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SB 14-01-31; RV-6, 7, 8

The notch is where ?

Low Pass said:
Interesting about the position of this "notch". How would one see any potential cracking behind that rib flange? Tough dilemma.
Click to expand...

So maybe that is some of it. In this picture (as in my 7a) the notch is further outboard and appears to be more centered over the bend line which I think is on the edge of the flange. If the notch is more inboard of that, which many seem to be based on the relationship to the rib flange. It may be that the notch isn't working well in some cases because it is a half inch too far inboard.

Just saying that it seems to me like the notch should be centered on the bend line and many are inboard of that. I think you can see that in many pictures by looking at the location relative to the rib flange. I think this is the way it is supposed to be ..... slightly under the flange.

Of course many are flying fine with no notches at all.

Just thinking out loud ....
 
My intention is not to rag on Van's. I think they are doing a good job with this SB business. Just curious if anyone else has been placed in the holding pattern trying to order parts? The hang up could have been an accident... it happens
 
Gonzo24 said:
My intention is not to rag on Van's. I think they are doing a good job with this SB business. Just curious if anyone else has been placed in the holding pattern trying to order parts? The hang up could have been an accident... it happens
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody wants to rag on Van's, people are just shook up a little and are looking for answers.
 
LifeofReiley said:
snip.... I know the heat is turned up a little at Van's ...snip.
Click to expand...

snip dr

Personal vendettas will not be tolerated. We have much more important matters that need to be attended to. Please don't encourage us mods to push the button.....
 
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Stabilizer and Elevator SB Inspection N569TC

I inspected our RV-7A N569TC today. The stabilizer and elevator were inspected for cracks per both service bulletins. Our HS spar is relieved (notched) per plans. No cracks were found.
TTAF 360 Hr's
IO360 M1B
Hartzell Blended Airfoil CS Prop
Fly from paved fields only
No Acro
Tedtheflyer
 
Sam Buchanan said:
No, it wasn't rude...Scott exercised great restraint to avoid being drawn into a childish shoving match.

Personal vendettas will not be tolerated. We have much more important matters that need to be attended to. Please don't encourage us mods to push the button.....
Click to expand...

Right on Sam.
 
Van's SB's

RV-6A, N207A
Built: 1993
4th owner
TT: 1490
Lyc 0-320 E2D
Sensenich FP prop
No acro
No grass field ops
No notches
No cracks r.e. both SB's
 
SB 2014

Van's SB's
RV-8 ECXJG
spain
Built: 2012
TT: 70
Lyc IO360M1B
Sensenich FP prop
acro <4gs
No notches
No cracks r.e. both SB's
 
vans SB's

RV-6A
TT 988
Lyc 0360
Sensenich FP Metal Prop
Gentleman Acro
Notches
mostly paved
1 Crack top starboard front spar radiating from notch
1 Crack outboard elevator below jam nut
 
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THREE DAY DELIVERY

Gonzo24 said:
My intention is not to rag on Van's. I think they are doing a good job with this SB business. Just curious if anyone else has been placed in the holding pattern trying to order parts? The hang up could have been an accident... it happens
Click to expand...

After reading everything I could on the SB I ordered one up online three days ago figuring it would be weeks with all the interest. :(
Really surprised to find a big shipping envelope in my mailbox today from Vans. :eek: Three days... Normally I can't get things I need ASAP that fast.:)
 
RV-6
TT ~120
YO360-A1A
Sensenich 72/85 metal
Grass strip
A few aileron rolls
Tend to push with tail
HS-602 Fwd Spar - small notches
No cracks

Jim Sharkey
 
No cracks...

RV6A circa 2003
375 TT
0-360 A1A
Sensi FP prop
No acro or grass in past 75 hrs (aircraft bought flying at 300 hrs)
Small notches
No cracks


Needed hi res pics with a lot of magnification to reassure myself that the bottom starboard notch didn't have a crack. Probably should have cleaned overspray off better, but I'm confident I'm okay for this year. I would absolutely not trust the naked eye alone on this; I got so much more detail from the pics.
 
