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Private Airstrip Zoning

crabandy

Well Known Member
It's really no surprise I'm looking to the VAF community for help with this, throughout my build and beyond the people and advice have really made things happen for me.

I rushed my "special use zoning permit" to the county just before they shut their doors due to the Covid several months ago. Depending on weather/farmer/contractor I would like to break ground next fall through next summer.

We purchased our property to build a house, airstrip and hangar on. Now we just need to make it happen. I've planned out the runway with a dirt contractor who used to be on the county planning commission and was also approved by the airport coffee drinkers association. I'm attempting to do this right for the long term, I want this runway to be there for a LONG time and need the paperwork to be in order.

It's now happening fast, the letters to the neighbors already went out and the commission meeting is next week. We've already delivered my wife's famous homemade cinnamon rolls and visited with all those affected by the zoning change except 2 which are out of town. I think this portion on the zoning application is a "go."

I'm not a lawyer but the initial planning commission findings are very favorable:

IMG_7853-L.jpg


But Conditions 2, 4 seem rather restrictive, the rest I would comply with 150%.

IMG_7856_heic-L.jpg


I'm not too worried about 4, depending on their interpretation of "initiated and utilized" I can bribe a friend with a Cub to land anytime or drag some dirt with my old Allis WD.

Condition 2 worries me. A landing strip just for "family members" doesn't seem reasonable, I'm sure I don't have to explain this the the VAF people. One adjacent neighbor has already checked into flight training and his brother in law flys a Pa-32 around. I'm not sure if a logical explanation will suffice to the county or if I need to get a lawyer. I'ld really like to handle this on my own, partly $$ but mostly because I don't think any local lawyer would have the proper knowledge and definitely not the heart of the matter in mind.

A restriction to just family members seems unreasonable for a private airstrip, I'ld like to think I have a lot of airplane friends that would want to stop by. Realistically that's a handful a year, maybe doubling the 3-6 operations a month on average.

I would definitely appreciate thoughts and advice from those that have gone before me.

Thanks!
 
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I have not gone before you, but I would ask the county....

If I was applying for a permit to build a driveway to my house, would it be restricted to family member use only??
 
I think 2 should be more like:

2: The landing strip shall be limited for use as a private landing strip for family members or users pre-authorized by family members.
 
"Private" VS "Public"

I think the intent is to prevent future public use, so how about inserting: Family Members (& Their Guests).
 
The reason for #2 may be based on state aeronautical code. It would be in Alabama, where the code spells out different land requirements and licensing for public and family use.

For reference, here are the relevant code sections. The airport license is granted the by the Dept of Transportation; municipal or county permission, including zoning, is a separate matter.

(b) Private Use Airport that is used primarily by the licensee but available for use by others upon specific invitation of the licensee. To be licensed in a private use category, an airport shall meet without exception the minimum standards of effective runway length of 1800 feet. The minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied for hard surface runways and a minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied to turf or sod runways. Invitation of licensee refers to a specific offer and acceptance type of invitation, not an invitation offered to the general public. A holder of a private airport license cannot advertise in a newspaper or other publication that all airplane owners or certain aircraft type owners are invited to be the licensee?s guest at this private airport. An invitation to land on or use the facilities of a private airport must consist of an invitation and a response. Communications between individuals, not a general offer to come to the airport, must exist.

(b) Personal-Use airports are not required to be licensed. A Personal-Use airport is a restricted landing area on private property, designated for the use of the property owner and his, or her immediate family.
 
1. Aren't we all just one big happy family ?
2. If your family wants to use the landing strip to have 20 friends over, is that not your family using it?
 
We are all just brothers and sisters in Christ. :)

Dan, I am alway impressed by your responses, knowledgable and with references.
 
1. Aren't we all just one big happy family ?
2. If your family wants to use the landing strip to have 20 friends over, is that not your family using it?

Sadly it does not work that way. One outside person complains that the strip is being operated outside of the permitted rules and they can get it shut down. Better to fix the issue upfront as others have suggested.
 
Are there any other private airports in your area----folks who could provide you some guidance? Someone who has actually "been there, done that".
 
Are there any other private airports in your area----folks who could provide you some guidance? Someone who has actually "been there, done that".

