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Builder Used Wrong Screw Size - Now What?

Saville

Well Known Member
Now that I've acquired some countersinking skills I can get to the REAL problem:

I'm replacing the battery tray in my -8 to accommodate an Odyssey 925 battery. The footprint of the Odyssey battery is not the same as the Gill that was there - it's narrower side to side. So I bought a new battery tray from Van's and riveted in new angle for the new footprint. So far so good.

The tray is fastened to two flanges aft of the baggage compartment 3 holes on each flange (numbered 1-6 in this picture):



The plans call out for AN509-10R9 (10-32) screws going into K1000-3 nutplates on the underside of the flanges. You can see the rivets for the nutplates in the picture.

BUT................

the builder chose to use 8-32 screws going into K1000-8 nutplates.

I CANNOT fathom why the builder would do such a thing. This tray is right near the elevator pushrods/bellcranks/autopilot. Should the tray rip from it's moorings the controls could get fatally fouled.

Much swearing and cursing.

Ok but now what to do?

I compared a K1000-8 to a K1000-3 and the rivet holes are the same size and the same distance apart. I believe they are interchangable so long as I drill a larger clearance hole for the 10R9's in the flange.

But being a newbie, I don't see how they can be flush riveted in place.

An alternative would be to remove the nutplates, drill the larger clearance holes for the 10R9's, and use stop nuts/cotter pin nuts/ safety wired nuts instead of nutplates. If I did that, and left the rivet holes empty does that somehow compromise the strength of the flange? I'm assuming that the reduced spacing between the larger clearance holes and the rivet holes is not detrimental.

I supposed I could mount a doubler along the underside of the flange fastened by the 3, 10R9's

That's all I can come up with - any thoughts would be appreciated.

(why the !@#$% would the builder do that???)
 
You could switch to an EarthX battery and use the #8 screws. The EarthX is much lighter and would impose smaller loads.

Or you could contact Van's tomorrow, and get their advice.

I'm certain there are other options as well.

Dave
 
Why could you not just use countersunk pulled rivets to hold the nutplates, if you are not comfortable with installing solid rivets. The rivet is only there to hold the nutplate from moving. They have no effect after the fastener is secured.
 
Battery Tray Nutplates

Borrow a hand squeezer from a builder or mechanic on your field and hand squeeze the replacement nutplate rivets. There is plenty of access there for a hand squeezer. Easy peasy!

Skylor
RV-8
 
I don't see the issue. There appears to be plenty of room to get a rivet gun on top, bucking bar underneath.

Why could you not just use countersunk pulled rivets to hold the nutplates, if you are not comfortable with installing solid rivets. The rivet is only there to hold the nutplate from moving. They have no effect after the fastener is secured.

Borrow a hand squeezer from a builder or mechanic on your field and hand squeeze the replacement nutplate rivets. There is plenty of access there for a hand squeezer. Easy peasy!

Skylor
RV-8

Very easy job. IF you use pop rivets, they are only holding the nutplates in place. Cheaper to use solid rivets and hand squeezer.

When a nutplate needs replaced on my 19+ year old RV-6, I will use pop rivets when unable to get in with a squeezer.
 
I CANNOT fathom why the builder would do such a thing. This tray is right near the elevator pushrods/bellcranks/autopilot. Should the tray rip from it's moorings the controls could get fatally fouled.

Much swearing and cursing.

You must get excited pretty easily. This is far from the most egregious thing a builder has done, and looking at the relative strength differences between the two sizes of AN509 machine screws I really have to wonder if it's that big of a deal. Bias is towards the designer's plans, of course, but you might mess things up more by drilling the rivets/nutplates out if you don't have prior building experience. In that case, replacing the existing nutplates might do more harm than good.
 
Missing Nut

Is there a nut missing from the elevator pushrod rod end bearing where it attaches to the bell crank?
 
(why the !@#$% would the builder do that???)

