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Do athletic people have an easier time learning to fly ?

Paul Tuttle

Well Known Member
I was listening to an interesting conversation between two of my (very experienced) flight instructor friends. The topic at the time was weather athletic people pick up the stick and rudder stuff easier than people who are not so athletic. It was their opinion that it seemed to make a difference. I suppose it stands to reason, if one were coordinated enough to be a decent athlete, it should transfer to other things in life.

Does anyone have an opinion on this ?

It may not hold true in all cases. I played a few sports in my day... :eek:
 
Um.. well sure. Especially motocrossers due to the air time (not logged) of jumping doubles/triples and the infamous "Flying W" manuever. :D Did them both :eek:

**Edit** My joke withstanding, after seeing the posts below, I thought it would be proper to add info. I was a soccer player before soccer was cool. State championship. Solo'ed in 5.6 hrs but I attributed it to right seat time in Dad's Mooney rather than the sports.
 
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Seems Reasonable

My loads engineer instructor said the same thing. It would stand to reason that hand/eye coordination is better in athletic people. 3D spatial orientation is also better in technically competent people. I'm an aero engr and A&P, gymnastics and martial arts in my youth and I soloed in 6 hours in a taildragger. No savant, but I understand and can visualize the airplane in space pretty well and I think that helps. I also think athletes are less injury fearful than the average person so elevated risk taking enables pilot training, too.
 
Younger maybe

Athletic I'm not sure of. But I can't count how many times my instructor told me we'd be done if I was twenty years younger.
 
We used to have a theory that the best pilot trainees were Music majors: they have good hands and a fast crosscheck.
 
There's "learning to fly an airplane" and then there's "getting your pilot's license". If heard it told that often times when someone picks up the flying skills easily that they struggle with some of the academic stuff further down the road to getting their license. Of course the usual exceptions apply.

Jim

PS: Then there's us older types that have a harder picking up the flying skills and also struggle with the academic stuff! :confused:
 
It's probably not "athletes have an easier time learning to fly" but rather "those with good eye-hand coordination, spacial aptitude, and geometry, find althetics to be easier and find learning to fly to be easier".

But let's not forget the strength of the flight instructor. There are those that teach flying and those who teach airplane driving.
 
Eat Burgers

And for aerobatics, Blue Angel pilots say they routinely have their well-fit passengers with low heart rates lose consciousness in high-G maneuvers. The short round folks with higher blood pressure seem to withstand better. Don't know if he was joking or not.:p
 
I seem to remember back in my riotous youth, when I was athletic, physically fit, coordinated, and ready to best anything with wings, an OLD pilot offered to give me tail dragger experience in his aeronca. To make a long story short, he hit me repeatedly in the back of my head while taxiing, taking off, flying, and landing saying: " Whatsha doin', tryin" ta KILL us?" Wack! Wack! Considering it took me longer to fly tailwheel than get my PP, I came to the conclusion some are born with the talent, others must work our butt off. Gotta be in the genes :eek:
 
I couldn't do a pullup in high school ( or ever...) Couldn't run without tripping over myself. Couldn't touch my toes. Always thought the hardest part of flying was climbing into the airplane. The first time I ever felt graceful is the day of my first solo...in a Taylorcraft on grass. It took 15 hours to solo but it was spread out over a year of weekend lessons.

So I would say no, athleticism has no bearing! I've always been a bit of an outlier, however... ;
 
I'm pretty sure they were talking about coordination and perhaps reflexes. I don't think being able to bench press 300 lbs is of much use in the cockpit.
Also I don't think it would help a lot with the decision making aspect of flying.

I once heard that artists and pilots use the same hemisphere of the brain and are supposed to find learning to fly to be a natural experience.

Having been a decent athlete once upon a time and a bit of an artist as well, I'd like to be able to say both of these notions are true, but...:confused:
 
And for aerobatics, Blue Angel pilots say they routinely have their well-fit passengers with low heart rates lose consciousness in high-G maneuvers. The short round folks with higher blood pressure seem to withstand better. Don't know if he was joking or not.:p

Certainly this has been my personal experience. I've rarely done any aerobatics (though I did spin training as part of the PPL) because my blood pressure is on the low side of normal and heart rate is well below "average" at about 50 resting. Every time I even think about aerobatics I get dizzy which is unfortunate. As they say, "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."

Greg
 
Never played many sports, but I've found that after losing weight I fit even better in the 12 ;) although there is plenty of space anyways! Even though I'm still going through flight instruction, I do believe hand-eye coordination is something that can greatly influence how 'natural' flying feels.
 
I was never a good athlete, but I did play drums in a rock band.:rolleyes: I was told by my CFI that I was a "natural." I soloed in 5 hours, got my PPL in 40 hours, and greased my first crosswind landings.:D

I think the attributes of a quick-learning pilot are good hand/foot/eye coordination and especially good spatial & situational awareness.
 