No cracks

2010 RV-6
326 hours TT
O-360, Sensenich metal
Light acro, minimal grass
Small notches
 
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SB Insp. Results

1993 RV-6
4th owner
700 TT
Lyc 0-360
Sensenich FP
light/moderate maneuvering/acro (<5G's) since i've owned it (80hrs)
no grass since i've owned it
no notches that i could discern
no cracks on either SB :)
 
Rivet removal procedure

I posted earlier in the thread that I would link to the rivet removal procedure when it published. Since it has not yet, and some people are starting to do work on their stabilizers, I decided to to ahead and write up a description of the procedure(s) that I use.

If interested, you can find it in THIS THREAD
 
I have successively removed the HS 404 and 405 ribs today:D the hardest part was drilling from the rear towards the front to remove the rivets that hold the 404 and 405 together. I used a 12 in 40 drill, flex with a rag holding the bit perpendicular to the flange 3/4 the way through, drilled the manufactured head slightly with a 30, took a sharp wood chisel to remove the head, took a 16 nail turned down to fit in the 40 hole, taped to the rivet gun on 20 psi, taped a nut on my tungsten bucking bar for the back stop dolly and pulled the trigger ever so slightly. Clean holes! I got the procedure idea from Walt's post but had to come up with an idea to do this single handed.
 
SB Results

RV-8
Built 2001
3rd owner
TMX 0-360
Hartzel Blended Airfoil
805 hours on airframe
Acro limited to <4g
1 crack on RH spar
No cracks on elevator
Planning on installing ALL reinforcements while it is disassembled
 
Service Bulletins

2012 RV-7A
105 hrs T.T.
Lyc o-360-A1A
Sensenich FP Metal 72/85
No Acro
No Grass
Notches
No cracks either S.B.

Often run @2200 rpm @about 130K in cruise.
Seldom run @2400+ rpm. (in cruise)
 
ILikePike said:
Pictures Bret?
Click to expand...

well, kinda getto, but it worked.
DSC04413_zps0af627a5.jpg
 
So if you did the HS like me, the manifactured heads are facing rear, and HS 405 is installed so that it is dificult to drill, I had to bend the 12inch 40 drill while drilling to get a straight shot in the MH of the rivet. These are the tools I used. Kinda back yardish but it worked.

DSC04414_zpsdc0b2845.jpg
 
Quick question before my stats. Before I went out and complied with the SB, I thought it was only for the "top" left & right of the forward spar. I didn't even think about the lower left & right sides. I ended up checking all 4 corners, anyway, because I'm assuming that's what the SB calls for.

1. Are you folks checking all 4 corners?
2. Are you all removing paint before checking? Hope that's not a bad question, but the picture on the SB makes it look like you should be able to easily see a crack, but the text tells you to remove the paint before checking.

2009 RV-7A
220 hrs T.T.
ECI 0-360-A1A
Catto 3 blade
very little acro
almost always operated on paved runways
Does have notches
No cracks
 
2001 RV-6
900 hrs
Wood Prop, O-320
Mild Acro - loops, rolls, rarely >4 G's.
Some (few) grass op's.
No notches.

No cracks.
 
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RV-8 with no cracks

RV-8 completed in 2006
IO-360 M1 with 9.2 to one and LS ignition
WW200 RV prop
1350 hours TT
Lots of acro; all <4 G's
Often push back on HS
No grass
No notches
No cracks; either SB
 
lostpilot28 said:
1. Are you folks checking all 4 corners?
2. Are you all removing paint before checking? Hope that's not a bad question, but the picture on the SB makes it look like you should be able to easily see a crack, but the text tells you to remove the paint before checking.
Click to expand...

I checked all 4 corners...

Two of my corners were blatantly obvious that there's no sign of even the remotest possibility of a crack, but two corners (upper starboard and lower port) had enough paint on them that I couldn't be absolutely certain... so I spent the time with a box of q-tips and various solvents to remove the paint and in the end there were no cracks to be found. I discovered that fully-cured, ten-year-old polyurethane paint and epoxy primer is awfully tough to remove with typical hardware store solvents... a mixture of non-chlorinated brake cleaner and MEK worked better than any other solvent alone, and it still took a long time and a lot of rubbing with q-tips. I wasn't about to use any harsh chemical paint stripper for fear of inducing corrosion.
 