It is hard to see the difference between a K1000-8 and a K1000-3.
Borrow a hand squeezer from a builder or mechanic on your field and hand squeeze the replacement nutplate rivets. There is plenty of access there for a hand squeezer. Easy peasy!
That would be my choice and I second the "easy peasy".

You could add 4 K1000-3 between those -8s and effectively have a beefed up
attachment if you don't want to drill out the -8s.
 
You must get excited pretty easily.

You think? I don't care what you think. I get excited when something that affects the safety of the aircraft - which is to say my butt - and that didn't have to happen, occurs.

This is far from the most egregious thing a builder has done,

I don't care. It's a stupid thing to have done and utterly unnecessary to boot. In a previous post I also showed how the old battery tray was held on...like this:




Notice the upper right and lower left holes. In addition, the builder did not use the pre-drilled holes that the battery tray comes with (notice the upper two holes). This made a simple tray replacement far more complicated.

and looking at the relative strength differences between the two sizes of AN509 machine screws I really have to wonder if it's that big of a deal.

The battery that I'm putting in is pretty heavy. Much heavier than the one that was there. I fly acro with this plane. The battery is right in front of control mechanisms as I mentioned.

You go ahead and wonder if it's not such a big deal. Stay real calm too while you're at it.


Bias is towards the designer's plans, of course, but you might mess things up more by drilling the rivets/nutplates out if you don't have prior building experience. In that case, replacing the existing nutplates might do more harm than good.

I'm not good enough to do this myself. I'll have to get it done. Or at least the old nutplate rivets drilled out. If it's true that there's no sacrifice in structural strength by using flush blind rivets to hold the nutplates, then I can handle that.

But I don't know that for a fact so I'll have to talk to people.
 
I'm not good enough to do this myself. I'll have to get it done. Or at least the old nutplate rivets drilled out. If it's true that there's no sacrifice in structural strength by using flush blind rivets to hold the nutplates, then I can handle that.

But I don't know that for a fact so I'll have to talk to people.

You seem angry. You know who should really be angry? The builder whose work you're publicly calling "stupid".

One wonders why someone who is apparently such an expert in aircraft design would purchase a flying aircraft rather than build for themselves the perfection they're really looking for.
 
Blind Rivets are OK for Nutplates

It's a fact: the rivets holding the nutplate aren't part of the joint, except to hold the nutplate from turning. The only exception is if they go through multiple parts in the stack along with the nutplate, and then they'd matter.

At least that's the way we analyzed parts back when I was working. I'm a retired aerospace stress analyst.

Blind rivets are fine for holding nutplates. On my RV-3B, I use the NAS1097 "oops" rivets for that since their small heads are easy to countersink. But don't take my word for it; check with Van's.

Dave
 
You seem angry. You know who should really be angry? The builder whose work you're publicly calling "stupid".

For a while I was. Then I got to work trying to figure out what to do about it.

One wonders why someone who is apparently such an expert in aircraft design would purchase a flying aircraft rather than build for themselves the perfection they're really looking for.


Everywhere in this thread (and the recent one on countersinking) I've gone to great lengths to communicate what a newbie I am at this. And in the quote you selected I started out by saying I'm not good enough to drill out rivets in a serious spot - I've never done that before. And drilling out rivets is something you learn how to do early on.

So nowhere have I advertised myself as an "expert". Quite the opposite.

I don't care if the builder is angry if I called him/her stupid.

What they did, here, was stupid. And it was unnecessary. I fly acro with this plane and this could cause a crash. Gives me the willies to think of what could have happened.

I call that installation stupid.
 
It's a fact: the rivets holding the nutplate aren't part of the joint, except to hold the nutplate from turning. The only exception is if they go through multiple parts in the stack along with the nutplate, and then they'd matter.

At least that's the way we analyzed parts back when I was working. I'm a retired aerospace stress analyst.

Blind rivets are fine for holding nutplates. On my RV-3B, I use the NAS1097 "oops" rivets for that since their small heads are easy to countersink. But don't take my word for it; check with Van's.

Very encouraging.

