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RV-8 Pneumatic Tailwheel Mod

n38139

Well Known Member
I installed my new Bell Tailwheel conversion and I installed a Matco Pneumatic tailwheel on also. A couple of photos are attached.

I flew the airplane this afternoon and it is really smooth and quiet compared to the hard rubber tire. This might not be for everybody but I am going to try it and see how I like it.




 
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I asked the question here a few months ago about who's installed a Matco tailwheel and never got any replies. So, I installed one a couple of weeks ago and it is indeed smoother than the stocker. It is a bit harder to steer on the ground, but it's not a problem. The only problem with this unit is that there is very little air volume in the tube and that makes it a bit tricky to get the pressure correct. Also, due to the small air volume, you have to add air almost weekly. The bearings are light years better than Van's unsealed P'sOS.

Heinrich Gerhardt
 
A friend of mine installed one on his 8 and really loved it, but... With the small volume of air in it it stranded him one day.

After coming out from a $100.00 hamburger and proceeding to leave he realized the tailwheel had gone flat and was not safe to fly.

Luckily there was another 8 builder on the airport and loaned him stock Van's one to get home.

I would suggest you carry your old stock one with you as a spare just in case.

I purchased one of the Matco wheels also and haven't put it on yet. I monitered it for a while and it does steadily and regularly loose air.

I wonder if it could be filled with some gel or something like they do with mountain bike tires. If it would still remain as smooth rolling it might be a good solution.

Just as a note, my friend has not put the Matco wheel back on yet.

Ted
 
Tailwheel Mod

Well, I have had a pneumatic tail wheel tire on my Cessna L-19 for 14 years. I will admit that it does require servicing but for me, that is no issue. I always carry a spare wheel/tire and bicycle pump in my L-19. I will also carry my old hard rubber tire in my 8. This mod may not be for everybody but I like the ride and unless it is totally unreliable I will keep it.;)
 
Steve keep us posted on the reliability. I bought one of these recently for my Rocket and am hoping that flats are few and far between. I've been thinking about filling it up with Tire Slime as well.
 
tubes??

Do these Matco pneumatic tires have tubes in them or could tubes be added to make them even more reliable?

I know they mount differently to the frame, but has anyone thought about or actually tried Scott tailwheel assemblies on RVs?
 
Tailwheel

I have a Scott 3200 on my L-19 and also have leaf springs so the mounting is different. However my friend has a Cessna 180 that has the (for the lack of a better term) "pipe" type spring like the RV. I am guessing you could adapt it somehow but you might pay a price on speed and looks. 3200 tailwheel assemblies are pretty expensive.

I believe somebody made a comment about not steering as well. I did not notice that at all. In fact with the different angle of the Bell fork, I think it steers better. I am one of those who keeps the chains somewhat loose.

If I encounter problems or issues I will let everybody know. ;)
 
I installed my new Bell Tailwheel conversion and I installed a Matco Pneumatic tailwheel on also. A couple of photos are attached.

Where did you buy the Matco Pneumatic tire/wheel? I'm only seeing them with the whole fork and everything.
 
Call Matco

If you call Matco direct they will sell you one. As I recall I couldn't find it on their website either.
 
I had a flat once...

I had a flat once with a Maule tail wheel on my Luscombe and didn't know it until landing roll out. It got my attention. I taxied up to the FBO very slowly, but found they had no on field maintenace and no one had tube repair kit either. I weighed my options and decided I had to get back home, so I taxied out very slowly once again with full forward stick. This made the flat a lot less noticable. I held the brakes and applied throttle. The tail came up, I slowly released the brakes, and off I went with the tail up. I flew back to my home field and was apprehensive about the landing, but decided that if I did it on pavement at the previous airport, surely I can land at mine on grass. I did a fairly respectable wheel landing and held the tail off as long as possible then taxied back to the hanger again with full forward stick. It really turned out to be a non event. However, as others have said, carrying a spare would be a good idea.
 
mt bikers can change a flat in less than 2-3 minutes. I bet something like this tailwheel could be changed in under 10 minutes if it does go flat and you have a spare tube. I wonder if a small pony bottle of air could be carried, or even a CO2 tank- like for paintball. you could have 2 pounds of liquid CO2 in a 8 or 12 oz tank, and a direct attach fitting for under 5 pounds and you'd never run out of air with that thing.
 
Quicker fix

mt bikers can change a flat in less than 2-3 minutes. I bet something like this tailwheel could be changed in under 10 minutes if it does go flat and you have a spare tube. I wonder if a small pony bottle of air could be carried, or even a CO2 tank- like for paintball. you could have 2 pounds of liquid CO2 in a 8 or 12 oz tank, and a direct attach fitting for under 5 pounds and you'd never run out of air with that thing.

