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  #1  
Old 01-28-2013, 05:51 PM
Aiki_Aviator's Avatar
Aiki_Aviator Aiki_Aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 251
Default Finalizing Panel: All thoughts welcome

Hi all,

I am in the final throws of sending my panel of to be CNC'd and engraved for my RV-10. I am after any and all comments as to the layout to ensure I have missed no specific issues and I have covered all bases.

Link to pdf : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/95034127/Panel_Design%20V2.pdf

UPDATED!!:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/95034127/Ful...2020120130.pdf
- Noted changes: Switches more aligned, panel space for annunciator lights, all positions checked and re-checked. Dial alignment confirmed (Could'nt centralise due to panel supports, trying to maintain standard rear supports). Push to talk still being investigated....

Updated: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95034127/Fu...2020120202.pdf
Changes: Looking at where I can utilise a remote transponder and how the panel may work with that. Yes there is a new remote transponder that will work with AFS... it's sort of a Trig...
Made modifications in line with many comments from this thread. Thanks guys. Room top left for annunciators. Some technical changes where AFS does not require GPS source change. Note, can't centralise "dials" due to support bracketing. Want to keep rear sections standard.

I have chosen to use some colour coding so that the dash is simplified under stress, and elected to use toggle switches so that they can be easily replaced should it be required.

I have also created some separation on switches to try and segregate the functional requirements.

The colour coding is as follows:

Green (NOW Grey): All good to Go; normal operating position
Yellow: Alternative operating due to failure/problem
White: Standard operating alternative

The instrumentation I am looking at completing in the cutouts is as follows:

--- Primary Instruments ---
2 x AFS 5500 with dual magnetometers, and a single GPS
1 x VPX-Pro (hidden)
1 x AFS Autopilot (flat pack)
1 x PAR100EX - Radio/Audio Panel (Backup radio)
1 x Garmin GTN650
1 x Trig 22 ADSB-out compliant transponder
Dual Alternators (hidden)

--- Backup Instruments ---
1 x 2.25" UMA Airspeed Indicator (thanks Bob...mistype)
1 x 2.25" Winter Altimeter
1 x 2.25" ADI2 with backup battery
1 x Standard whisky compass (on windscreen mount - not shown)

I have also wired a complete bypass electrical solution for a complete VPX-Pro failure. (mid top of panel) Of course this is highly unlikely to happen.

I plan to have this in black anodised aluminium as a replacement for the standard Vans panel.

Please feel free to make any comments, or raise concerns.

And another update: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95034127/2012_02_05_Font_B.pdf
Modified the font to see if this provides an easier readability. Spaced the writing a little further from the switches. Needed to add back the transponder due to certification requirements of ADS-B altitude encoding for 2020. Unfortunately due to space and screw holes, needs to be central. Am happy with that as the primary instruments for backup, Airspeed, AH, Altimeter and Compass all in same position. Modified colurs so that they have more contrast.

Final Panel: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95034127/20130210_Final.pdf
I have now completed the panel and it is being submitted to Front Panels Express.

They have been GREAT!!!! Extremely happy with thier service.

The configuration has changed somewhat, I am now incorporating the Dynon Transponder unit instead of the Trig-22, and have added some additional content.

I want to thank everyone for helping me get to here. The information and discussion has been INVALUABLE.

If anyone wants a copy of the panel file OR wants any of the macro objects I created for the purpose. Just drop me an email. I would be glad to help.



Thanks in advance.
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Andrew Long
#41055
RV10: Happy little Vegemite :-)
Feb 2015: Now fully functional..... and quick

http://www.ozrv10.com

Last edited by Aiki_Aviator : 02-09-2013 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Updated
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:07 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,327
Default

My only comment is, why two altimeters? An airspeed indicator would be beneficial.

If the budget permits, you may want to consider getting one of the smaller monitor screens for the right side. I put one in to entertain the person in the right seat. But it appears that AFS is no longer selling them. Too bad, that was an inexpensive way to display EFIS data.

Bob
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:36 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,167
Default

Double, tripple, quadruple check your spacing.

I finished the layout of my new panel and was thrilled with how well it was all going to work. When I installed my switches and breakers I realized I had miscalculated the spacing and they were a tiny bit too close. I had to scrap the panel.

I finished laying out the second new panel and was thrilled with how well it was all going to work. I test fit everything. I then painted and labeled everything. When I went to reinstall the switches, I realized the keyed ring on the switches was larger than I had allowed for and they slightly covered some of the labeling. It was not enough to force me to disassemble and re-paint/label but it was a bit of a bummer.

Last edited by humptybump : 01-29-2013 at 04:55 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:36 AM
Aiki_Aviator's Avatar
Aiki_Aviator Aiki_Aviator is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 251
Default Altimeter/Airspeed indicator

Thanks Bob,

Ah, yep. Mistyping. It was a UMA Airspeed Indicator....

