Engine Reliability?

Does anyone think any of the major engine company's (ECI, Lycoming, Superior) are better than another? Or is it about the engine builder, I know running engines more often keeps the engine in good shape and the rust out which helps makeTBO but why are some engines less prone to issues, and why did you choose the engine you did?

For every negative story about a brand/assembler, you'll hear a positive one.

In all the decades I have been operating Lycomings (and Continental), my experience is that it has more to do with a talented assembler and very good maintenance - take care of your engine and it will take care of you. Regular maintenance will catch little problems before they become big ones.

Oh...and a little luck helps when it comes to things like AD's and Service bulletins. Every manufacturer has had to issue embarrassing recalls and bulletins that made customers furious. Not much you can do about that but be lucky....

Paul

Adam said:

Does anyone think any of the major engine company's (ECI, Lycoming, Superior) are better than another? Or is it about the engine builder, I know running engines more often keeps the engine in good shape and the rust out which helps makeTBO but why are some engines less prone to issues, and why did you choose the engine you did?

Click to expand...

Adam,

You are asking two distinct questions, the first will be impossible to answer objectively, the second is a topic unto itself.

It is the nature of those of us who populate this community to consider the choices we make for engines, avionics, etc, to represent the highest order of critical thinking. So whatever a particular builder chose for an engine was the "best". Unfortunately, that does not take into account the reliability of the opinionator or whether or not his needs matched yours.

As Paul stated, careful assembly and maintenance determine the lifespan of an engine, not the logos on the parts.

Your second questions needs to be more narrowly focused in order to yield useful info. You might do some poking with the forum search engine to find some of the hundreds of engine threads that have been discussed over the years. There is a lot of good info and after several hours of homework you will find......that your questions don't have simple answers.

Aviation consumer

Adam,
Aviation Cunsumer March issue has an article dealing with this exact question.
Not all engines are created equal. Look at the small block Chevy

There is a Way Around the Bias Sam Refers To

Gather up a few back issues of "Trade-A-Plane" and search thru the ads for used Pipers, for example. You'll see that in general, the 320 and
360 Lycomings run toward TBO with good compression. Take another look at say turbo charged 210's. I had a few of these over a 20 year period. They typically require a top overhaul around 600 to 800 hours. Things like proper care, regular use, preheating, etc. play a big part, but the engines that Vans has chosen for their aircraft are pretty bullet-proof.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

terrykohler said:

Gather up a few back issues of "Trade-A-Plane" and search thru the ads for used Pipers, for example. You'll see that in general, the 320 and
360 Lycomings run toward TBO with good compression. Take another look at say turbo charged 210's. I had a few of these over a 20 year period. They typically require a top overhaul around 600 to 800 hours. Things like proper care, regular use, preheating, etc. play a big part, but the engines that Vans has chosen for their aircraft are pretty bullet-proof.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the original poster was referring to the various vendors that supply engines for our RVs.

My engine builder refused to put anything but lycoming parts in for the rotating assembly because he had used another brand rod bolt in the past and had it come apart and destroy the engine.

He said they removed the other rod bolts and sent them off to be inspected by a metallurgist and found cracks in all of them even though the stretch was correct.

Was this enough for me to use lycoming gears/rod bolts? Yes, partly because this engine builder is very good (local guy here in Alaska) and I wanted to use him, but also because I had to trust his experience since that is why I hired him.

In the grand scheme of things this probably shouldn't mean much to you since many people fly clones to TBO. I guess this is like insurance, buy what you are comfortable with.

schu

I've torn down and rebuilt quite a few. More Continentals than Lycomings by a dozen. I do have an opinion on various parts from various vendors, but I'd like to hear Mahlon or Jesse from CO chip in here about top end durability, etc. Guys who've seen wear on more Lycoming parts than I ever will. I think average durability and frequency of bad batches would be determiners.

I have had good luck with parts form Lycoming, ECI and Superior. They have all had their issues with cylinders and all have had their share of AD's over the years. I think I have gotten the best support from ECI with a close second from Superior when things have gone array, in the past. It's not always if there is a problem that is an issue, it's how the problem is handled that counts a lot for me. Of course it would be best if there were never any problems but that just doesn't seem to be the case from any of the suppliers in question.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."

