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Critique my panel

bifft

Well Known Member
Haven't drilled any holes yet, just wanted to have somebody else look at my panel and see if they have any great ideas I haven't thought of.

panel.jpg


I am a day VFR pilot, so no sense in making a plane that is anything else. So, no lights, no gyros. My fighter pilot fantasies are 1940's so, want to have a minimum of blinkenlights. Navigation is looking out the windows, and maybe a hiking GPS set on the glare shield. Going cheap is also a priority. Older radios that don't have LED panels would be preferred, but cost more and are less reliable. The blue square is Van's map box, the rectangle next to the airspeed is a AOA gauge made acording to plans in Sport Aviation a few years back. Fuel level is down by the fuel switch.

I plan on having a panel electrical bus attached to the back side of the blank area below the map box, maybe put some placards in that space (N number, spin recovery?) At some point in the future will need ADS-B radios, that will probably end up replacing the map box.

So, any thoughts? suggestions?
 
Brian, I like the "simple" approach.

Where are your fuel gauges? Are they on the lower panels?

If I was to suggest, I would put the ELT remote on the right lower side panel. Move it out of the prime real estate.

You never know when you want to upgrade. Heck, with the new mini iPad coming, you may want to forego the map box and keep that space open to mount the little iPad. It would seem to me a very cost effective way to add GPS navigation in a VFR airplane.

Good Luck!
 
A couple of quick thoughts:
  • Back seater, if flying, needs primarily ASI & Alt. Leave them high as you have, but consider spacing them further apart?
  • Use the "side sub panels" - they will take a 2.25" Inst easily, and again can be seen from the back [can you use a 2.25" 'g' meter there?]. Move the "pull push" control to the gear towers?
  • Map Box is a great idea, and position low / centre as you ~have.
  • I'd move electrics to where Vans designed them, on the lower right side panel?
 
Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, but if you look at a variety of panels that people consider to "look nice", what they usually have in common is symmetry. Don't ask me why....it's an art thing.

You have all the right gauges for a simple airplane - I would simply arrange them so that the panel was a little more symmetrical if it were mine. Put all six of the small engine gages across the bottom, slide the map box to center. As Andy suggested, put the ASI and ALT high and wide. Electrics on the side panel are easy.

Since you've just got stuff taped on, it's easy to move around - give it a try and see if it looks a bit more attractive. You have few enough gauges, and everything on on -8 is pretty much in front of the pilot, so it is easy to find.
 
Panel

I agree with Paul's suggestions. I would not put a map box in that is the perfect place for a Garmin 296.
Not much money and it has all your aviation info (radio freq's, runway info, airspace info, you name).
 
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I have my manual rudder trim pretty close to where I think you show yours. It works well being up and on the left. I'd consider a 2-1/4 g-meter and save some space. Finally, don't get your heart set on your compas location. The builder of my RV-8 had to try three different locations to get a reasonably accurate reading. In the end, it landed ON TOP of the panel ( not my favorite location but it is hard to miss). One more thought, if you are not going to Have all EGT and CHT simultaneously, you mig find a dual-needle nstrument that is one EGT and one CHT, then use a four position rotary knob for each. I have the rotary knobs but individual single-needle gauges.
 
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Not quite what you asked, but...

have you considered a GRT EIS for about $1000? it would take the place of all those engine gauges and the tach too. It will do all four cylinders and give fuel flow info. Best of all it will flash a big red light in your face if something goes out of the green.
 
I'm sure not many build with selling in mind, but resale appeal would be a concern that I would have. I believe a standard configuration would be much easier for someone to accept. If you plan to be buried in your plane, disregard everything I just said:D
 
Just not a fan of what you propose. I agree with the poster above, resale would have people scratching their heads. Not trying to be harsh, and I guess it is harsh, but it is what it is. ;)

Lose the wet compass! I know it is required, but make it a screw on that you can remove after certification. No one uses them any more.
ELT way lower right.

Dynon or GRT are pretty cost effective, and very attractive. A ton of info on one space saving screen. Only way to go in an 8. There should be plenty used D180's on the market now that Sky view is here.

JMHO.
 
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I am a day VFR pilot, so no sense in making a plane that is anything else. So, no lights, no gyros. My fighter pilot fantasies are 1940's so, want to have a minimum of blinkenlights. Navigation is looking out the windows, and maybe a hiking GPS set on the glare shield. So, any thoughts? suggestions?

I like the way you think and you are off to a good start with the engine instruments on the right and hopefully a radio on the left. Like others have said I am big on symmetry and as an active buyer, I have rejected most because of the panel.

Go with a 2 1/4" G meter to the left of the AS and the whisky compass to the right of the Alt all aligned on the bottom. I would definitely install a GPS to cut down on your nav workload so you can enjoy the view out front. In the case of an emergency knowing where the nearest airfields are is imperative. I went through this with my '88 vintage RV-4 (pictured below) which had no nav aids at first. I would ditch the map box or make it smaller. Designing your panel is the real fun part of the build. Look at as many panels as you can and steal the features you like most.

23m6bls.jpg
 
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I have lots and lots to say, but it would be good if we could spend some minutes on the phone. Before we talk, I have some questions for you to ponder. Why did you build an RV? Specifically, why this plane and not something else? Is the engine new or used? Will the prop be new or used? Will you leave it unpainted? How about the interior, new or used? Have you priced out in detail the instruments you're planning as shown (complete with the needed probes/sensors, etc)? Will you sell the plane within 5-10 years? While they might seem like irrelevant questions, it's very relevant to the direction you're choosing.

Please ponder this and we'll chat! This may end up the direction you go, but I'll bet you've made a few assumptions on prices of certain equipment (new/used/digital/analog) that will not prove to be true.

Not trying to be negative, but I think a little guidance would go a long way. PM me with your contact info and I'll try to get hold of you.

