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Whirlwind WW200RV vs. Hartzell C2YR-1N/N7605-4 Composite Prop

Sparky

Well Known Member
I've seen some comparisons between the Whirlwind 200RV and Hartzell BA Aluminum prop, but has anyone done an "apples to apples" comparison of the Whirlwind 200RV 2-blade composite prop and the Hartzell C2YR-1N/N7605-4 2-blade composite prop?

I am at the point of making a prop choice for my RV-7 with an IO-360 (180 hp engine) and am on the fence between the Whirlwind WW200RV prop, Hartzell C2YR-1N/N7605-4 Composite prop, and the Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F7497-2 Blended Airfoil Aluminum prop. All are 72" props, suitable for the RV-7.

I realize the price and weight differences, but any suggestions based on other criteria? Has anyone done any comparative analyses?
 
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I am now at this point in my project. I'd love to hear some feedback on the Whrilwind prop. Thanks in advance!
 
Love my WW200RV. Lighter weight, just as fast or faster than others, looks fantastic. no issues in 200+hrs.
 
I recently switched from the Hartzell BA 7497 to the Hartzell composite.
Top speed is nearly the same, composite MAY be a knot slower.
Cruise speed seems more efficient, my normal full throttle 2350rpm cruise between 8 and 12 thousand feet, LOP, yields my usual 168 knots, but .5 gals/hr. less than I used to get.
Acceleration and deceleration is much quicker(handy in formation).
Vibration levels seem much lower with the composite, although both props were dynamically balanced.
I love my new prop.
 
I recently switched from the Hartzell BA 7497 to the Hartzell composite.
Top speed is nearly the same, composite MAY be a knot slower.
Cruise speed seems more efficient, my normal full throttle 2350rpm cruise between 8 and 12 thousand feet, LOP, yields my usual 168 knots, but .5 gals/hr. less than I used to get.
Acceleration and deceleration is much quicker(handy in formation).
Vibration levels seem much lower with the composite, although both props were dynamically balanced.
I love my new prop.

Dear Jon, how do you manage the cowling interference in some course pitch? when is was finishing mi RV-7 The people of Hartzell told me that there are problems with that.

Regards
 
Dear Jon, how do you manage the cowling interference in some course pitch? when is was finishing mi RV-7 The people of Hartzell told me that there are problems with that.

Regards

We did see a couple of cowl interference issues in high pitch. I think 3 of the 10 had this. There is a high pitch stop adjustment that can be made which we did. There is also the G hub that is ~1" longer and provides more than adequate cowl clearance with plenty of prop pitch for the sub 230hp engines . Our team will likely go to the G hub with these blades in the future.
 
Were you guys able to use the same Hartzell BA spinner with the Hartzell composite? Also, any additional performance info we can get would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
Were you guys able to use the same Hartzell BA spinner with the Hartzell composite? Also, any additional performance info we can get would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

We could have used our existing spinners, but we all went with the very cool and sexy Hartzell polished spinners. We are in the entertainment business. Looks matter.
You would have to make your cut out of your existing Vans spinner of the root slightly larger to accommodate the larger root of the composite blades. Just a little bit of filing if you want to keep your Vans spinner thats already fitted.

The team had a number of different props. From BA to old fat paddle to WW. All c/s props of different shapes and sizes. As a general set of observations;
1. Significant reduction in weights going from metal. This improved handling of stick forces and formation aerobatic maneuvers.
2. Significant improvement in smoothness
3. Significant improvement in static thrust. This was particularly noticeable in the vertical during aerobatic maneuvers and on take off. ~200' reduction in T.O. distance.
4. Significant improvement in acceleration against the metal props. Think faster spool up time of RPM. Also noticeable in the vertical.
5. Similar cruise speeds
6. Similar top speeds with a couple reporting 1-2kts loss in very top speed
7. Improvement in ramp appeal. They just look good.
8. Improvement in blade life. These blades are certified unlimited service life.

Thats it in a nutshell.
 
We did see a couple of cowl interference issues in high pitch. I think 3 of the 10 had this. There is a high pitch stop adjustment that can be made which we did. There is also the G hub that is ~1" longer and provides more than adequate cowl clearance with plenty of prop pitch for the sub 230hp engines . Our team will likely go to the G hub with these blades in the future.

Has anyone formulated/documented a recommendation for the distance from the prop mount plane to the most forward portion of the cowling? We, Hartzell composite builders, could use that dimension.

Good to hear the cruise and top speed information, that is very consistent with the analytical information I used to make my decision. I am very happy the data confirms.
 
Has anyone formulated/documented a recommendation for the distance from the prop mount plane to the most forward portion of the cowling? We, Hartzell composite builders, could use that dimension.

Good to hear the cruise and top speed information, that is very consistent with the analytical information I used to make my decision. I am very happy the data confirms.

As Mike mentioned, the "G" hub will make the cowl-prop clearance a non-issue. Limiting the high pitch stop with the "C" hub is an interim fix until the "G" hub is ready. I would not recommend limiting high pitch as a permanent solution in any case.
 
As the OP of this thread back in December 2009, thanks for the somewhat delayed replies. By the way, I went with the Hartzell C2YR-1N/N7605-4 2-blade composite prop. I haven't flown yet, but am enthused by the above responses.
 