Thanks Mahlon, I just wonder what the week link is when there is a failure, builder, maintnice, parts or all the above? I guess I'm asking what is the best way to be proactive to ensure a reliable engine!

Adam said:

Thanks Mahlon, I just wonder what the week link is when there is a failure, builder, maintnice, parts or all the above? I guess I'm asking what is the best way to be proactive to ensure a reliable engine!

Click to expand...

Purchase your engine from a vendor that has a proven track record in the RV community. Keep it maintained to a high level and you should have many great years of flying.

Adam said:

Thanks Mahlon, I just wonder what the week link is when there is a failure, builder, maintnice, parts or all the above? I guess I'm asking what is the best way to be proactive to ensure a reliable engine!

Click to expand...

My 2c for best longevity:

Change the oil every 25 hours!
Run 65% power or less.
Lean aggressively (65% power or less).
Keep it cool.

build or buy a crankcase dehumidifier and get the steam out of the case by hooking it up before the engine cools.

No moisture inside crankcase equals no rust...I can't prove this stops corrosion but i can prove the case is full of steam after flight and the dehumidifier will get it out.

for $40 bucks in parts it has to be valuable insurance.

Frank

One other way to keep the corrosion/moisture problem to a minimum is to fly the airplane regularly - like several times a week. If that's your plan, you're on your way to long (engine) life.....

Absolutely..Now if only I could find such a wonderful work/life balance..

Frank

Maybe.

You're in luck, Frank!

I fly for a living and don't look forward to my occasional RV flight as much, because of that....sadly. My living is in the air.

You guys that have the weekend trip to look forward to, really have a much broader sense of appreciation for those rare times than I do.

Best,

engine reliability

Not sure if this will be on track re the original question. When I got out of high school I went straight to work with an auto engine rebuilder, started doing cylinder heads then boring blocks and into actual engine building. Also a bit later had a motorcycle shop and then got into aircraft maintenance. No mention has been made of the guy driving the thing. I have done lots of engines over the years from single to 12 cylinder and know that you can use the best stuff available but if the guy running it want's to he can always break it. You probably realise I'm aiming that statement at the car motorcycle side of the equation. Airplane engines are high performance engines (car guy's are probably laughing now) and deserve treatment as such. I say that because any engine that will put out it's design HP or 75% of that for it's life, in this case 2000hrs, is definitely high performance. Big auto engines might do 15 - 30% of their rating continuous. So know you engine how to run it properly and do as others have said maintenance wise and you will have a great flying experience.
I should also add that I prefer genuine Lycoming parts but have used Superior and had good service. Am not a fan of the ceramic coatings and other gimmicks that are always going to revolutionize the industry. I like to keep it simple.
Jerry

Walt said:

My 2c for best longevity:

Change the oil every 25 hours!
Run 65% power or less.
Lean aggressively (65% power or less).
Keep it cool.

Click to expand...

AMEN to that.

It is a formula that works and if the engine is assembled with care by someone who knows his stuff, it will last a long time.

I like BPE.

Thanks Jerry, good information!

Ironflight said:

One other way to keep the corrosion/moisture problem to a minimum is to fly the airplane regularly - like several times a week. If that's your plan, you're on your way to long (engine) life.....

Click to expand...

A few years ago I spoke with a tech rep. from Shell Oil Company about internal corrosion. He stated that depending on what part of the country you reside in, the moisture/ condensation that accurse in the engine after shut down will require that the next flight have a minimum of 18 minutes of operation @ 180 degrees oil temp or above to remove all previous existing moisture. Another thought of mine, is I do not move the prop around by hand after shut down or pre start-up. For this removes the oil film that was left behind on all mating parts. This is required for lubrication on the next start up. Turning an engine over by hand or just cranking on a starter to lube things up before start-up is a no, no. Just light the engine.
Thomas

G3i Ignition said:

A few years ago I spoke with a tech rep. from Shell Oil Company about internal corrosion. He stated that depending on what part of the country you reside in, the moisture/ condensation that accrues in the engine after shut down will require that the next flight have a minimum of 18 minutes of operation @ 180 degrees oil temp or above to remove all previous existing moisture.

Click to expand...

Use an engine dryer system after every flight.