Way too involved, just take some starting fluid.. :eek::D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSYGvvDGX-M&feature=related

Do not try this at home!

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
My Matco Experience

12/6/06 - 1035 hours

With spacers and axle sleeve it cost $95 plus $10 shipping to the door.

Installation: The only tricky part is it uses a 1/2" axle instead of the 3/8" axle use with the Van's wheel. I did not want to drill out the fork to 1/2" for two reasons. 1) In case the Matco wheel did not work out, 2) So the towbar would still fit over the bolt end and nut.

To solve this problem, some 3/8 ID - 1/2" OD bushing material was purchased from Aircraft Spruce (P/N 03-16900). A bit of work is required on the bushing to get the axle through it and to get it to fit in the sleeve supplied by Matco. Also, some AN960-8 regular and light washers were needed to get the width to match the fork because the spacers provided were not quite wide enough.

The Van's wheel has a diameter of about 5-5/8" while the Matco wheel is 6". The Matco tire BARELY fits in the fork. But is does fit. I have done five landings with no rubbing so far.......

Observations:

* Looks Cooler
* About One pound Lighter
* Has high quality sealed bearings
* Tire and tube can be replaced for $16 + shipping


Update 5/4/07 - 1087 hours

The Good-----

The new tailwheel is working out well. It rides and handles better that the Vans unit.

The Bad-----

I suspect, however, the tire life will not be nearly as good as the solid Vans tailwheel. If this one last more than 250 hours it will be a shock. The Vans tire lasted over 1000!

The new wheel does seem a bit light duty for the task, especially when the plane is heavily loaded. Matco publishes a spec. of 660lbs static load and a 1980lb load limit. Hope not to pinch the tube and have a flat somewhere out in the sticks......

The Ugly----

In the tailwheel there is a little pin that comes out to keep the tailwheel engaged with the rudder. It seems to have worn out allowing the tailwheel to caster during landing and takeoff. This can make for some exciting ground handling characteristics! This was discovered at the rather windy and gusty Lee Vining California (O24). As a temporary field fix, the pin was flipped inverted until a new one arrives. New pins can be had from Vans for $6.51. Part number WD-102C.

Update 4/27/08 - 1223 hours

My suspicions about the durability of the little tire came to fruition. After a landing in Yearington Nevada (the middle of nowhere) enroute to a vacation in Steamboat Colorado, I discovered a flat tailwheel. The tube had been pinched. I chocked this up carrying a heavy load and perhaps to a slightly under inflated tire. It was Friday morning, what to do.....
I decided to fly with the flat. It would require two landings until we could repair the tube. As fortune would have it, Matco is located in Salt Lake City, Utah so we could stop by on the way home and buy (and install) a new tube. They were very helpful and accommodating and even gave us the factory tour. The tire was destroyed by the two landings but the wheel was fine. All fixed up with an extra tube in had, all was well again, for now....

Fast forward to our trip to Baja. We were returning and encountered a VERY strong crosswind at San Felipe, a required stop to depart Mexico. The landing and departure went ok, but on arrival at Calexico to clear US customs, there it was again, a flat tailwheel tire. That sealed the deal, back to the industrial caster supplied with the kit. It's too bad because the little tire handled much better than the solid tire and looked great too. Further research revealed the tire is only rated to 250lbs. No wonder!

tailwheel_right.jpg


Typical Baja View

baja.jpg
 
I wonder if the foam they fill tractor tires will give the best of both worlds. While the tires will be solid, they won't be as hard as the solid rubber stock and will not go flat.

Anyone have any experience with the tire foam?
 
Examples of normal tools carried by cyclists:...
The only problem with these tools is that in my experience, the reason a tail wheel goes flat is the pilot takes off with an under inflated tail wheel. Upon landing the tire spins up quickly, cutting the valve stem in the wheel. Thus you really need a new tube.

What have the rest of you experienced?

BTW, I'm sticking with the Van's hockey puck tail wheel because I don't like messing with flats.
 
Tire rating

If I remember correctly I was told the tires design application was for downhill skateboard use.

Hardly the same criterea for an airplane tailwheel!
 
Tires

If I remember correctly I was told the tires design application was for downhill skateboard use.

Hardly the same criterea for an airplane tailwheel!

