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Nose wheel Tapered Vs Ball bearings

rv9av8tr

rv9av8tr

Well Known Member
*** VIDEO UPDATED 1/27/12 ***
It now shows landings at 3 different airports
****************

Van's RV nose wheel is standard with tapered roller bearings, which result in significant tire resistance to roll. I had Anti-Splat-Aero change my RV-9A to frictionless sealed ball bearings. The first thing I noticed is how much easier the plane is to pull around on the ground and to steer.

But the difference in nose strut bucking behavior on touchdown is dramatically shown in this video comparison of before and after. I have also added the Anti-Splat-Aero "Nose Job" brace, however the bearing change out is responsible for the difference seen here! In a word... WOW.

http://youtu.be/W0kHXOIop5Y
 
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Allen did this for me as well

I won't be able to test it for another week or so but I am looking forward to the results.

Randy
8A
 
Wet runway..

Good question for Allan at ASA. Last night was first flight since the change and of course it rained just before takeoff. It was pointed out the wet runway reduces surface drag..... granted it does. I'll film it again after work today, it should be dry, and see it there is any difference.
 
Great news Mike on the change to ball bearings. Allan changed mine as well and I'll be installing the wheel tonight and testing tomorrow. I'll also post my video as I've already did the before video for comparison.
 
I say, dramatic difference. one that I still can't believe. Very nice.

I like to get a set of these bearings. Can they be ordered as I don't see it on their web site?
 
Your point is well taken, however wheel weight is low and its not like these see tens of thousands of miles of use. I think the immediate strut stability that results far outweighs any long term unknown that is easily monitored.
 
Bearings

Mike that is a noticable improvement. How many revolutions were you able to get spinning the nose wheel by hand before and after. I was able to greatly reduce the nose wheel friction with the stock bearings by adding a section of tubing between the bearings. The tubing acts like a spacer that seperates bearing preload from axle torque. If memory serves I was getting 1.25 revs before and 8 after this mod.
 
It really has nothing to do with being a roller or taper bearing. It is all about the type of seal used.

Roller bearings typically have a very light pressure on the seal unlike the way the nose wheel is setup with a bunch of pressure on the rubber seal.

I have relieved the seal surface on a couple of friend's front wheel so that the roller bearing rubber seal just barely touches similar to how the ball bearing is set up.

Once that rubber seal interference is alleviated, it rolls very easy.

I don't know that the ball bearing is ever going to fail with the kind of service use the front tire sees, but I like roller bearings myself. If they do fail, they typically do not lock up.
 
Wheel up grade

I spoke to Allen yesterday, This is a service his company is offering,not just a different bearing. The stock wheel, tire&tube will need to be sent in for extensive modification,than balanced,first the wheel then the wheel +tire&tube;Add the nose job attachment and skid plate and you will have the state of the art Vans Tricycle gear.My understanding around $250+ - for the wheel mod.If the Tri-gear was a 50/50 proposition these mods skew the odds in our favor by another 20 to 30%. Time will tell but I believe this is the edge we have all been waiting for. Thank you Allen,and to all who have worked on this problem over the years Thank you also.
Bob Hill
 
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A few observations I have made over the years.

In a caster application the load transferred to the wheel bearings is perpendicular to the axel assuming the caster is free to turn. Simple radial ball bearings handle these axial loads well.

In a steering application the wheel bearings are subject to both radial and axial loads, tapered roller bearings are designed to handle these loads coming from multiple directions.

Sealed bearings properly selected for the application and installed to spec's can last years with no maintenance. The introduction of dirt and water into externally lubricated bearing assemblies is the primary reason for bearing failure.

The bearing makers have made great strides in sealed bearing technology, I have seen sealed bearings used in food packaging machinery subjected to daily wash-down with harsh chemicals and still last the life of the machine.

The rolling resistance of a tapered roller bearing is very sensitive to the amount of preloading, the aircraft industry is unique in the fact that a aluminum hub is used to house the bearing races and the rollers are on a steel axel. Considering the differential expansion rates of the two dissimilar materials indicates the effect temperature can have on the preloading of the bearing.
 
Timken Engineering Manual...

... can be accessed online if you want to project bearing life.

Bearings have life ratings based on testing a statistically significant number of bearings until 10% of them have failed. The failure criteria is quite strict - a surface spall of one sq. millimeter (.040" x .040).