Dave

Dave what you write is encouraging. I'll certainly check with Van's but what you (and others) say makes sense. In this case, the rivets only hold the nutplates in place.
 
We're sailing clear off topic here.... in before the lock....

You've gotten numerous solutions... who cares what other people think; you've said that yourself. Pick one and move on. No need to take your rage out on a defenseless keyboard.

Personally, I like the idea of a lighter battery, but that's me.
 
You're choosing to put in a heavier than standard battery. It's on you to beef up. The builders original build didn't fail...so hard to fault him quite as full throated as you've done here. Relax a bit, builders make changes all the time, this one is pretty negligible. Take some advice as it's been given. Add a couple fasteners or drill out and replace. None of that is difficult. I can't think of anything more basic than drilling out plate nuts, but then the larger ones holes likely won't line up. If it were me, and I was as worked up over this as you clearly are...I would call vans and ask permission to add two new nut plates between the current holes. Then you can have them send you an engineer stamped change of plans, notarized and signed in blood maybe.
 
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You're choosing to put in a heavier than standard battery. It's on you to beef up. The builders original build didn't fail...so hard to fault him quite as full throated as you've done here. Relax a bit, builders make changes all the time, this one is pretty negligible. Take some advice as it's been given. Add a couple fasteners or drill out and replace. None of that is difficult. I can't think of anything more basic than drilling out plate nuts, but then the larger ones holes likely won't line up. If it were me, and I was as worked up over this as you clearly are...

As I wrote, I was worked up over the discovery of the bad installation but that was weeks ago.

I would call vans and ask permission to add two new nut plates between the current holes. Then you can have them send you an engineer stamped change of plans, notarized and signed in blood maybe.

It's a difficult fix for me as I'm a newbie to all of this and have gaps in my knowledge and skills.

Yes several options have been offered and I like a couple of them. But as you say I'll have to run them past Van's first. I'm leaning towards replacing the nutplates with the K1000-3's, and flush blind riveting if that's acceptable.

Thanks
 
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We're sailing clear off topic here.... in before the lock....

You've gotten numerous solutions... who cares what other people think; you've said that yourself. Pick one and move on. No need to take your rage out on a defenseless keyboard.

Personally, I like the idea of a lighter battery, but that's me.

Well I picked the Odyssey 925 because I've read about it's heavy cranking power and the fact that AGM's do not leak battery acid and hold their charge better in cold Winters. I'd go lighter if I got that same sort of performance because I dislike adding weight to the machine. it's fairly light as it is.
 
You make a big point about being a novice at this, to the point of not being able to drill out a non-structural rivet. I gotta ask. If you're replacing a (typically used) PC680 with that much bigger battery, what added forward cg weight are you offsetting? If none, how much farther aft will it move the cg? Is that what you're after by adding the weight? Because those answers could be far more significant than using #8 screws...

Charlie
 
Maybe you could find a local mechanic or builder that has a piece of scrap with some rivets in it you could practice drilling out. If you are not the builder or an a&p can you legally do this job?
 
The fact that you are admitting to be a novice builder/owner of an experimental aircraft is no excuse to be such a
.
You think? I don't care what you think. I get excited when something that affects the safety of the aircraft

Take it down a couple of notches and appreciate the advice you get in this forum.

BTW, Make sure you do a new weight and balance on that airplane. Increasing weight that far back will most certainly affect the safety of your aircraft more than swapping #8 screws for #10s.
Probably best to get a certified AI to take care of all these issues.
 
6 little fasteners - - hmmm. Concern over an off-book fastener selection is understandable, but MIL-HDBK-5J has a table of fastener strengths. A #8 ultimate tensile strength is just over 1500 lbs, and single shear of 2600 lbs. That should handle the battery tray. The battery hold-down would be more limited in strength. There are some other factors for fatigue and safety, but I, personally, would not get excited about an imminent failure. Easy to also do it by the book so do that if more comfortable with it.
 
Thank you Bill for the #8 fastener strengths.