There are quite a few private airports in my area, All the owners in my county I've talked to have no idea about the county zoning. Most are on the sectional and haven't had any issues.
Half of the adjoining counties are very strict not allowing any new private airports and trying to zone the existing ones away. The other half aren't zoned and have no issues.
 
The reason for #2 may be based on state aeronautical code. It would be in Alabama, where the code spells out different land requirements and licensing for public and family use.
For reference, here are the relevant code sections. The airport license is granted the by the Dept of Transportation; municipal or county permission, including zoning, is a separate matter.
(b) Private Use Airport that is used primarily by the licensee but available for use by others upon specific invitation of the licensee. To be licensed in a private use category, an airport shall meet without exception the minimum standards of effective runway length of 1800 feet. The minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied for hard surface runways and a minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied to turf or sod runways. Invitation of licensee refers to a specific offer and acceptance type of invitation, not an invitation offered to the general public. A holder of a private airport license cannot advertise in a newspaper or other publication that all airplane owners or certain aircraft type owners are invited to be the licensee’s guest at this private airport. An invitation to land on or use the facilities of a private airport must consist of an invitation and a response. Communications between individuals, not a general offer to come to the airport, must exist.
(b) Personal-Use airports are not required to be licensed. A Personal-Use airport is a restricted landing area on private property, designated for the use of the property owner and his, or her immediate family.

I'm glad Texas doesn't have these kinds of restrictions. My 1500' X 20' runway would never pass muster.
 
The reason for #2 may be based on state aeronautical code. It would be in Alabama, where the code spells out different land requirements and licensing for public and family use.

For reference, here are the relevant code sections. The airport license is granted the by the Dept of Transportation; municipal or county permission, including zoning, is a separate matter.

(b) Private Use Airport that is used primarily by the licensee but available for use by others upon specific invitation of the licensee. To be licensed in a private use category, an airport shall meet without exception the minimum standards of effective runway length of 1800 feet. The minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied for hard surface runways and a minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied to turf or sod runways. Invitation of licensee refers to a specific offer and acceptance type of invitation, not an invitation offered to the general public. A holder of a private airport license cannot advertise in a newspaper or other publication that all airplane owners or certain aircraft type owners are invited to be the licensee?s guest at this private airport. An invitation to land on or use the facilities of a private airport must consist of an invitation and a response. Communications between individuals, not a general offer to come to the airport, must exist.

(b) Personal-Use airports are not required to be licensed. A Personal-Use airport is a restricted landing area on private property, designated for the use of the property owner and his, or her immediate family.

Thanks Dan, I'll dig further at the state level. I've been in contact with the state division of airports and the response I received was private airports are up to the county. I think it was more of an "I don't really know" answer.

I've also been in contact with our county and read through the zoning regulations, I was more familiar with the private airport special use zoning than the Planning Director. He had to revisit the zoning documents I referenced to eventually agree with me. Our county zoning lumps the airports into the same category as Quarry's, shooting clubs, churches, landfills etc.

More education and recreation right......
 
Our county zoning lumps the airports into the same category as Quarry's, shooting clubs, churches, landfills etc.

More education and recreation right......

Welcome to my world! Many of the smaller communities are learning with each project. The more info you have and neighbors who will come to the meetings, the better chances you have. It doesnt hurt to "run into" members of the commission in social places - maybe tough currently, but schmoozing doesnt hurt.

It sounds like you are covering all your bases and have everything figured out so best of luck and Im sure you will love your new airstrip!
 
Local County Zoning is the key

If you haven't done so already, you need to study the most current adopted edition of the County Zoning Regulation (or the appropriate jurisdiction having the authority). That will identify what the rules are and what path is open to you and what the hurdles are.

I developed a 21 lot, 117 acre fly-in community airpark (SC47) in 1995-1996 in Greenville County, SC. Learned as I did it and it came out ok in the end, should have done about half a dozen thing differently and it would have come out even better.

Zoning was the key then. Now there are extremely more restrictive land development requirements related to storm water management. I believe this is true across most of the Country. It would probably double the development expenses to comply with today's requirements (in '95 dollars). These storm water management requirements are applicable here to both private single resident properties or PUD's (Planned Unit Developments) with varying levels of standards. Every jurisdiction in each State/County/Municipality will likely have different applicable requirements and restrictions; Counties generally are the determining authority.
 