Bearing life is typically 10,000,000 cycles at rated load, which equates to over 7,280 miles if I did the math right. Timken has nomographs so engineers can calculate how much longer a bearing will last at lower loads. I doubt if any one will ever "wear out" a properly lubricated wheel bearing on an RV. I don't even know if it would be possible to brinell a race in a hard landing since there is a suspension (of sorts).

BTW, the requirement to repack the wheel bearings at annual inspections, especially aircraft that have flown 50 hrs/yr. has no engineering basis in my opinion. There is more likelihood of failure resulting from an error during the wheel bearing service.

Larry Tompkins
N544WB -6A purchased
W52 Battle Ground, WA
 
It is impressive seeing how much less the nose wheel oscillates after changing the bearings. I would keep a little closer eye on theses bearings, (for a while anyways) there probably fine, but in my experience a ball bearing doesn't have the life of a tapered roller bearing. My only experience is 20 years on the farm and now 10 years working for different farm machinery manufactures. I have seen several times where a manufacture stuck ball bearings in an area with too much stress resulting in premature failures then having to turn around and update the machines back to roller bears. Granted a machine tilling through the dirt or mowing a field can see a pretty harsh environment.
 
The wheel bearings will suffer more damage sitting on the ground with small movements from wind and vibrations than taxi and landings. The ball bearings will show the most wear due to their contact area.
 
Beancounter said:
Mike that is a noticable improvement. How many revolutions were you able to get spinning the nose wheel by hand before and after. I was able to greatly reduce the nose wheel friction with the stock bearings by adding a section of tubing between the bearings. The tubing acts like a spacer that seperates bearing preload from axle torque. If memory serves I was getting 1.25 revs before and 8 after this mod.
Click to expand...

Mike,
will you better describe your improvement?
 
Anti-Splat Nose Wheel Mod!

….The wheel bearing mod that we do on the stock Matco wheel involves removing the tapered Timken type bearings and the antique felt seal assemblies. We re-machine the two wheel halves to accept the new double sealed precision deep groove ball bearings. We make a center stack up spacer, re-machine the original outside spacers to fit the bearings and the total stack up to the fork inside width. We precision balance the assembly first, then mount and balance the tire and tube. When we are finished you need only to slide your axle bolt in and tighten up the assembly. These deep groove precision bearings are designed for radial as well as axial loads and are the perfect choice for our nose wheel application. They never need service of any kind and are water and dirt proof (the cause of most failures). This is a great improvement and really pays off when changing or repairing a tire out in the dirt or in rain etc. These bearings are rated at many times over the load carrying capacity, radial and axial that will be seen in service on our nose wheels. Wide temperature range (-20F to + 350F) RPM rating at full load (8,100 that’s 260 MPH) Dynamic load rating Cr: 23,600 N, Static load rating Cr: 12,100 N. These bearings should outlast several airplanes and will be the one thing you will not need to concern yourself with. These particular bearings are used on literally hundreds of applications far more severe than ours. They are the wheel bearing of choice for many small Japanese autos (used on the rear of many front wheel drive cars). They are the most popular bearings used on virtually all large, heavy street motorcycles front and rear offering thousands of miles of trouble free service. Once this modification is completed, you can now tighten up the front axle bolt without exerting pressure on the bearings. The problem that we are eliminating isn’t drag from the seals, or for that matter bearing assemblies when unloaded. The real problem is the fact that the axle cannot be tightened without placing an unacceptable amount drag on the original bearings. When weight or stress of any amount is placed on the nose wheel it bends or deflects the axle, thus misaligning the tapered bearings and making them bind up, causing them to try to stop rotation. When the for/aft oscillations begin they try to multiply or snow ball, only causing more violent movement. (Here is a video link demonstrating this phenomenon) Sorry for the poor quality but this is scary and a must see. If you look closely at this video you can see smoke coming off the tire as it locks and unlocks. http://www.eaa538.org/images/nosegear.wmv
After this mod is performed you will notice a considerably shortened time and distance to nose wheel lift off speed, taxiing will require less throttle, aircraft will push and turn much easier, most if not all nose wheel shaking, oscillations and vibrations when landing will vanish. The cost for this is $120 labor $90 materials plus freight and usually requires only a day or two at our facility. I can honestly say this modification made the most dramatic, instantly noticeable improvement of all the things we have done. All the violent shaking, vibrations and oscillations disappeared. As with all of our products, if you aren’t happy, we will cheerfully return your money. Regards all, Allan
 