I'm unfamiliar with the Hartzell composite prop. I have the WW200RV. I believe it is carbon fiber and when I tap on it it resonates like it is hollow. When I purchased it, it had no rpm restrictions, but when Hartzell came out with its restrictions on some of its blades, WW added EXACTLY the same RPM bands as "recommended to avoid". It made no sense to me because of the differences between materials and they admitted they had not done the same vibration analysis that Hartzell did. Sounded to me like the lawyers got involved and it was just easier to put a weakly worded caveat in the manual rather than try to educate the lawyers or pay for very expensive testing. I would be interested to see how people run the 200RV with regard to the RPM recommended bands...

Does the new Hartzell composite prop have RPM restrictions on it?
 
I'm unfamiliar with the Hartzell composite prop. I have the WW200RV. I believe it is carbon fiber and when I tap on it it resonates like it is hollow. When I purchased it, it had no rpm restrictions, but when Hartzell came out with its restrictions on some of its blades, WW added EXACTLY the same RPM bands as "recommended to avoid". It made no sense to me because of the differences between materials and they admitted they had not done the same vibration analysis that Hartzell did. Sounded to me like the lawyers got involved and it was just easier to put a weakly worded caveat in the manual rather than try to educate the lawyers or pay for very expensive testing. I would be interested to see how people run the 200RV with regard to the RPM recommended bands...

Does the new Hartzell composite prop have RPM restrictions on it?

Here is a video of how WW makes the blades. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cyycR356pQ The constant speed blades go to Ohio and are mated to the hubs. They have a hollow section where the bladder is inflated to form the blade in the mold, and are all carbon fiber.

No operational restriction on the Hartzell composite blade, at least for my IO-360 parallel valve.
 
UPDATE ON "G" HUB

I found out that the new "G" hub is now available at the Van's site.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin...-292-738&browse=props&product=csprop-hartzell

To my disappointment and surprise the price has been raised $1470 to $13,200. Vans will not produce their spinner for this prop so you are left with a 1" gap between spinner / cowl or buying a Hartzell AL spinner for $1350. $14,550 puts this new combo out of reach in my humble opinion! I really wanted this prop but now I am thinking of going with the Whirlwind 2-blade 2013 RV for $9215 including spinner.

Is anyone using the WW 2013 RV Yet????
 
AL, Hopefully we will be able to give you some numbers by early December. We have a high output IO360 with a RV200. We are switching the blades to the RV74(RV2013) when we have the hub overhauled. We will try and get some solid before and after numbers. The two props use a completely different construction method. The 200 is as mentioned a hollow core prop. The RV74 is a solid prop. It weighs 1 lbs more then the RV200. The RV74 is optimized for 200HP and up. If you below that number they still recommend the RV200. There are very few RV74's flying so not much feedback at this point. The one person who has some hours on the new prop loves it. He states its very smooth and can be cruised at a lower RPM then the 200. In my aircraft and others I have spoken with the 200 seems to get a little rough below 2450 RPM. This might be a balance issue however.
If you are a current owner of the RV200 its a easy blade swap to get the RV74. The price for blades only is very competitive. You also get to keep your old 200 blades as spares or to sell.

George
 
pleased with my WW 200RV

only 50 hr on my 200RV prop but I am pleased with it so far. it had a few grease streaks on the back of the blades for the first 5 hr. which the manual said to expect. after 5 hrs. no grease streaks, totally clean. very smooth, great speed, no interference with the front of the cowl, workmanship is excellent, light weight. you will need to trim off some of the inner cowl cone to allow for the spinner back plate balance weight (bolt) clearance if it has been added by WW. graphite composite fan blades have proven to be superior to metal blades for large turbine engines by experience over the past 10 yrs.
 
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AL, Hopefully we will be able to give you some numbers by early December. We have a high output IO360 with a RV200. We are switching the blades to the RV74(RV2013) when we have the hub overhauled. We will try and get some solid before and after numbers. The two props use a completely different construction method. The 200 is as mentioned a hollow core prop. The RV74 is a solid prop. It weighs 1 lbs more then the RV200. The RV74 is optimized for 200HP and up. If you below that number they still recommend the RV200. There are very few RV74's flying so not much feedback at this point. The one person who has some hours on the new prop loves it. He states its very smooth and can be cruised at a lower RPM then the 200. In my aircraft and others I have spoken with the 200 seems to get a little rough below 2450 RPM. This might be a balance issue however.
If you are a current owner of the RV200 its a easy blade swap to get the RV74. The price for blades only is very competitive. You also get to keep your old 200 blades as spares or to sell.

George

Any news yet??
 
Aft CG.

I'm wondering what CG you guys with WW-prop have?
I have ended up on the aft side with the WW.

On my first -7, I have a C/S MT prop and on my new -7, I have a RV200 WW.

First flight will hopefully be in the last part of January, so I have no hard data yet, however I have found that due to the lighter WW prop, the CG is on the aft side.

My plane has a smoke-system from Smoking Airplanes and with full smoke-oil and minimum fuel, there's not much baggage you can have.

Here's the numbers:
Empty CG and empty smoke-oil: 82,20
Empty CG and full smoke-oil: 83,04.

The design range is 78,7-86,82 so there's still a nice margin towards aft CG, but the CG moves quickly aft when loading up the baggage compartment.

More numbers in this tread, post # 7
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=107050

So guys: what's your CG-numbers?
 
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