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Condition Inspection on Purchased RV

RV6_flyer

RV6_flyer

Well Known Member
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What are owners that purchased their RV aircraft paying for the once a year "Condition Inspection" required by the Operating Limitations?

IF you are paying someone to do maintenance on your RV aircraft, what do they charge per hour to do work on your Experimental Aircraft?
 
RV6_flyer said:
What are owners that purchased their RV aircraft paying for the once a year "Condition Inspection" required by the Operating Limitations?

IF you are paying someone to do maintenance on your RV aircraft, what do they charge per hour to do work on your Experimental Aircraft?
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When I purchased my -6A two years ago, it was out of annual, so I paid a local mech to do a pre-buy/CI and it was about $1200.

The next annual I did under supervision of an A&P - the CI portion was about $850 + another $700-800 for parts/repairs that needed to be done, again, under supervision from a mechanic. (Could have foregone that, but I wanted adult supervision, and I learned a lot.)

This year's annual with a different A&P was a baseline of $1200, and he was extremely thorough. Found SEVERAL squawks that needed to be addressed - and I also took care of a couple of upgrades while the airplane was down.
 
So your “couple of squawks” this latest CI, were they ones not found in prior years or new ones that had developed ??
 
I paid $750 for my last CI, although that did include installing an AntiSplat oil cooler shutter and a pair of Flyboy jack points. It took a few days, but I was out of town for a few weeks anyway and told him to take his time. That price did not include cost of the oil, filter, jackpoints or shutter. I could get it cheaper if I did the work of pulling the floor and rear bulkhead.

The previous one was more because he also replaced a cracked brake reservoir and installed a new red cube (I did the wiring of it). The one before that included replacing the boost pump.

This particular A&P doesn't charge by the hour, he charges by the job. No doubt the time spent is a component of that, but I've never asked him that.
 
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$850 plus parts. Done by repeat offender builder A&P/IA. 1400 hrs, 31 year old 6A….600 hours last 5 years . Carburetor/Slick/FP prop 😀
 
pilotkms said:
So your “couple of squawks” this latest CI, were they ones not found in prior years or new ones that had developed ??
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That is an interesting question and one which I have been asking myself with regard to the "big one"

It's possible that it was just missed in previous inspections. It's also possible that it was seen and dismissed. There really isn't any way for me to know.

A couple of the other squawks were new, and one was a carryover that I was monitoring from the previous annual.

When you're not a builder or A&P you are subject to the opinions of the experts you work with. Not all expertise is equal, obviously. And I don't know what I don't know so I won't cast aspersions on the past work, but I must say I was surprised to learn of the new one.
 
I gave $1k for the ispection, plus parts and $100/hr for other stuff.

Other stuff this go around was a new starter, hard wiring my GDL39 from the bagagage area to the panel mounted 696 and stiffining rt main wheel pant.

Also discovered a crack in the crotch strap attach point so that was replaced.

It's important when I bemoan the X-thousand-dollar annual that I remember the inspection was a reasonable fee.

Also, important on threads like this, I'm in North Texas. Prices are regional.

This was my 6th time through the process. Happily, I had no ups or exttas ONCE. And THAT is one more time than my certificated experience. :)
 
On a related note, I had a local shop call me just the other day asking about the in's/outs of doing an inspection on an RV7 the shop took in. They basically had no idea what they were doing, looking at, legalities, etc., and I knew the mechanic calling me, fresh out of A&P school. You can probably guess what the quality of that "inspection" will be.

I don't do inspections on Citations for a reason, I'm smart enough to know my limitations.
I believe that to be really good at something you have to specialize, which means turning away work that you don't feel supremely qualified to do.

PS: I charge a quite a bit more than what's been quoted above, you can decide if a shop is worth the premium.
I value my time and expertise; I think it's worth something.
 
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I paid $800 for the inspection labor and I did most of the work. My new-to-me mechanic is an IA and his dad was a AP. He also bore scoped my cylinders and checked the SB's which I down loaded and printed for him. He was very thorough, and I was happy to see that he used a flower pot to check and adjust the mag timing instead of sighting the dot on the starter with the fly wheel marks.