I purchased my airstrip in Tennessee (2TN7) Wolfcreek back in 2007. It is on the FAA charts as a private restricted airport where permission is needed to land. The previous owner had to deal with the county zoning people, FAA, and DOT. I am not aware of any restrictions that the county required when they approved it back in 2005. I remember the original owner telling me about the local neighbors being afraid jets would be flying in on this 2400 foot grass strip.
george
 
Wow, this is a really cool thread! Are there any good resources describing general steps to build your own private runway? I always imagined one day when I win the lottery, I'd buy some land out in the middle of nowhere and build my dream 4000 ft. X 100 ft paved lighted runway. But I have no clue where I'd even start. Permits, zoning, legal wrangling all seem to be county-specific. You wouldn't even know which office to write to until you found a lot. Then there's how to actually do the work, clear out trees and boulders, level the soil, reinforce it, run electricity out, etc. ****, I wouldn't even know how many acres you would need to have in order to safely fit an airstrip. Where do you figure out how to do all this stuff?
 
If you don?t mind sending me your contact info I?ll see if I can help.

I?ve also talked to the state aviation dept, (Dave if I recall...) my understanding/impression was more that the state actually didn?t have any rules as opposed to him not knowing about it. As far as changes to the conditions I would say it is all Franklin Cnty?s draft and see if you can negotiate alternative language. There is history with the land OWI was built on, but it?s been long enough it may not be a factor in the county?s decision process anymore. If you don?t know about that I?ll share what I was told.

In Shawnee county, my understanding is that a non-pilot owns the runway at Sunset and strictly sold lots. Not sure any lot owners that might have the history on that strip would be too helpful. Buena Tera was built by Rudy & Mike. They would be helpful if you wanted to pick their brain. I can get you contact info for them.

I?m aware of someone in Douglas Cnty that couldn?t get it approved and as a result has a really long driveway. Then someone else who did get it approved, but I think he?s in Miami Cnty, I?d have to check.

I?m going to be starting my strip in Coffee which doesn?t have any zoning at all! 😀
 
Andy,

Congrats on the purchase. I hope you can get #2 sorted out, I'm one of those who would like to "stop by"!

Fred
 
Good for you

It's really no surprise I'm looking to the VAF community for help with this, throughout my build and beyond the people and advice have really made things happen for me.

I rushed my "special use zoning permit" to the county just before they shut their doors due to the Covid several months ago. Depending on weather/farmer/contractor I would like to break ground next fall through next summer.

We purchased our property to build a house, airstrip and hangar on. Now we just need to make it happen. I've planned out the runway with a dirt contractor who used to be on the county planning commission and was also approved by the airport coffee drinkers association. I'm attempting to do this right for the long term, I want this runway to be there for a LONG time and need the paperwork to be in order.

It's now happening fast, the letters to the neighbors already went out and the commission meeting is next week. We've already delivered my wife's famous homemade cinnamon rolls and visited with all those affected by the zoning change except 2 which are out of town. I think this portion on the zoning application is a "go."

I'm not a lawyer but the initial planning commission findings are very favorable:

IMG_7853-L.jpg


But Conditions 2, 4 seem rather restrictive, the rest I would comply with 150%.

IMG_7856_heic-L.jpg


I'm not too worried about 4, depending on their interpretation of "initiated and utilized" I can bribe a friend with a Cub to land anytime or drag some dirt with my old Allis WD.

Condition 2 worries me. A landing strip just for "family members" doesn't seem reasonable, I'm sure I don't have to explain this the the VAF people. One adjacent neighbor has already checked into flight training and his brother in law flys a Pa-32 around. I'm not sure if a logical explanation will suffice to the county or if I need to get a lawyer. I'ld really like to handle this on my own, partly $$ but mostly because I don't think any local lawyer would have the proper knowledge and definitely not the heart of the matter in mind.

A restriction to just family members seems unreasonable for a private airstrip, I'ld like to think I have a lot of airplane friends that would want to stop by. Realistically that's a handful a year, maybe doubling the 3-6 operations a month on average.

I would definitely appreciate thoughts and advice from those that have gone before me.

Thanks!