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Allan is right on

Allan is exactly right on and my experience with this change is EXACTLY as he describes it. My video on the first page is perfect proof of the before and after difference. As Allan said, the very first thing I noticed was how much easier the plane is to pull around on the ground and steer. The difference is just night and day... period. Nay sayers say what you want, I honestly don't care, because the proof is in the results.

Sure, you can loosen up your axle bolt torque on the tapered roller bearings to allow the wheel to roll more freely, but you'll end up spinning those Al spacers against the fork and then you will have a mess.

All I can say is, these nose fork changes from Anti-Splat is the best dang thing I've done and the difference is visually provable.
 
A couple of years ago I replaced the front wheel bearings on my VW Golf. I smashed open one of the old bearings to find it a double ball bearing. The race was worn exactly where I expected it to be, since I was hearing a noise only when cornering. I was surprised that it was a double ball bearing.

Allen what do you think of doing this same sort of bearing mod for main wheels on a tailwheel RV? I wonder if this could elmininate the requirement for gearleg stiffeners. Even though the axle is more robust, as the toe changes with loading it could be that the tapered roller bearings are binding up.
 
I would be interested in seeing a comparison between this Matco bearing mod and the Grove wheel. Does the Grove have roller or ball bearings?
 
rocketbob said:
A couple of years ago I replaced the front wheel bearings on my VW Golf. I smashed open one of the old bearings to find it a double ball bearing. The race was worn exactly where I expected it to be, since I was hearing a noise only when cornering. I was surprised that it was a double ball bearing.

Allen what do you think of doing this same sort of bearing mod for main wheels on a tailwheel RV? I wonder if this could elmininate the requirement for gearleg stiffeners. Even though the axle is more robust, as the toe changes with loading it could be that the tapered roller bearings are binding up.
Click to expand...

I really don't think you would gain much other than eliminating the need to pack and clean bearings as these are completely sealed. The stock bearings on the mains are on a spindle and that works very well because the spindle is vary rigid and doe's not flex or bend, thus not binding up the tapered bearings.
You commented on the ball bearings in your cars front end. It is interesting to me how many people are unaware of the fact that the majority of newer vehicles use these sealed ball bearings on all the wheels. This eliminates the service requirements and failures are few and far between. Thanks, Allan
 
TX7A said:
I would be interested in seeing a comparison between this Matco bearing mod and the Grove wheel. Does the Grove have roller or ball bearings?
Click to expand...

The Grove wheel is an improvement over the Matco in the fact that it uses a three piece axle assembly that sets the preload on the tapered bearings they use. This will allow you to tighten the axle bolt and control some of the flex. It as well as the Berringer wheel are rather expensive and in my opinion the Grove doesn't address the whole problem. Keep in mind that much of the methodology when dealing with anything aviation is cover your rear! This is what they have used for years so why change. This type of bearing setup was the norm from the beginning of aviation to date. That doesn't make it the best for our nose wheel application, Thanks, Allan
 
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Walt said:
The Beringer uses a sealed ball bearing, not a taper bearing.
Click to expand...

Yes I actually have one at our shop. I just didn't clarify that in my post as I meant to. I went back and fixed it to read properly. The Berringer wheel is a very nice piece of work that definitely solves the problem we see here. It is just a little pricey. Thanks, Allan
 