Paint remover

I was just thinking about this very topic. What should you use to remove the corrosion resistant materials or paint to be able to do this inspection?

I've heard of using MEk but also biodegradable paint removers or aircraft type paint removers.

Not trying to hijack this thread but maybe make it part of it???????

Or is there another thread asking this question?

Thanks
 
Inspection results

RV-6A
Built 2/21/2005
Third owner
512 hrs TT
Lycoming 0-320-01A
Hartzell HC-C2YL-1BF prop
No known acro
Typically hard surface use.
No notches
No cracks on either S.B.
 
RV-8A
O-360 A1A
Hartzel CS
Finished 1999
+1100 hrs
Multiple Owners
Yes-Acro
Yes-grass
Yes-dirt
Yes-pavement
Yes-VFR
Yes-IFR
Yes-Formation Flying
Yes-long X-C trips
Yes-Hot Wx ops
Yes-Cold Wx ops

No Cracks. 😎👍🍺
 
No cracks

RV-6
1230 Hrs TT
Built 1993
3rd owner for past 200 hrs
Slider
O-360 A1A
Hartzell C/S
Light acro
No towbar [that's going to change]
occasional rough turf runways
Notches
No Cracks
 
I wonder what the relation would be to those who are operating at gross weight a lot of the time? If the heavier weights are an issue, could the GW be reduced to do away with SB.
 
missing info

Rotorheadrob said:
RV-8A
O-360 A1A
Hartzel CS
Finished 1999
+1100 hrs
Multiple Owners
Yes-Acro
Yes-grass
Yes-dirt
Yes-pavement
Yes-VFR
Yes-IFR
Yes-Formation Flying
Yes-long X-C trips
Yes-Hot Wx ops
Yes-Cold Wx ops

No Cracks. 😎👍🍺
Click to expand...

Notches??
I'm guessing "No"

Mark
 
No Cracks

RV7A
2005
1135 hours
O 360
Hartzell BA CS Prop
95% pavement
Relief notches in all 4 corners
No cracks on either SB.

Gary
N715AB
 
Neal@F14 said:
I checked all 4 corners...

Two of my corners were blatantly obvious that there's no sign of even the remotest possibility of a crack, but two corners (upper starboard and lower port) had enough paint on them that I couldn't be absolutely certain... so I spent the time with a box of q-tips and various solvents to remove the paint and in the end there were no cracks to be found. I discovered that fully-cured, ten-year-old polyurethane paint and epoxy primer is awfully tough to remove with typical hardware store solvents... a mixture of non-chlorinated brake cleaner and MEK worked better than any other solvent alone, and it still took a long time and a lot of rubbing with q-tips. I wasn't about to use any harsh chemical paint stripper for fear of inducing corrosion.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Neal. I ended up using a lot of Q-tips and some lacquer thinner. Most of my empennage was primed with rattle-can primer, so it came off pretty easily.

I think my motive for asking the question about upper vs. lower cracks would be to see if anyone is seeing cracks on the bottom corners. Seems like the upper corners are getting all the attention...
 
RV-8
s/n 80462
200 TT
Completed 6/06
O-360-A1D
WW200RV - balanced
some grass
some acro
towbar
no notches
no cracks
 
Suprised to see fretting

When I removed the top angle I was surprised to see fretting.
See photos below. The metal was flexing a good bit to cause this.
Its not deep and can be cleaned up with Scotch Brite.
I checked the botttom, both sides with dye penetrant and no cracks on the bottom.
In the photo the elevator is turned upside down.

I've cut two of the spar flanges back at an angle so far.
Surprisingly, this may be the most difficult part of the SB.