Crabandy,
Glad you've taken this step.
Hope it works out great.
One question; how long are you planning on making it?
Daddyman
 
Crabandy,
Glad you've taken this step.
Hope it works out great.
One question; how long are you planning on making it?
Daddyman

Approximately 2500X60 although I'll likely get 2600. I do plan on a little tree trimming at one end and dropping the powerlines underground at the other.
 
If you don?t mind sending me your contact info I?ll see if I can help.

I?ve also talked to the state aviation dept, (Dave if I recall...) my understanding/impression was more that the state actually didn?t have any rules as opposed to him not knowing about it. As far as changes to the conditions I would say it is all Franklin Cnty?s draft and see if you can negotiate alternative language. There is history with the land OWI was built on, but it?s been long enough it may not be a factor in the county?s decision process anymore. If you don?t know about that I?ll share what I was told.

In Shawnee county, my understanding is that a non-pilot owns the runway at Sunset and strictly sold lots. Not sure any lot owners that might have the history on that strip would be too helpful. Buena Tera was built by Rudy & Mike. They would be helpful if you wanted to pick their brain. I can get you contact info for them.

I?m aware of someone in Douglas Cnty that couldn?t get it approved and as a result has a really long driveway. Then someone else who did get it approved, but I think he?s in Miami Cnty, I?d have to check.

I?m going to be starting my strip in Coffee which doesn?t have any zoning at all! 😀

Sent you a PM with my info.

I know the county has been burned at the airport and also with a un-approved dirt-bike track.

I've spoken to 2 different strips in Douglas county, so far they've retained their zoning but have to now re-apply every 5 years I believe.

Looking forward to it.
 
Wow, this is a really cool thread! Are there any good resources describing general steps to build your own private runway? I always imagined one day when I win the lottery, I'd buy some land out in the middle of nowhere and build my dream 4000 ft. X 100 ft paved lighted runway. But I have no clue where I'd even start. Permits, zoning, legal wrangling all seem to be county-specific. You wouldn't even know which office to write to until you found a lot. Then there's how to actually do the work, clear out trees and boulders, level the soil, reinforce it, run electricity out, etc. ****, I wouldn't even know how many acres you would need to have in order to safely fit an airstrip. Where do you figure out how to do all this stuff?

Just start with answering 1 of your questions and go from there.

Step 1 for me was a new house for the wife.......We started saving and looking for land for the house, if it just so happened to fit a runway even better.

Length depends on lots of factors, my personal thoughts were 2500' was my "Gold Standard" to make the runway usable to almost any small aircraft on all days. If I built a strip I wanted it to be usable on a 100* day with a 20 knt crosswind after a rainstorm. 2500' is basically a 1/2 mile and on normal section lines. After seeing properties in person I used the "measure" feature on google maps to plot out and measure proposed runways on different properties. Found several places that would've sufficed as 1800-2000 crosswind or east-west runways but weren't ideal for a runway or a house. I also used the measure feature on google maps to reference airports where obstacles next to the runway felt too close and those that felt just right.

When we found the property we bought, my wife really liked it and it fit all our requirements for location etc. It was also 1/2 mile long and Kansas flat. Before we put in an offer I spent about a week back and forth discussing things with the county planning director, we're lucky to have a one that doesn't mind taking the time for people. I was originally going to try and buy 30 acres being 1/2 mile long, in the end the county commission would look much more favorably on an airstrip application that was in A1 zoning which is 40 acres or more. So we made an offer on 40 acres.

4 different friends all recommended the same dirt guy, we walked the property and talked about options for the runway and drainage. I worked 4 different versions for the runway/house/driveway before I came up with the plan I proposed to the county.

I wanted the runway on the east edge of the property, Dirt Guy said we wouldn't be able to use culverts big enough to last long term and liked the runway on the west side of the property for drainage. West side of the property put the runway next to a tree row, I would have to space the runway from the tree row leaving a 75x2500' strip of extra grass to mow. Also didn't look forward to landing on it with a westerly crosswind. This would put the house and hangar on the east side of the runway and hangar opening west.

A big factor for me was the hangar door facing east for the Kansas sun and wind, It was recommended as the only option from a knowledgeable friend and after having a west and east facing hangar had to agree. I ended up with a RWY 2/20 configuration that started on the northeast corner of the property that will divert and direct the water via a waterway more efficiently without culverts to the creek just south of our property that my dirt guy approved. It also lets me meet the zoning setbacks for buildings, gives me an east facing hangar door and meets my minimum 75' obstacle to runway center-line distance from the house/hangar. Dirt guy is building our driveway/runway at the same time, scraping the topsoil for the driveway and dumping the scraper over the runway.
 