PerfTech said:
?.The wheel bearing mod that we do on the stock Matco wheel involves removing the tapered Timken type bearings and the antique felt seal assemblies. We re-machine the two wheel halves to accept the new double sealed precision deep groove ball bearings. We make a center stack up spacer, re-machine the original outside spacers to fit the bearings and the total stack up to the fork inside width. We precision balance the assembly first, then mount and balance the tire and tube. When we are finished you need only to slide your axle bolt in and tighten up the assembly. These deep groove precision bearings are designed for radial as well as axial loads and are the perfect choice for our nose wheel application. They never need service of any kind and are water and dirt proof (the cause of most failures). This is a great improvement and really pays off when changing or repairing a tire out in the dirt or in rain etc. These bearings are rated at many times over the load carrying capacity, radial and axial that will be seen in service on our nose wheels. Wide temperature range (-20F to + 350F) RPM rating at full load (8,100 that?s 260 MPH) Dynamic load rating Cr: 23,600 N, Static load rating Cr: 12,100 N. These bearings should outlast several airplanes and will be the one thing you will not need to concern yourself with. These particular bearings are used on literally hundreds of applications far more severe than ours. They are the wheel bearing of choice for many small Japanese autos (used on the rear of many front wheel drive cars). They are the most popular bearings used on virtually all large, heavy street motorcycles front and rear offering thousands of miles of trouble free service. Once this modification is completed, you can now tighten up the front axle bolt without exerting pressure on the bearings. The problem that we are eliminating isn?t drag from the seals, or for that matter bearing assemblies when unloaded. The real problem is the fact that the axle cannot be tightened without placing an unacceptable amount drag on the original bearings. When weight or stress of any amount is placed on the nose wheel it bends or deflects the axle, thus misaligning the tapered bearings and making them bind up, causing them to try to stop rotation. When the for/aft oscillations begin they try to multiply or snow ball, only causing more violent movement. (Here is a video link demonstrating this phenomenon) Sorry for the poor quality but this is scary and a must see. If you look closely at this video you can see smoke coming off the tire as it locks and unlocks. http://www.eaa538.org/images/nosegear.wmv
After this mod is performed you will notice a considerably shortened time and distance to nose wheel lift off speed, taxiing will require less throttle, aircraft will push and turn much easier, most if not all nose wheel shaking, oscillations and vibrations when landing will vanish. The cost for this is $120 labor $90 materials plus freight and usually requires only a day or two at our facility. I can honestly say this modification made the most dramatic, instantly noticeable improvement of all the things we have done. All the violent shaking, vibrations and oscillations disappeared. As with all of our products, if you aren?t happy, we will cheerfully return your money. Regards all, Allan
Click to expand...

Sounds like a really good bearing! Sure appreciate all of your work on the nose gear, of these fine airplanes, and eliminating one weak point at a time!
 
Another happy customer

I just had Allen convert my nosewheel over to the ball bearings. All I can say is what a difference. I have had a shimmy ever since my first flight and the conversion has solved the problem. Thanks Allen.

Randy
8A
 
Not to start a fuss

Folks, the hub bearings and the axle bearings on most cars are ball type. Axle ball type bearings have been on pickups since the middle 50's. Lots of load there.
 
I have the Matco axle upgrade on mine ($56) where you can set the preload and by that you can tighten the axle bolt all you want without putting any pressure on the bearing. I also removed some of the sealed material and caused the bearing to role much more free than previously.
 
Just installed and tested ball bearing nosewheel from Antisplataero

We had a longstanding problem with fore and aft shimmy on our 6A nose gear. First we glassed on a wooden stiffener--no real change. Then we installed the Grove axle--no real change. Then we changed the tire to a higher quality one--no real change. Throughout we tried re-balancing and different tire pressures--not much improvement. The best was keeping the nose tire pressure pretty low, but this made us nervous and it was not a full cure. This weekend we installed the antisplataero ball bearing nosewheel and it seems to have cured the problem. Did three take-offs and landings today, and now we can let it roll on the nosewheel until rotation speed and it is very very smooth. On landing when the nosewheel is finally allowed to touch there is a brief burble then it is smooth. We are very pleased. Allan Nimmo turned the job around in a day and the airplane was only down for a week. Worth a look if you are having this problem. I promised Allan I would write this note if it worked, and well, here it is. --LeRoy Johnston N176LD "Esperanza" 540 hours.
 