Been wondering about that myself. My guess is that the Matco supplied tire has some of the wrong attributes to be a tailwheel. The softer rubber and aggressive tread would serve you well on a skateboard or kid's scooter. On the tail of an airplane I suspect that it "sticks" a little too well, causing tire damage and failure. The Van's supplied tailwheel is a harder compound and lacks tread. When really pressed, it will slide before it hurts itself. Chuckwn mentioned having an issue with the tailwheel "pin," could it be that the damage was caused by a higher than designed side load generated by the new tire?

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
check the pressure weekly

Like I said earlier in this thread, the air volume in these things is tiny and therefore need weekly refilling. Also, because they have so little volume, inflating is a little tricky. I use a gas station-style inflator with hose and built-in gauge, which I got from Harbor Freight for $10 on sale and have pretty good control over how much air goes in. Without that, it would be difficult to get accurate results. Just checking the pressure with a pencil-type gauge lets about 5 psi out of the thing!

I have around 35 hours on mine and like the way it works. The bearings are lightyears better than the stock Van's units and it weighs less.

Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, 233 hours
 
How about 7"

I just got off the phone with Matco, and they have an un-listed wheel/tire combination, a 7" x 1.75:
WHEEL: WHLTW37 (3.7" diameter bead seat)
TIRE/TUBE: TIRT7X1.75 (gray in color)

George at Matco told me that this tire has much better volume than the little T6P (that everyone has been discussing).

Does anybody have any experience with this item? It does NOT fit the standard Van's fork, but it might fit an after-market fork. I have a Flyboy's fork on order, so I'll make some measurements....

I've been flying the 8" Matco tire/wheel on a custom Flyboy's fork - but it's a bit heavy and long, so I'm still experimenting.

G.
 
Soaring at low speeds

Wondering if anyone has found a more durable source of tires to fit the pneumatic tailwheel. I have tried the 6" and the 8" Matco pneumatic tailwheels on my RV6 which are nice and smooth and feel like Iam "soaring at low speeds":D The problem is the tire wear isn't very good and worse the tubes like to go flat even when closely monitoring tire pressures. It would be great to find a new source.

Cheers Jeremy
 
While working on the tailwheel of El ZunZun, normal checks, lube, preventative maintenance, I decided to install the pneumatic tire, tube, wheel and fork that came along with the plane when I purchased her. The solid tire has always seemed harsh especially on some of the poorly maintained runways I seem to encounter. The pneumatic tailwheel assembly is way more better! Taxiing and take off are the biggest differences. No more dunt, dunt, dunt, across the tar snakes. Better directional control at taxi and take off speeds. I recognize the clean and newly lubed assembly account for some of the improvement.

I did finish cleaning up and lubing the solid tire assembly and will carry it and a 3/4 inch wrench until I get some experience with the pneumatic tire. Don't want to be left stranded alone!
 
While working on the tailwheel of El ZunZun, normal checks, lube, preventative maintenance, I decided to install the pneumatic tire, tube, wheel and fork that came along with the plane when I purchased her. The solid tire has always seemed harsh especially on some of the poorly maintained runways I seem to encounter. The pneumatic tailwheel assembly is way more better! Taxiing and take off are the biggest differences. No more dunt, dunt, dunt, across the tar snakes. Better directional control at taxi and take off speeds. I recognize the clean and newly lubed assembly account for some of the improvement.

I did finish cleaning up and lubing the solid tire assembly and will carry it and a 3/4 inch wrench until I get some experience with the pneumatic tire. Don't want to be left stranded alone!

What wheel/tire/fork did you use? Any pics?

Brian
 
Like I said earlier in this thread, the air volume in these things is tiny and therefore need weekly refilling. Also, because they have so little volume, inflating is a little tricky. I use a gas station-style inflator with hose and built-in gauge, which I got from Harbor Freight for $10 on sale and have pretty good control over how much air goes in. Without that, it would be difficult to get accurate results. Just checking the pressure with a pencil-type gauge lets about 5 psi out of the thing!

I have around 35 hours on mine and like the way it works. The bearings are lightyears better than the stock Van's units and it weighs less.

Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, 233 hours

I use this to inflate all of my tires. Best thing ever. Easy to use, no dragging out the long and dirty compressor hose and easy to control to the tenth of a pound. Highly recommend.
 

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Surprised nobody has mentioned the use of Nitrogen in a pneumatic TW. Especially one with such low volume. Having said that, I chose a solid TW for all the reasons mentioned.
 
A friend of mine has this in his RV-7A. If you're worried about weight, you can always get one of the small hand pumps made for cyclists that mounts on the crossbar of bikes.


I use this to inflate all of my tires. Best thing ever. Easy to use, no dragging out the long and dirty compressor hose and easy to control to the tenth of a pound. Highly recommend.
 
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