Insurance

Be sure to check with your property owners insurance company. They may have similar restrictions to the County zoning related to un-related people landing on your property. Think someone hitting a gopher hole, damaging a plane/person and getting litigious.
 
Wow, this is a really cool thread! Are there any good resources describing general steps to build your own private runway? I always imagined one day when I win the lottery, I'd buy some land out in the middle of nowhere and build my dream 4000 ft. X 100 ft paved lighted runway. But I have no clue where I'd even start. Permits, zoning, legal wrangling all seem to be county-specific. You wouldn't even know which office to write to until you found a lot. Then there's how to actually do the work, clear out trees and boulders, level the soil, reinforce it, run electricity out, etc. ****, I wouldn't even know how many acres you would need to have in order to safely fit an airstrip. Where do you figure out how to do all this stuff?

One of the best resources comes from the TX Department of Aviation. Most other states will refer you to that guide for building your own strip. Each county and municipality will have different requirements. As the population centers expand, the regulations come with the people.
 
Thanks everyone! We just had our county planning committee zoning hearing, our special use zoning permit passed with all yes’s. Now on to the county commissioners, odds seem to be in our favor.

Only 1 letter of complaint of property values, planning commission had already mostly ruled against the complaint and my wife’s cinnamon roles and an explanation of what our small grass strip would consist of took care of the rest.

We were also able to amend the aforementioned restrictions to:
-comply with applicable FAA Guidance on private strips
-is limited for non commercial purposes (pay for use of)
-the landing strip shall be maintained in good working order
-The zoning goes with the land.

Things I believed helped our positive outcome:
-my wife’s cinnamon rolls and visiting with the neighbors
-Thanking the board members for their service and explaining our past residency and continued residency
-Referencing KDOT’s airports division’s position that FAA guidance on private airports is restriction enough
-Having local private strip data and letters on the small amounts and type of operations expected. My example was a private fishing pond in your back yard, you want a few friends to enjoy it with your express permission.
-3 local long term resident pilots to Share their comments in person, one has served on several local advisory boards
-a local developer’s advice to use key language, “the proposed restrictions cause an undue hardship and de-value the improvements I’m making to the property.
 
Congrats

Wow that's a great result, well done!

Now, are you going to share that cinnamon roll recipe with us?

And take your wife out to dinner to celebrate! :)
 
When is the Cinnamon Roll fly in? I am thinking anybody on VAF is a friend and a good way to open up the airstrip. :D
 
Finally dry enough to move some dirt. We cut trees and limbed for weeks last fall thinning out the hedgerow that had gotten out of control, first step was removing the stumps and pushing everything into a pile. There is also a low area to be addressed next to the hedgerow.
The driveway will be next to the hedgerow, scraping dirt to hard pan as a good base for rock and the extra dirt for the runway. The house will be somewhere close to the large pile of trees in the field, halfway between the hedgerow and the runway. The runway is “penciled in” as a black line on the aerial pic.
 

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Consider a compromise. Seek a variance just for the family clause. However make it time limited in duration followed by an automatic expiration date. They are worried about too many people using. The clause gives you time demonstrate you won’t abuse. The amendment may need rewording - e.g., no commercial use, private use only, etc. the key is the rewording - I think something can be figured out that allows a limited number of visitors while giving them some comfort that non-family use will not be abused.
 
No real progress besides a water meter over our wet summer, finally dry enough again but not sure it’s gonna last. Mowed the area for the airstrip/driveway/house/hangar. Thin section mowed shows the north and south view of the future 2600ish runway, wide section shows the middle part for the house/hangar intersection. We’ll see what happens in the next couple weeks.
 

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I would go for sheep or goat pasture.
Cow patties are not fun to clean from the airplane.
Don't ask how I know.
 
Alas the goats would probably be standing on top of any unattended airplane, does it count if I have any of the aforementioned animals in my freezer?

County approved the zoning without the use of animals, now just have to get it built.
 
Exciting surprise when I flew over today and it’s not even Christmas yet!!!
 

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Exciting surprise when I flew over today and it’s not even Christmas yet!!!