The PC925 battery is said to weigh 28 pounds; let's add two pounds for the tray and hold down to keep things in round numbers. Assuming all the fasteners are equally loaded and fail at the same time is quite a stretch, but let's go with it for the sake of argument. The cumulative tensile strength of those six #8 screws is 9000 pounds, which equates to 300 negative g's. This is 100 times greater than the negative g limit of the RV-8. Working the shear strength numbers in the same manner, the fasteners would fail in a 580 g deceleration. A human has survived a 46.2 g deceleration while properly harnessed. We don't have that kind of harness in our RV's. It's probably safe to assume that the RV-8 and the occupant(s) would fail long before those six #8 fasteners failed.

Looking at it another way, two #8 fasteners have enough tensile strength to lift an RV-8 at gross weight with a generous safety factor.

A consult with Van's would certainly be prudent, but casual analysis shows that the battery tray attachment is significantly over engineered.

Cheers, David
RV-6A A&P
 
Another Approach

Rather than drill out the existing fasteners, leave them in place.
Fasten the battery box, then drill holes for #10 plates (start with a smaller drill size) between the existing fasteners. Use pulled, c-sunk rivets to install the new plates (I don't recall the part no.). You'll end up with 10 fasteners holding down the box, and you'll have the strongest setup on the planet. Or, call Van's - they may suggest that 6 #8 machine screws are sufficient.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
You make a big point about being a novice at this, to the point of not being able to drill out a non-structural rivet. I gotta ask. If you're replacing a (typically used) PC680 with that much bigger battery, what added forward cg weight are you offsetting? If none, how much farther aft will it move the cg? Is that what you're after by adding the weight? Because those answers could be far more significant than using #8 screws...

Charlie

Hi Charlie,

Not sure where you got the idea I am replacing a PC680: I believe I mentioned above I'm replacing a Gill. Also the battery is already in the back.

Anyway the Gill battery is 25 pounds and the PC925 is 28 pounds.

What I'm after by going to this battery is:

1) AGM batteries don't leak acid when you fly acro (which I do)

2) AGM batteries hold their charge longer during the cold Winter months

3) This battery has greater cranking power (reported here in VAF as well as other places).

As for the W&B - last month I installed a Reiff pre-heating system in the nose. Now I'm doing this job which is adding 3-4 pounds in the aft baggage compartment. So once this job is over I intend to do a complete W&B.

Thanks!
 
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Maybe you could find a local mechanic or builder that has a piece of scrap with some rivets in it you could practice drilling out. If you are not the builder or an a&p can you legally do this job?

Yeah today is dedicated to installing some nutplates on aluminum angle with flush rivets and then drilling them out.

Yes I believe I am legally allowed to do the work. Whether required or not I would always get an A&P to inspect.

But in this case I wouldn't mind getting it done by an A&P - it's a camped, difficult place to work with the kind of precision required.
 
The fact that you are admitting to be a novice builder/owner of an experimental aircraft is no excuse to be such a .

If you re-read my initial post, you'll see that that was my reaction when I discovered the faulty installation several weeks ago. Then I immediately wrote:

"Ok but now what to do?"

I don't think this is an unusual reaction when first discovering a bad, unsafe installation.

Do you? Maybe you do.




Take it down a couple of notches and appreciate the advice you get in this forum.

I got over it quickly even back then and got to work fabricating the new tray. As I wrote earlier, I still get the willies when I think of what could have happened if the fastening system failed. There were tinnermans covering two of the oversized drilled-3-times holes in the old tray - otherwise there was nothing for the head of those 2 screws to bear down upon. To me that's scary.

I started this thread just fine - very calm. I'm still just fine. But I have no problem expressing how un-fine I was when I discovered this.

And so if someone writes, in here, that he/she thinks I get excited easily..well as I wrote - too bad: I don't care what they think. It's not their butt.