Lote said:
We had a longstanding problem with fore and aft shimmy on our 6A nose gear. First we glassed on a wooden stiffener--no real change. Then we installed the Grove axle--no real change. Then we changed the tire to a higher quality one--no real change. Throughout we tried re-balancing and different tire pressures--not much improvement. The best was keeping the nose tire pressure pretty low, but this made us nervous and it was not a full cure. This weekend we installed the antisplataero ball bearing nosewheel and it seems to have cured the problem. Did three take-offs and landings today, and now we can let it roll on the nosewheel until rotation speed and it is very very smooth. On landing when the nosewheel is finally allowed to touch there is a brief burble then it is smooth. We are very pleased. Allan Nimmo turned the job around in a day and the airplane was only down for a week. Worth a look if you are having this problem. I promised Allan I would write this note if it worked, and well, here it is. --LeRoy Johnston N176LD "Esperanza" 540 hours.
Click to expand...
Thank you LeRoy For the heads up on the wheel modification. We are pleased that this worked for you and thanks for the business. Regards all, Allan
 
What I like to know how different this solution is as compared to a type of solution offered by Matco solid axle. I am considering sending my nose wheel for a retrofit if there this real difference in the solution.
 
Bavafa said:
What I like to know how different this solution is as compared to a type of solution offered by Matco solid axle. I am considering sending my nose wheel for a retrofit if there this real difference in the solution.
Click to expand...

The Matco solid axle is a very nice part that helps solve the some of the problems. It is also marketed at a very fair price. Actually I don't know how they do it for the price. I feel like if you are going to address the problem at all then do the best all around fix possible. I prefer getting rid of the tapered bearings completely as they are very touchy about preload and any deflection or misalignment. I use the double sealed ball bearings that never require service, packing or replacing of seals. And they are water proof and dirt or dust proof as well. They are virtually frictionless and roll very freely. This is evident as soon as you install them. One less thing to worry about. If you decide not to do this mod then I would say do the Matco axle at least as it will make a considerable difference. Thanks, Allan
 
Allan, The Grove wheel has a glitch with the location of the tube stem hole for the A nose wheels. Can you address that problem at the same time the bearings are installed?

Requires plugging (welding) the existing hole, and drilling a new hole at a better location.
 
gasman said:
Allan, The Grove wheel has a glitch with the location of the tube stem hole for the A nose wheels. Can you address that problem at the same time the bearings are installed?

Requires plugging (welding) the existing hole, and drilling a new hole at a better location.
Click to expand...

Yes I can do that for you. I would prefer you mark it exactly where you would like the tube to be. The Matco is in the center or vary close to center. We can do it then re-balance the wheel. We can also mount your tire & tube and re-balance the complete assembly, Thanks, Allan
 
PerfTech said:
Yes I can do that for you. I would prefer you mark it exactly where you would like the tube to be. The Matco is in the center or vary close to center. We can do it then re-balance the wheel. We can also mount your tire & tube and re-balance the complete assembly, Thanks, Allan
Click to expand...

This is true also with the Grove wheel. The problem is the tube stem is not centered........:eek:
 
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Upgraded Matco

Alan,
Can you do this with the upgraded adjustable pre load matco axle? I've trimmed the seals on mine per the directions and it still doesn't turn as free as I believe it should.

Thanks
 
PaulR said:
Alan,
Can you do this with the upgraded adjustable pre load matco axle? I've trimmed the seals on mine per the directions and it still doesn't turn as free as I believe it should.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes but you will no longer use the Matco axle. If you decide you wish to do the mod please send wheel complete and include your original spacers if you have them. Thanks, Allan
 
Happy Camper

I received my re-done nose wheel from Allan and group on Thursday and installed on Saturday. Well this morning, off I flew to the South Carolina Breakfast Club at Owens field (CUB).

What a pleasant surprise, my take off roll was vibration free, keeping the nose wheel on the ground until 55 mph. Upon landing, I let the nose settle on the runway at 40 mph, a little chirp from the tire and that was it, again a vibration free taxi. The combination of the anti splat device and the new nose wheel bearings are gifts of ingenuity. Did I mention how easy it was to pull out of the hangar also?
 
Glad to see your post!

N42AH said:
I received my re-done nose wheel from Allan and group on Thursday and installed on Saturday. Well this morning, off I flew to the South Carolina Breakfast Club at Owens field (CUB).

What a pleasant surprise, my take off roll was vibration free, keeping the nose wheel on the ground until 55 mph. Upon landing, I let the nose settle on the runway at 40 mph, a little chirp from the tire and that was it, again a vibration free taxi. The combination of the anti splat device and the new nose wheel bearings are gifts of ingenuity. Did I mention how easy it was to pull out of the hangar also?
Click to expand...