Your whole project is awesome Andy!! I learned to fly at Vinland and had so much fun. Hope to come check it out one of these days when I'm back in town.
 
Starting to take shape, a lot of dirt moved and a LOT more to go.
 

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Strip just done

Here in rural Texas, it was really easy to put in an 1800' strip for my RV7A. Just do it! Then work with FAA to get it on the sectional (XS95) and build a 50x40 hangar. The hardest part was mowing & grooming the turf runway, shooting hogs that violate my airspace (this was fun indeed) and, after much frustration from the feral hog community, putting up 'hog netting' around my 40 ac property. The 'taxiway' is still a bit bumpy from prior hog damage, but winter rye grass has helped. I was VERY worried about the tiny wheels of my RV but fear not...this plane does really well on grass (and others should agree). My little French bulldog loves the strip! Come for a visit any RV'ers or others... you shoot stuff or choke varmints...whatever it takes.
 

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Here in rural Texas, it was really easy to put in an 1800' strip for my RV7A. Just do it! Then work with FAA to get it on the sectional (XS95) and build a 50x40 hangar. The hardest part was mowing & grooming the turf runway, shooting hogs that violate my airspace (this was fun indeed) and, after much frustration from the feral hog community, putting up 'hog netting' around my 40 ac property. The 'taxiway' is still a bit bumpy from prior hog damage, but winter rye grass has helped. I was VERY worried about the tiny wheels of my RV but fear not...this plane does really well on grass (and others should agree). My little French bulldog loves the strip! Come for a visit any RV'ers or others... you shoot stuff or choke varmints...whatever it takes.

Mark,
Looks Awesome! Is the identifier TX95?
 
More grading and some driveway rock.
 

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This might be a really, really dumb question: Why aren't there more paved personal airstrips? Is it just cost? Or are there regulatory hurdles (either from the FAA or from local governments) that are hard to comply with?

I mean I'm sure it's much more expensive to lay down asphalt than to just mow the grass, but is it really that much more expensive? I've never paved anything so have no idea even an approximate cost. $10K? $100K? $1M? $10M? No clue.
 
This might be a really, really dumb question: Why aren't there more paved personal airstrips? Is it just cost? Or are there regulatory hurdles (either from the FAA or from local governments) that are hard to comply with?
I mean I'm sure it's much more expensive to lay down asphalt than to just mow the grass, but is it really that much more expensive? I've never paved anything so have no idea even an approximate cost. $10K? $100K? $1M? $10M? No clue.

I put down asphalt several years ago. Cost was just under $50K (20' X 1500')
The way my ground moves here, even with a good base, the edges continue to crack, making it high maintenance.
 
Surface...

Andy - totally jealous and you can bet I'll be dropping in.

As an aside, for those of you with grass strips, what type of grass (or grasses) did you use and/or prefer for coverage? Bermuda, Bentgrass, Fescue, Saw, Rye, Zosia, Poa, Coastal, etc. ( Green? :) )
 
Mark,
I was looking at your hanger door. Did you design and build? If so, I would like to get more info. Maybe PM me, if you don't mind.
 
Andy - totally jealous and you can bet I'll be dropping in.

As an aside, for those of you with grass strips, what type of grass (or grasses) did you use and/or prefer for coverage? Bermuda, Bentgrass, Fescue, Saw, Rye, Zosia, Poa, Coastal, etc. ( Green? :) )

Think it kinda depends on your local climate and rainfall, I think I’m going to go with a Buffalo mix. I’ve still got a couple more people to talk to. My understanding is Buffalo does fine with extra water, also drought and requires less fertilizer and mowing. The mowing aspect is really appealing, most say their Buffalo runway would be usable without any mowing, 3-4 times a year is usually sufficient. It’s also a sod forming grass that makes for a durable smooth surface. It’s 7-10x the price per pound of other seeds but the lbs per acre are much lower.
I’m on the wetter side (+/- 40ish inches per year) of Ks, also can get really hot and dry. Wetter years the cooler season grasses would have to be mowed several times weekly during the spring, about 4 acres every time, I think they can also be clumpier.

Locally their is a variety of grass runways (fescue, brome, bluegrass, Buffalo), it’s really hard to compare since the original surface peel and yearly maintenance are all different.

Brian, can’t wait to have visitors!
 
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