Cheers,
Stein
 
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Didn't expect so many answers. Thanks a lot. I really like the idea of moving the ELT down to the side panels. I have the fuel gauge on the lower left panel, but the right is just empty.

Do feel the lack of symmetry in this design. What I really want to do is to put the map box down lower, then the engine instruments above. But that is as low as it goes (without cutting it much shorter, I believe so much so a sectional won't quite fit in). Want the radios on the left so I can twiddle knobs without taking my hand off the stick.

This is an 8A, so no gear towers for the push pull controls, actually planning on shoving one more above that one, will have elevator trim, cabin heat, carb heat.

I know that glass panels offer lots of data for not too bad of costs these days, and don't take up much panel space. However, that give a 21st century airline feel to the cockpit, I want to keep it a bit more old fashioned. I'm flying an airplane, not watching TV. The same thing goes for engine monitors. I am considering putting switches under the CHT and EGT so as to be able to check all four cylinders. Doubles the sender cost, adds a point of failure. still, thinking about it.

As for GPS, I currently just put my Etrex under the windshield of the Starduster, no "nearest airport" functions, hard to change the route in flight, but great at estimated time to destination, on/off track. Mostly navigation is by following mountain ranges (live in Utah) and 99% of my flying is local anyway. I could see adding some kind of holder for a portable GPS down in that blank space. Could then leave it out when playing fighter pilot.

And as for going to 2 1/2" G-meter to save space, the reason I put the map box on there in the first place is that after adding everything I wanted in a panel, still had tons of space left over. Not the usual complaint for a tandem plane.
 
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I fly Day VFR only, so this might be applicable.

Personally, I use rate of climb information a lot, mostly to work with planning descents on cruise. Knowing the anticipated rate of descent and my speed, I can figure out how far from the destination to start the descent.

I also really like some sort of stabilized compass. I hardly ever use the whiskey compass, which wiggles and waggles too much. The gyro compass is much easier to use - and mine is the old style that looks like an old whiskey compass, original equipment with my 1955 Cessna 180.

Now both of these are mostly used for cross-country flights. For these, I also like to have some sort of moving map capability. It doesn't matter much what sort or how big it is, but something. Ideally it ought to be on the panel somewhere.

As for arranging things, I'd like to see the energy instruments in a small group: ASI, altimeter, rate of climb, tach and unless you're using a fixed pitch prop, manifold pressure. Nav and positioning info in another group, and assorted systems in a third group. They can be - they'll have to be - contiguous, but the groupings should be defined.

Also, a digital fuel flow computer is a must-have. And if you're using a carburetor, an ARP carb ice detector, too.

Dave
 
I think different than you, but I see where you are headed.
I redesigned mine a few times. It's nearly done now...that is, it will get me thru certification...and hopefully phase one.
I liked the SR-71 'Old style' cockpit at the Boeing Flight Museum.
white tape around the three instrument groups;
Engine, Flight, & Navigation.
Engine gauges were on the left, by the throttles, so that's what I did. Flight Instruments front & center, symetrical so you understand them in a panic. Nav instuments to the right and radios (for me) across ther bottom so you can adjust them with either hand.
Good start. Keep at it.
You can see a pic of my panel on my chapter gallery page in the link below.
 
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I fly Day VFR only, so this might be applicable.

Personally, I use rate of climb information a lot, mostly to work with planning descents on cruise. Knowing the anticipated rate of descent and my speed, I can figure out how far from the destination to start the descent.

Dave

There are other potentially faster ways to figure out your descent point.

If you take your Altitude divided by your distance from your level off point and overlay that fraction on your attitude indicator pitch ladder for 0 to 10 degrees, that is the pitch angle you need to maintain for your descent.

For example, you are at 10k feet and 30 miles away, you would use one third of your 10 degree pitch ladder and fly a 3 degree descent profile. Your VVI will just be your pitch multiplied by your groundspeed in miles per minute. So if you are 10k feet at 30 miles doing 180kts (3 miles per minute) you need about 900-1000 VVI down.

In my 8, I always use 3 degrees since it lets me keep the power up on descent. So for me, the math is always very quick and easy. I just do 3 times my altitude in thousands of feet, pad it by 6-9 miles, and thats when I request my descent.

example, Im at 10k feet. 10x3=30, pad a little for level off, slowing, configuring for pattern, so plus 6 miles. I start my descent 36 miles out and pitch for 3 degrees down from level flight. The VVI is sort of irrelevant at that point, but its a good cross check.

Food for thought for anyone who might find a use for it...
 
panel2.jpg


Thinking about the ideas in this thread, modified for a bit more symmetry. this takes the fuel pressure away from the rest of the engine group, but does look nicer.

Also added a fresh air vent, playing around with other places to put it, couldn't find anyplace else it wasn't going to interfere with my legs.

For moving map/GPS, I'm waiting to see what happens to prices on ADS-B equipment. I'll need one eventually, and would rather that it be moving map with traffic shown. I'm hoping prices come down and user interfaces standardize a bit before the deadline.
 
I can see the issue here

I think that its pretty clear whats wrong here.

none of these gauges are colored in with pencils, crayons, or even felt pens.

This is going to make night operations really difficult.


Get yourself a set of Derwents and rememeber....there is no undoing going outside the lines.
 
no map box

Honestly...get rid of that map box. Plenty of space along side panels for all the things you think you'll need in that space zapping map box.
 
Upgrade?

I would definitely suggest an upgrade from paper to actual instruments. Improves the usability immensely . . . (hee hee) :)

Tim
N52KS
 
panel3.jpg


By popular request, without the map box. Looks way better, but feels kinda empty.

Does leave lots of space to fill in with stuff later. Maybe make place to mount a GPS on the right side?
 
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