It would be nice to drop my plane off at Walt's and have him do the inspection. It would be worth it to me but I do enjoy doing the work.

BTW, I also happily paid in cash and gave a gratuity to my mechanic.

-Marc
 
I’ve had five different A&P (A&P/IA)’s do my CIs and paid anywhere between $350 to over $5,000. Frankly the least expensive was the most thorough. I’ve discovered that if you can find a good A&P who’s also a builder you’re likely to get a better CI.

I personally prefer to do the majority of the work myself with an A&P tackling FWF. However the gentleman I now use is both an A&P and EAA tech counselor and has taught me a lot about working on my aircraft. At CI time he thoroughly reviews my log entries and inspects everything I’ve done during the year plus all outstanding SBs, and the CI pre-work I accomplished. In my opinion this is the best way. I know the RV as well as the original builder and frankly, with guidance, addressed numerous build quality concerns.

One lesson I’ve learned over time, the more eyes looking at your aircraft - generally the better. But remember, there isn’t much standardization (other than FWF expectations) when dealing with the A&P community. Every A&P, A&P/IA has their own inspection process and priorities. I prefer those who are also builders since they’re more likely to use their build expertise in the inspection process.
 
per hour rate

Nobody has yet has answered Garys question about a per hour rate.

Our local AP/IA at Whiteman (KWHP) that specializes in expermentals charges $75/hr. He doesn't have a fixed price for C.I.'s or pre-buys, it's just whatever the number of hours he works (x) his rate. He does allow the owner to assist, but will not sign off work he hasn't done. Very thorough but fair. What he doesn't know about RV's, he'll usually come over and ask my opinion since I've been around the block a few times with RV's.

He's built several glass airplanes, has a beautiful RV-4, and has been doing RV inspections and pre-buys for years.

There's a data point for you Gary.

Laird
 
Laird said:
Nobody has yet has answered Garys question about a per hour rate.

Our local AP/IA at Whiteman (KWHP) that specializes in expermentals charges $75/hr. He doesn't have a fixed price for C.I.'s or pre-buys, it's just whatever the number of hours he works (x) his rate.

Laird
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A good response here. I suppose a better question would be how many hours does your CI take, is that a 8-hour work or a 24-hour work, does it include some maintenance i.e. brake pads change or those are charged separately? And I was wondering if Walt is willing to share his average/typical time spent on a CI on for an average RV.

My local shop estimated 16-20 hours for a 14 or 10 since they are a bit bigger and his shop rate is at $115.
It takes me at least 24-30 hours to do my own inspection which also include some maintenance (rotating tires, brake, vacuum, etc)
 
Tankerpilot75 said:
...One lesson I’ve learned over time, the more eyes looking at your aircraft - generally the better.... I prefer those who are also builders since they’re more likely to use their build expertise in the inspection process.
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I agree and have been doing this to every single one of my aircraft since I started owning 4 decades ago. My RV8 was a very good build and every RV mechanic/builder that saw it also said so. Still the owner did 10 inspections on it, my pre-purchase inspection was done and the next annual too (total 12 inspections) and when the next one came, the new-this-time inspector found it was missing 12 bolts in the wing spar !

After speaking with Vans it was confirmed they had to be installed so my local mechanic and airplane builder got her 6'2" body in there and installed them in a few separate sessions (she had to come out and rest for a few hours so her spine would come back to its original shape :eek::D), and she didn't have to cut any sheet metal like Vans recommended as the solution to this issue.
 
Experience 1: $1000 flat rate CI, no matter the time it took to do the basics, to include detailed engine AD and SB research (not required), very little effort on my part. $50 per hour plus parts for extra work required (brake pads, SB compliance work, etc.) and I perceived them to be generous with their time for the extras.

Experience 2: $1200 for first CI, where I shadowed and learned everything that IA wanted to check annually. After that, and after working on / upgrading the plane for a year under their supervision (asking lots of questions), I then did all work for the CI's (under supervision, in their hangar) from then on. Then the price was $400 for hangar rent / tool rental / logbook signature.