BTW, Make sure you do a new weight and balance on that airplane. Increasing weight that far back will most certainly affect the safety of your aircraft more than swapping #8 screws for #10s.
Probably best to get a certified AI to take care of all these issues.

Yes I planned on a complete W&B after I finish this job. Last month I installed a Reiff cylinder pre-heat system in the nose and now I'm doing this job in the aft baggage compartment. To me that's more than enough change to do a thorough W&B from scratch.
 
BillL:

Many thanks for the reference - I have been looking for a source for those numbers for a few days. Now I have the PDF thanks to you.

Koupster:

Thanks for the analysis. It does seem over-engineered, but I'm definitely going to talk to Van's about this before I do anything. I wanted to do that calculation myself, but I didn't have those values for the #8's (which I now do thanks to BillL).
 
Rather than drill out the existing fasteners, leave them in place.
Fasten the battery box, then drill holes for #10 plates (start with a smaller drill size) between the existing fasteners. Use pulled, c-sunk rivets to install the new plates (I don't recall the part no.). You'll end up with 10 fasteners holding down the box, and you'll have the strongest setup on the planet. Or, call Van's - they may suggest that 6 #8 machine screws are sufficient.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

Hi Terry,

The idea of added or replacement nutplates between the old ones was suggested earlier. What I do not know is if all the extra holes in the flange weakens it in any appreciable way. I don't have the knowledge to states yes or no, but the notion comes to mind.
 
Got the answers from Van's

Ok so I just got off the phone with Van's. The Tech Assistance was very good, as usual.

Here are the answers:

1) They cannot say what difference it would make if the 8-32's were used vs the 10-32's. The structure was tested only with 10-32's. So they won't make a statement about 8-32's...*might work* he said, but he really cannot say.

- I take that as a "No: 8-32's won't work. You have to use the 10-32's"

2) Can you can use blind rivets to hold the nutplates in place?

Answer: Yes. In that application their only function is to keep the nutplates in place as you turn the screws. It is the screws themselves, turned into the nutplates, which hold everything together. Just as several people suggested in this thread. Be sure you get nutplates with sufficient grip.

3) As you can see in the following photo of the old battery tray - the builder did not use the match drilled holes already present in the tray. The builder installed the two top screws (in the photo below) about 3/8" and 1/2" forward of the match holes.

Is this a problem?

Answer: No.

Here's the photo:



4) Does Van's have a battery tray in stock without the match drilled holes?

Answer: No. That would have to be a special order.

Ok so now I have my answers and marching orders:


1) I will practice drilling out flush rivets until I'm confident I can do it in the cramped quarters of the aft fuselage. If I cannot gain that confidence I'll ask an A&P to drill them out and pay for it done.

2) I will drill out the clearance holes in the flanges to accommodate 10-32 screws.

3) I will then flush blind rivet in K1000-3's in the flanges.

Thanks to everyone for heir suggestions and thoughts.
 
Sheet Metal Work

Perhaps what seems like a routine job to those of us building our RV, sure won't seem like just another small job to someone who's not done this before. They might not have the tools; they might not even know what tools are needed, and they almost definitely won't have the ability to tell the difference between a small job and a serious one.

We ought to remember what our very first efforts felt like.

Dave
 
Perhaps what seems like a routine job to those of us building our RV, sure won't seem like just another small job to someone who's not done this before. They might not have the tools; they might not even know what tools are needed, and they almost definitely won't have the ability to tell the difference between a small job and a serious one.

We ought to remember what our very first efforts felt like.

Dave

Hi Dave,

This is precisely where I am - just as you describe.

This job seems, to me, to be anything but routine. I'm a wooden boat builder and engineer. I know about tools in general, but not sheet metal tools; and small motor skill acquisition - enough to know I don't have them for these tools; , and just how badly you can screw something up and make for yourself a HUGE amount of additional work:

If I mess up that flange I just bought myself weeks and weeks of work. I have a full time job and don't have endless hours a week to devote to airplane mods.