When you say AFS is not seloing the smaller monitors.. which ones are you refering to? the 3500 series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
My only comment is, why two altimeters? An airspeed indicator would be beneficial.

If the budget permits, you may want to consider getting one of the smaller monitor screens for the right side. I put one in to entertain the person in the right seat. But it appears that AFS is no longer selling them. Too bad, that was an inexpensive way to display EFIS data.

Bob
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#41055
RV10: Happy little Vegemite :-)
Feb 2015: Now fully functional..... and quick

http://www.ozrv10.com
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:42 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,922
Default Aftermarket panel.

Andrew, this is a good opportunity to use a much nicer panel than the flat aluminum sheet Van provides. There are several that really beautify the interior. Here is one:

http://aerosportproducts.com/


I have a modified, three-panel, Lancair panel in mine:




Best,
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46 years ag pilot/CFI
Air Tractor 502/PT-6
Building RV-12, Wings, fuse, emp complete. FWF in progress.

Last edited by pierre smith : 01-29-2013 at 04:46 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:04 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiki_Aviator View Post
Thanks Bob,

Ah, yep. Mistyping. It was a UMA Airspeed Indicator....

When you say AFS is not seloing the smaller monitors.. which ones are you refering to? the 3500 series?

Yes, the 3400, 3500, & 4500. AFS used to offer screens in a variety of functions. One was just a video monitor that slaved off a functional EFIS. So it appears to the user as a fully functional EFIS, but it reality it was just a screen driven by another EFIS. The benefits was to be able to add an additional screen at a much lessor cost.
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:15 AM
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Aerosport1 Aerosport1 is offline
 
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Andrew I like the layout. It is very similar to what I have. Attached is my
Aerosport Standard panel with the AFS 5500 screens. I love the layout


Geoff
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:53 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,257
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Looks like your transponder is in the best place for the round airspeed indicator. And if you have an angle of attack instrument, that might go in that location or to its immediate left.

I'm thinking that the upper left section of the panel is the easiest to scan on take-off or approach and landing.

Dave
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2013, 02:45 PM
roee roee is offline
 
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Location: San Diego, CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 770
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Andrew,

Overall I like your layout. I've recently done my panel, some of the design concepts being similar to yours. I have a few thoughts to offer. Due to time constraints this afternoon, I'll limit my comments to broad issues.

As has already been mentioned, you gave the transponder better real estate than it deserves. The transponder doesn't need to be part of your instrument scan. I suggest you swap positions, putting the three backup instruments to the left, closer to the center of the pilot's field of view, and put the transponder to the right of them.

Also, consider mounting the transponder in a standard 2.25" round hole configuration, rather than the non-standard smaller cut-out. Using a standard round hole will give you more flexibility for future upgrades. It will also probably be more aesthetically pleasing next to the three other round holes.

Speaking of the round holes, check your screw hole patterns. It looks like the lower left hole on the rightmost instrument hole is out of position. And the center instrument hole doesn't have screw holes... I'm not reviewing it to that level of detail, just something I noticed. Is this meant to be your dimensioned CAD drawing that will get built, or is this just an initial sketch?

Along the same lines as the transponder location, the area above the left EFIS is also prime real-estate, and would be an ideal place for annunciators if you had them. Or otherwise, maybe the A/P if it fits? Anyway, taking up that space with the switches and pots that you have there seems like a waste. Those could go anywhere, certainly don't need to be in the pilot's center of vision.

About the engraved legends, I suggest you have a small test card made to try out different font types, font sizes, font spacing, all caps versus lower case, engraving thickness, and infill colors. You can't judge these well by looking at a drawing. You need to see it for real, in the actual process and materials used, at a realistic distance and range of viewing angles, and under different lighting conditions. I suspect that as you currently have it, it might not be as easy to read as you would want, especially under low light.

About the use of legend colors in general (aside from contrast issues in low light), I think the concept has some merit, but is better to use more judiciously. The objective should be to make it easier to scan the panel and quickly and reliably attain the info you need, whether it's to verify that everything is set in the "normal" condition, or to quickly find a switch that you need to actuate, etc. As you have it currently, it looks to me a little too busy, where the jumble of colors makes scanning the switches more confusing, not less. Personally, I would stay with white for most if not all the legends, and use an accent color (yellow or red) very judiciously, only for something that really warrants it. An example would be a switch to activate a fire suppression system, or an ejection handle, but I don't think you have either of those?

Also, double-check that you have sufficient clearance between the switch holes and legends, so that the nuts that hold the switch bushings in place don't cover up the legends.

Hope that helps.

-Roee
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:07 PM
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Michael Wellenzohn Michael Wellenzohn is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zuerich, Switzerland
Posts: 157
Default CoPi PTT button?

Hi Andrew,
just one thought you might want to add a push to talk button on the CoPi side in case you don't want the CoPi to have the hand on the stick while you fly.


Regards
Michael
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