proseal hardening time

I'm just getting started with proseal. All my fears have been justified....

How long is it supposed to take for the stuff to harden?

Temps in my area have been mostly in the 40's through 60's over the past week and the proseal I mixed last weekend is still tacky. I can touch it and see my fingerprints. Last week I mixed it with a scale at 10:1 and then after application wet my finger with MEK and touched it to get it to flow a bit and make a nice smooth surface.

Your doing fine. At those temps it may take a couple weeks to fully cure, or longer.

Funny you ask...

I just did my 10's rudder trailing edge this week.

I heat my garage, but it drops to the 40's when I'm not in there, and I have it at 68 when I am there. I gave my rudder 2 days to set and it worked out great.

http://www.edandcolleen.com/short-but-sticky-its-rudder-proseal-time/

http://www.edandcolleen.com/the-rudder-is-done/

Follow up question: Mixing

Thanks. That helps.

Another question I have is mixing this goop. The first issue is getting the stuff out of the can and putting it some surface. I have to be careful when I add the hardener not to contaminate the can if I have to go back for a second scoop. As a result, the white stuff and the black stuff is seperated from each other on the surface. Then drag them both to the center and deal with a smear of white/black on either side of the surface and do my best to mix it all up to include the black/white smears. I've tried a dixie cup as the mixing surface, a splotch of butcher paper, a disposable plastic container and all I can say is each one is slightly worse than the other. In the end half the stuff I mix gets wasted because it's just stuck and smeared all over the surface of my mixing substrate.

Advice/suggestions please?

Thanks,

Can't help you there. I used the 3.5 oz "mix in the tube" pro seal from Vans. Had a bit left over that got chucked, but it was easy.

Home made balance helped mixing process

I made a 10 to 1 balance for Proseal that worked great. At the end of the quart of white stuff, I was at the end of the black stuff. This was after mixing many small batches.

A balance is not the only way but it made another aspect very easy.

That aspect is to use THE mixing container as the measuring container.
I used a paper food cup (as a prior Sweetheart and SOLO engineer, I just can't say the word Dixie... Ughh) and a tongue depressor with a binder clip to hang it on the balance.
Put the empty cup and depressor on the appropriate ends of the balance and adjust for tare.

Glob white stuff into the cup (with tool other than your black stuff depressor). Scoop a little black stuff onto the tongue depressor. It will stay there, don't worry.
Hang it on the balance and adjust black stuff qty if needed.

Remove cup and stick and mix in cup. You get ALL the white and ALL the black together this way. No scraping losses to move from here to there.

This can be done with digital scale but the tare process is a little more tedious. The balance was almost automatic.

Good luck. Proseal takes forever to harden. Don't bother cleaning your clecos until a few days later.

And my Navy mech son says spit works great for fillets. YMMV

anything to replace proseal?

I am at the point where I could rivet and glue my rudder together. I do not have proseal. I looked in the Vans catalog thinking about ordering some, but they have a substitute and not actually proseal - if I remember correctly. Has anyone tried anything that may be available locally other than proseal? I asked Vans and they said their stuff worked so good, they never tried anything else.
Having never seen proseal, I have nothing to compare it with but would silicone or polyseamseal work or just order it from Vans and not worry about it?

thanks

I think the actual product everyone is using is called "flamemaster" or some such thing. I and others still call it ProSeal, but same stuff essentially.

Get a digital scale from harbor freight...

Here's how I did the proseal thing. I used the clear plastic solo cups. Weigh one tongue depreser ( use craft popsicle sticks small or large. They both work). Buy a package of each. So, say the empty cup and one popsickle stick weighs 14 grams. I want to mix 55 grams proseal (5 black 50 white). Use the popsicle stick to scoop out some black and weigh the cup,stick,package. It might weigh 17 grams now. You'll smear some of that black off in the cup, get some more with that same stick and keep going till you get to 19 grams (14 for the cup/stick and 5g of black.) Now use a clean stick and smear the white stuff in a separate area of that mixing cup and then weigh again (without the white stick in it). Keep using that white stick to add more until you get to a total weight of 69 grams. There's your 10:!. Use the black stick to work the mixture into its gray state and have fun. 55grams did one rib for me. You probably don't want to mess with more than one at a time at this stage. Never mind trying to zero the cup and stick before you start. The scale will often auto shut off while you are trying to get white goop and you will have lost your zeroed out weight. Just weigh th e working cup and stick and jot it down and add it to your total weight goal.

There's a chance you did not add enough black to cure it normally. That's probably why you're still tacky after one week, but it will cure. Also, regarding your difficulty riveting the nut plate that your squeezer wouldn't reach, see if you can use your c-frame to set that rivet. Think 470 female on the bottom and flush die on top. Practice whacking some scrap. You can also use your rivet gun on the top of the c frame if you have a long rivet set. Usually the one in the C frame is somewhat mangled on the hammering end but you might be able to grind it down to size to fit in the rivet gun. Being a nutplate rivet, I have used pull rivets to set them in awkward places. The AD-41H pull rivets have a completely sealed inside. I used them on the aft end of the tank ribs per plans on my -6A . Enjoy.