I now have to figure out which flush blind rivets have the necessary grip, so even things like that - certainly simple things to an experienced builder - take some study and effort for me. I have to review the EAA videos on drilling out flush rivets as well as other non-EAA videos on that. I have to figure out what size rivets were used and then figure out what size drill bit one should use to drill the manufactured head out for that rivet size. Then I have to set some flush rivets of that size and then drill them out. I have to get a tool to pull a blind rivet. And more.

I'm not complaining - I like learning new things. But yes it's good for experienced builders to remember what it was like when you started out knowing nothing and faced with a job you have to do.

Thanks!
 
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Good learning plan, Saville. Read the new Section 5 (disc version) on drilling out rivets, it is pretty good.

My advice - make sure you can see very well. Run a few drill revs than stop and check - learn to walk the still point by angling the top. When the drill depression is full diameter, it should be centered. Then drill straight. I used to sweat this process. I would stop working to build confidence. Then, one day, I goofed a rivet, without blinking picked up the drill and popped it out. Do 5 in a session and let what you learned sink in , then do 5 more. As an engineer, you have already developed a self training technique, this is no different.

If you can not beg or borrow a squeezer, you might post for a hand squeezer of consider the "main squeeze" from Cleaveland Tools. (and some dies) I would suggest a 3" yoke, but not a no-hole yoke. The no hole will be hard to use on setting the shop head of plate nut rivets. Just a geometry thing.
 
1) They cannot say what difference it would make if the 8-32's were used vs the 10-32's. The structure was tested only with 10-32's. So they won't make a statement about 8-32's...*might work* he said, but he really cannot say.

- I take that as a "No: 8-32's won't work. You have to use the 10-32's"

No, it means they didn't analyze the design with the use of #8 screws, so they don't have an answer. That's all. It doesn't mean you have to do anything.

This is a mountain out of a molehill. If you leave it alone and use #8s, it'll be fine (as someone else who did the math demonstrated to you). If you decide to change them to #10s, it's about the simplest job of "repair" I can imagine. If you don't know how to drill out a few flush rivets, then go get some scrap, set a bunch of them, and drill them out until you know what you're doing. Then just go do it.

Jeez...4 pages of posts on whether or how to replace 6 whole platenuts. If that's the hardest job you ever have to do on an airplane, you're luckier than everybody *I* know.
 
Jeez...4 pages of posts on whether or how to replace 6 whole platenuts. If that's the hardest job you ever have to do on an airplane, you're luckier than everybody *I* know.

Everyone I know, too. This is the best statement I've read in this entire thread.
 
Getting Started

About halfway down this posting, I described how I removed some rivets.

If you have some -3 and some -4 rivets, or can identify some on the airplane, that comparison makes it easy to tell what size rivets you have. But if they are holding in nutplates, they're almost certainly -3s, which use a #40 drill bit. Note that the "oops" rivets have a smaller head diameter and that can be confusing; some people use them for nutplates. I do, for example.

Some people prefer high speed drills for removing rivets. I've found that low-speed ones are often easier to control for this task.

(In my posting I used a #52 for the initial drilling - it was all I had that day. A #50 would have been as good.)

Do you have the plans or the preview plans or the $10 CD for your airplane? That'll help a lot with how things ought to be. Chapter 5 is available from Van's site, as well as in the manual, CD or in the preview plans. Go to the revisions page and poke around there.

Dave
 
Jeez...4 pages of posts on whether or how to replace 6 whole platenuts. If that's the hardest job you ever have to do on an airplane, you're luckier than everybody *I* know.

Well just remember that it took a lot of discussion to get to the point where the decision was to replace the plate nuts.

The repair job I had to do before this was to tighten a B-nut on the inside of one fuel tank for the air vent that was never tightened. That was a long learning curve for me as well:

Why was there fuel dripping from the air vent intake?
How to test if the problem was that connection just inside the tank?
This required learning about 1/8" NPT fittings, getting one which
was made for slipping a plastic hose over it.
How to gain access to the loose fitting inside the tank (remove tank or just sender cover?)
How to remove the fuel sender cover that was Prosealed on.
Whether or not to use cork or Proseal when replacing the cover (Prosealed it)
How tight is tight enough and not too tight when it comes to NPT fittings?
How to use Proseal when replacing the sender cover?