...Thank you Steve for the heads up on your wheel mod. We are pleased to see you are happy with our products and services. We do appreciate your business and hope we can help you in the future. Please have a look at our web site <AntiSplatAero.com> from time to time as we are always offering new products for our fellow RVers. Thanks, Allan :D
 
I sent my nose wheel to ASA for the bearing mod as well. Very nice workmanship and performs exceptionally well. I have only 3 hrs on it and about 6 landings but have not had any hint of shimmy so far. Before the mod I would get shimmy anytime I exceeded 20 mph. This is a simple solution to a nagging problem.
 
Happy Customer!!!

I stopped by Allan's shop this morning and had my nose wheel modified to the sealed ball bearings. I am happy to report that my 6A now begins to taxi about 150rpm lower than before. The difference is instantly noticeable. On landing the lowering of the nose was met with very little friction and I was able to taxi back using just rudders vice brakes. (I know you should always be using rudders, but at the slow speeds I taxi with this nose gear, the rudder is not always effective)

To see the process first hand was very educational. Allan was very accommodating and answered all of my 'Newbie' questions. The entire modification is done by hand and worth every penny.

I also picked up the "Nose Job" and "Prop Wrench", but haven't used them yet!

Thanks again Allan!

Dan
 
Thank You !

Omega232Devils said:
I stopped by Allan's shop this morning and had my nose wheel modified to the sealed ball bearings. I am happy to report that my 6A now begins to taxi about 150rpm lower than before. The difference is instantly noticeable. On landing the lowering of the nose was met with very little friction and I was able to taxi back using just rudders vice brakes. (I know you should always be using rudders, but at the slow speeds I taxi with this nose gear, the rudder is not always effective)

To see the process first hand was very educational. Allan was very accommodating and answered all of my 'Newbie' questions. The entire modification is done by hand and worth every penny.

I also picked up the "Nose Job" and "Prop Wrench", but haven't used them yet!

Thanks again Allan!

Dan
Click to expand...

Thank you for the business and we enjoyed meeting you and all the conversation. We now have our truing machine finished and can true and balance to perfection. Perhaps next time you change your nose wheel you can stop by and we could true it for you. Again thanks for the business. Regards, Allan...:D
 
Nose wheel upgrade

This sounds like a good upgrade. Sealed bearings.

What is the cost of the nosewheel upgrade? I am considering it.
 
Nose wheel upgrade

This upgrade will be on my upgrade list at the condition inspection downtime. Looking forward to it.
 
Allan,

I have a "Grove" Titanium front wheel (which I am pleased with) and live in Australia (I'm also pleased with that ;).
Because of the time it would take to turn around from Australia. Would you by any chance have a service where I could send you the wheel that came with the Kit (Matco I think), you upgrade it, fit a tyre and tube (that you acquire for me) and balance it etc. And when I get it back I then fit it to our 9a and send you the Grove wheel for the treatment? I could then refit the grove to the 9a, when I get it back and have a spare front wheel.

Hoping you can help me

Bob
 
RetiredRacer said:
Allan,

I have a "Grove" Titanium front wheel (which I am pleased with) and live in Australia (I'm also pleased with that ;).
Because of the time it would take to turn around from Australia. Would you by any chance have a service where I could send you the wheel that came with the Kit (Matco I think), you upgrade it, fit a tyre and tube (that you acquire for me) and balance it etc. And when I get it back I then fit it to our 9a and send you the Grove wheel for the treatment? I could then refit the grove to the 9a, when I get it back and have a spare front wheel.

Hoping you can help me

Bob
Click to expand...

...We can do what ever works best for you, no worries. Just let us know how and what works best for you and it will be done. Thanks, Allan...:D
 
RetiredRacer said:
Allan,

I have a "Grove" Titanium front wheel (which I am pleased with) and live in Australia (I'm also pleased with that ;).
Because of the time it would take to turn around from Australia. Would you by any chance have a service where I could send you the wheel that came with the Kit (Matco I think), you upgrade it, fit a tyre and tube (that you acquire for me) and balance it etc. And when I get it back I then fit it to our 9a and send you the Grove wheel for the treatment? I could then refit the grove to the 9a, when I get it back and have a spare front wheel.

Hoping you can help me

Bob
Click to expand...

I think that would be a magnesium wheel.
 
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