Mark



20140207_202950.jpg


20140207_202801.jpg
 
I finished taking mine apart this morning, if you really look at it, this mod is going to add a great deal of strength to the forward spar. I can see where the flimsy sheet metal spar could flex easily during non SAL flight, stalls, spins ect.
 
jrm7997 said:
I was just thinking about this very topic. What should you use to remove the corrosion resistant materials or paint to be able to do this inspection?

I've heard of using MEk but also biodegradable paint removers or aircraft type paint removers.

Not trying to hijack this thread but maybe make it part of it???????

Or is there another thread asking this question?

Thanks
Click to expand...


I did my initial inspection yesterday, but had a tiny niggling doubt about one corner. Went back today with a can of lacquer thinner from Canadian Tire (MEK and toluene). Cleaned the 10 year old overspray and primer very easily; only had to use 2 Q-tips to get down to shiny metal around the notch. Glad I did; my hi-res photos after cleaning leave no doubt that there is no crack, and the cleaning process only took me about 5 minutes.
 
gerrychuck said:
I did my initial inspection yesterday, but had a tiny niggling doubt about one corner. Went back today with a can of lacquer thinner from Canadian Tire (MEK and toluene). Cleaned the 10 year old overspray and primer very easily; only had to use 2 Q-tips to get down to shiny metal around the notch. Glad I did; my hi-res photos after cleaning leave no doubt that there is no crack, and the cleaning process only took me about 5 minutes.
Click to expand...

Ten year old airplane and no cracks....some 15-20 years old and no cracks....newer machines are not passing muster. Maybe the aluminum is being imported like so many other inferior products.
Something has changed.
 
RV8

The Borrowed Horse has no cracks! Well the pilot is a "Butt Crack" but that is another story,:rolleyes:

RV8 2007

550 hours since new,
No acro,
A few scary landings,,,, :eek:
Lots of grass operations.
No EFIS, No Glass panel, :cool:
No notches in HS spar.
No cracks in H/S spar web
No cracks in rudder or elevator doublers :D
 
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RV-6A completed 1997, 1993 tail kit
Original owner/builder
1,100+ hrs (tach)
O-320, Hartzell C/S
Mild Acro for the first 5 yrs- loops, rolls
First 14 years on grass, last 2+ on pavement
No notches
No cracks on both SBs
 
Mark Burns said:
Notches??
I'm guessing "No"

Mark
Click to expand...

Correct, No Notches.

No Cracks.

Older kit.

Dispite this SB, total confidence in these stout planes.

An outstanding use of VAF community. Pulling together to determine cause and assist one another sort this and other issues. 😉👍
 
David-aviator said:
Ten year old airplane and no cracks....some 15-20 years old and no cracks....newer machines are not passing muster. Maybe the aluminum is being imported like so many other inferior products.
Something has changed.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but my plane only has 375 TT despite being 10 years old; not a high hour bird at all.
 
Nope!

Finally got around to checking mine today; no cracks.
RV-8
2003 vintage tail kit
1090 hrs
No notches.
Some grass, easy acro.
O-360 180hp, CS prop.
 
Good til next recurring inspection

Finally Did my inspection

No Notches - No Cracks
Tail section built circa 2003, plane not finished until 2011
Total time 175 hours
some acro
some grass
lives on rough paved strip (52F)
rarely push on tail, (has retractable handles) so no need
Composite constant speed prop (MT)
180 HP
 
Inspected me RV-8 yesterday. No cracks. Superior O-360 A1A Hartzell. No acrobatics mostly flown off of grass. Not a prepunched kit. About 500 TT. Also, checked son's RV 6. About 150 hours TT. Lycoming O-320 E2D no acro. Old slow built kit. Also flown off of grass. Jay dropped in while I had both airplanes apart and confirmed my findings. Guess, we dodged the bullet for now...
 
I guess I'm lucky, I built a second HS as I wasn't happy with the first.. And as of last month it is ready for priming and final assembly. I will be incorporating the SB fix now.
 
No cracks

At 694.1 hours time in service I found no cracks in either the horizontal stabilizer or elevator as mentioned in their SBs. No aerobatics, hard surface runways. No notches on this 1997 tail kit.
 
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