire with one of those. Someone behind me watching as well yelling CRANK CRANK CRANK!!:eek:
 
It seems you've got this all figured out - fuel does indeed flow up on this side of the world. :D

And Gasman - yes it does work there just as well as it works here. :)

Allowing the fuel to evaporate most certainly works and I've not experienced any fuel pooling in the airbox to cause a problem because any fuel that might end up there - and its not going to be much - can easily drain out. So no, I don't agree that this is a risky method to start an engine.

You do have a drain hole in your filter box, right?
 
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