....stuff like that which was totally unknown to me.

Lotta people said it's easy to remove the tank just do it - why am I making such a big deal?

I'm sure that to you, replacing plate nuts (nut plates?) is a trivial task. It isn't to me because of the myriad of things I don't know and skills I don't have.

But this isn't the first time people have sounded off on a lot of words written for what they think is a trivial decision and task. And I'm sure it won't be the last.

For them I say - if you can't recall what it was like to know nothing and make a change to an $80-$100,000 airplane you risk your life in...don't read the thread.

Go read other threads.
 
Everyone I know, too. This is the best statement I've read in this entire thread.

No one forces you to read the thread. Perhaps you should only read the threads written only by the experts who have the experience to make rapid decisions. Maybe you'll be happier there.
 
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About halfway down this posting, I described how I removed some rivets.

If you have some -3 and some -4 rivets, or can identify some on the airplane, that comparison makes it easy to tell what size rivets you have. But if they are holding in nutplates, they're almost certainly -3s, which use a #40 drill bit. Note that the "oops" rivets have a smaller head diameter and that can be confusing; some people use them for nutplates. I do, for example.

Some people prefer high speed drills for removing rivets. I've found that low-speed ones are often easier to control for this task.

(In my posting I used a #52 for the initial drilling - it was all I had that day. A #50 would have been as good.)

Do you have the plans or the preview plans or the $10 CD for your airplane? That'll help a lot with how things ought to be. Chapter 5 is available from Van's site, as well as in the manual, CD or in the preview plans. Go to the revisions page and poke around there.

Dave

Hi David - a good post which helps quite a bit. I was wondering about center punching the head first before attempting to drill. I was just in the shop and I looked for the dimple in the manufactured head - it's there but it's more pronounced in some rivets than in others. So I thought about center punching first.

I have paper plans but BillL's post says that chapter 5 is available online. And in fact it's here:

https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-ALL_05.pdf

Thanks to Dave and Bill for the pointers.
 
If you don't know how to drill out a few flush rivets, then go get some scrap, set a bunch of them, and drill them out until you know what you're doing.

I do believe that was listed as Step #1 in my post 4 posts above this one of yours.

Jeez...4 pages of posts on whether or how to replace 6 whole platenuts.

Would have been fewer posts if you hadn't submitted a post which only complained about how many posts there are in this thread..

Who knows? Perhaps some other reader will benefit from the discussion. Stranger things have happened.
 
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There's enough stickies. Some of them should be moved to "The Best of the Best" section.

I'd like to see a thread symbol for beginner questions that the moderators can add when it's clear what the focus of the discussion is.

Dave
 
In addition to Van's builder's manual another good reference to keep on hand is AC 43.13-2B. This document is titled "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Alterations." When I got my airworthiness certificate the inspector wanted to see that I had a copy of this in my possession. There are also several other good reference books available that might prove helpful (see the EAA bookstore for example).
 
plate nuts (nut plates?)

Oh, but let's not start *that* discussion again. ;)

Suggestion: It's cool you bought and fly a RV. You didn't build it so you don't know the aircraft or construction methods in great enough detail to repair it or to make changes, yet you're doing so. I get it. Everyone has to learn somewhere and your starting point happens to be a completed kit.

So - get some in-person help. You live in MA, there are a lot of builders and owners in the area. Buy them a beer or whatever they like, invite them over and ask for some guidance and tutoring. As long as you're nice to these folks, you'll be amazed how helpful and willing to share skills people will be. Alternatively, if you hire an A&P, have them teach you how to do this fix the right way. One will cost a couple beers, the other will cost a couple hours of shop time. Either is a perfectly good choice.

And Chapter 5 really should be considered required reading, all of it.
 
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