Experience 3: $1695 flat rate for CI, $125 per hour for extras (their standard shop rate).
 
My flat rate for the inspection: 7/8/9 $1495; 10/14 $1995 (website is a bit out of date on prices)
All repairs are extra @ $120/hr.
If for some reason access is restricted (builder mods/fancy interiors) to normal inspection areas, then it costs more.
Repairs I feel are necessary are also not negotiable.
Because many accidents are engine related I generally spend a fair amount of time, a full day at least, FWF.
Two days typically on airframe.
Assuming nothing major, I need the airplane for at least a week, sometimes two.
Don't do owner assisted maintenance, don't have time to work and teach.
 
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Wow, Walt. I think your prices are VERY reasonable. I don’t want to give you any ideas, but I thought they’d be double that. It’s kinda crazy for me to travel that far for a CI, but it’d probably be worth doing at least once for the benefit of a VERY experienced new set of eyes on it.

As others have said, even the most conscientious of builders, owners, and inspectors can miss things over the years. I live at an airpark full of A&P’s and IA’s and RV/Rocket builders and I seem to learn a little something or see a slightly different perspective from every one of them.
 
I charge a flat rate for the inspection, repairs are charged by the hour. If you want to assist or stand over my shoulder, I'll charge more.
I recently had a un certified 172 owner set up a bench in my hangar and start changing a cylinder on his plane, it needed to be replaced. The annual was pretty much done. I threw him out and refused to sign off the annual.
This same guy got a "deal" on a Mooney C that was sitting for years, he wasn't happy when I wouldn't help him get a ferry permit. The wing spar in the wheel well was exfoliated way past limits. He couldn't understand what a big deal that was. I told him that the best solution was to buy a serviceable wing, the repair is very labor intensive, there was a serviceable wing available for $8k. He thought that was too much money. I guess his life wasn't $8k.
 
RWoodard said:
Wow, Walt. I think your prices are VERY reasonable. I don’t want to give you any ideas, but I thought they’d be double that. It’s kinda crazy for me to travel that far for a CI, but it’d probably be worth doing at least once for the benefit of a VERY experienced new set of eyes on it.

As others have said, even the most conscientious of builders, owners, and inspectors can miss things over the years. I live at an airpark full of A&P’s and IA’s and RV/Rocket builders and I seem to learn a little something or see a slightly different perspective from every one of them.
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This is why it's always a good thing to have a extra set of eyes looking at it. In Part 121 certain things such as flight controls require two A&P signoffs.
 
In the Seattle area, rates range widely. Independent mechanics that are semi-retired tend to charge the least, typically $50/ hour and up. The established shops charge more, in the range of $100- $150 / hour. Not many of those willing to work on an experimental, though.
Some that I know charge a flat rate, $750- $1200 for the inspection, with an hourly rate for anything extra, and some just charge their hourly rate.
I'm hearing a lot of my airplane owner friends looking for mechanic contacts. It seems like mechanic availability is becoming an issue for some owners, and for owners of experimental aircraft especially so, since many mechanics won't touch an experimental.
 
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RV6_flyer said:
What are owners that purchased their RV aircraft paying for the once a year "Condition Inspection" required by the Operating Limitations?

IF you are paying someone to do maintenance on your RV aircraft, what do they charge per hour to do work on your Experimental Aircraft?
Click to expand...

My condition inspection was $1800 and they budget 18 hours for it. #california

Shop rate is $135/hr.

There are certainly cheaper places, but I wanted to a) have it done on my home field by a shop that not only works on E-AB but has experience with RVs, and b) establish a relationship with a local facility since I'm 99% pilot and 1% mechanic.

On the plus side, I've heard of many pilots having a hard time getting an appointment with a shop at all since mechanics are in short supply, plus long lead times for parts, etc. I was able to get my CI done quickly and the quality seems to have been good. They were familiar with all the Van's service bulletins, the PMag and LSE electronic ignition, and other items that are not necessarily found on certificated aircraft.

--Ron
 
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