NovaBandit said:

Can't help you there. I used the 3.5 oz "mix in the tube" pro seal from Vans. Had a bit left over that got chucked, but it was easy.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. I did it the "old" way out of the can before the "tubes" where available, or at least I didnt know about them. After using the tube, I would never go back.

FWIW: I talked to the manufacture rep a couple of years ago and was told that it is fuel ready when you can touch it without leaving a fingerprint. The halogen shop lights work wonders in cool weather to help shorten the cure time. Larry

The 3.5 oz proseal cures faster than the quart variety. I used the quart sized can and it took about 3 days for it to get dry to the touch, but that was with 65 degree temperatures.

Certainly not to be recommending alternate mixes, but I did some checks and you can put in far too little black stuff, or far too much. The only difference seems to be that with wildly too much black, it sets up quicker. End result seems to be the same either way. My point is, don't worry too much if you get off a gram or two in the measurements. Some of the old timers with it just mix to a certain color of the mix.

mixing proseal

Hi
I usually have a few pieces of flat (window type) plexiglass around. It has a paper covering on both sides. I mix a batch of proseal on the paper use what I need then after it cures peal the paper off the plexi and mix the next time on the glass. You only need about a 4" square piece of plexi and after it's used for 4 mixes it goes in the trash. I must also be one of the oldtimers mentioned as I have never measured the stuff, when the colour is rite it's good to go. I find it easier to mix on the flat surface rather than a cup, no corners to get into.
Jerry

I used plastic throw away plates. Cheap and large mixing surface.

I use 2 popsicle sticks and a paper plate. Use 1 stick for the white goo, and 1 for the black goo. Pre-weigh the plate and sticks on a digital scale, then start adding the proseal until you get a 10 to 1 mix. Use the sticks to stir it all together. I usually scoop up the mixture using the sticks and put it in a disposable plastic syringe. The syringe makes a great applicator. When you are done, leave the sticks and plate to cure as a test sample. You can poke and play with the sample and not disturb your work on the aircraft (or mess it up).

Cups?

I can't imagine trying to mix this stuff in a cup and getting it mixed thoroughly. I mixed on ceramic tile with a stiff putty knife as recommended to me by a friend. Worked great. I was able to scrape, fold and draw the goo across the tile. By drawing the goo with a putty knife it's possible to spot any unmixed hardener.

Jerry Wilcox said:

Hi
I usually have a few pieces of flat (window type) plexiglass around. It has a paper covering on both sides. I mix a batch of proseal on the paper use what I need then after it cures peal the paper off the plexi and mix the next time on the glass. You only need about a 4" square piece of plexi and after it's used for 4 mixes it goes in the trash. I must also be one of the oldtimers mentioned as I have never measured the stuff, when the colour is rite it's good to go. I find it easier to mix on the flat surface rather than a cup, no corners to get into.
Jerry

Click to expand...

This seems to be close to what I tried just a little while ago. I bought a nice big $1.50 ceramic tile (very smooth) from home depot. I was so relieved to find that it was very easy to mix. Then when I finished, I just got a few paper-towels soaked in MEK and it cleaned right up. I'll be using the time again.

Thanks everybody for the comments.

Sorry, I just have to add my two cents. As an A&P on corporate airplanes for the past 10+ years, and military helicopters before that, I have used sealant on a weekly, often daily basis. Just like nose tissue is called "Kleenex", we call all sealant "Proseal", doesn't matter if it's Proseal, Chemseal, Flamemaster, etc. Every external panel on our Gulfstream gets sealed when it goes back on. You seal both to keep fuel in and water out. Three tools, that's all....latex gloves, cardboard, and tongue depressors. I have never used a scale, and have never had sealant not setup. If the sealant is too light grey, add more black. If it's too black, add more white. I promise this method works...don't put that much thought into it... Good luck to all.

mixing the flamemaster 3.0oz

I purchased the 3.5oz flamemaster from Vans and going to do my rudder. I have been trying to figure out how to mix only a portion of the mix. With the white part in the main tube and the black in the tube, it looks like I have to mix it all up at once if I use it as designed.

Has anyone tried mixing only a portion of this kit? I figure I can just spoon some of the white out and mix it with the other part for the amount I need. Or is it better to just mix it all and throw out the leftover?

Check Instructions

I believe you are not going to get it to set below 50 degrees F.
I worked at a really crappy FBO in Dothan AL that refused to heat the hangars in winter. When the DC-9s left they would blow out all the sealant between lap joints.