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And for aerobatics, Blue Angel pilots say they routinely have their well-fit passengers with low heart rates lose consciousness in high-G maneuvers. The short round folks with higher blood pressure seem to withstand better. Don't know if he was joking or not.:p

Not a joke, this is true. Excess G forces cause pooling of the blood in your lower extremeties. The result can be a syncopal like loss of consciousness. The way to combat it is to increase your blood pressure and there are techniques to do that while flying. So if you naturally have higher blood pressure you will have a higher resting G tolerance. But being in good physical condition allows you to better deal with the repeated bouts of high G.

As a former military flight instructor and a CFII, Paul is right in that raw physical strength or speed are not factors. Characteristics such as hand eye coordination, reflexes, and ability to rapidly process visual information are key to picking up flying faster. However I have met many people who have those characteristics, but wouldn't traditionally be considered athletic because they are either scrawny or overweight.

Having said that, flying is the easy part and being a pilot is the hard part.
 
You can teach a monkey to fly if you have enough bananas but you can't teach him judgement. As for the artsy folks, my wife is one of those but she has no mechanical ability - nor any interest in such things.

I've seen folks that were God's gift to aviation in that they had the mechanical stuff down pat but they had zero common sense. The lucky ones managed to survive - and learn. Others were slow to the point that you wanted to send them home for everyones safety but they turned out to be good, safe pilots.

Everyone is a little different as to what makes them tick. Many times you would find, especially in the military training environment, that the instructor was the problem. Instructors have to learn that what works for one, doesn't work for the next student.

Doctors, engineers (I are one), lawyers, etc can make some of the absolute worst students. In the end, anyone with reasonable intelligence, common sense and the DESIRE to make it a priority will do well.
 
Try glider training

If you want the best flying training try instruction in a glider (sailplane). The best stick and rudder time you can buy. One other benefit is knowing if the fan stops turning the aircraft will fly, if you maintain air speed and coordination.

Also it's a lot of fun

Dan J
 
If you want the best flying training try instruction in a glider (sailplane). The best stick and rudder time you can buy. One other benefit is knowing if the fan stops turning the aircraft will fly, if you maintain air speed and coordination.

Also it's a lot of fun

Dan J

X 2! Many memories from years back in a Schweiser (sp?) 232 and how much rudder was needed!

Best,
 
As an instructor; both GA and Part 121, I see zero correlation between athleticism and non-athleticism. Men & women are on "about" equal footing; men learn some things more quickly & vice versa. Education also plays little into the equation at the private pilot level.

It's about hand-eye coordination, planning, average skill, average intelligence coupled w/ knoweldge and decision making skills. Attitude is everything !

Generalizations are just say, generalizations-not hard & fast rules. Here are some of my observations from dual given at all levels:

1. Woman, especially younger woman, have a better “touch” with the plane than guys. They learn to use the trim faster, can keep the ball in the center more quickly and are not ham handed.

2. In general, many women don’t have a strong background with electrical, oil, viscosity and applied physics. The book portion takes more effort for them (they do get it). In general, guys have had “toys” (adult & kids) and can apply principles of physics more quickly (gyroscopic precession, viscosity, torque etc.). At the end of the game there is no difference.

3. Young woman often more challenged to make a decision and commit to it (i.e. what field do land in?). It is a learned skill.

4. Some young men commit to a plan and have a hard time adjusting it (constant evaluation) when the decision IS NOT the best one.

5. Men that work manual labor jobs tend to be heavy handed; they are happy to fly around out of trim and consequently take a bit longer to master the fundamentals (S&L, climb, decent & turns). In turn the can apply the physics (private pilot) of flight and instruments, weather quickly.

6. Doctors can be a pain in the butt to teach to fly: How do you teach a man who already knows everything? I have taught several. No doctor has ever been my best student; book work or the physical act of flying.

7. Engineers (my current student DOES NOT fall into this category) often focus on small details; don’t think about the future if the plan didn’t happen according to expectations. They also have a hard time accepting some items and want to offer corrections constantly. My last private pilot fit this category to a “T”-he identified himself as a "research scientist & engineer". I was his 4th instructor in 40 hours and he had never soloed (& never will).

8. Teenage boys like to fly-they hate to study. I have had to spell out: We WILL NOT fly unless you are prepared to answer these questions etc.

9. Education has little to do w/ gaining private pilot certificate. My three best students have all been the least educated (but all were small business owners). They flew the best, had the ability to constantly evaluate (see the big picture) and grasped concepts quickly.

10. I can guess what kind of instrument student someone will be by riding in a car and traffic and observe their planning etc.

11. Pilots today are “Children of the Magenta Line”. They lack the ability to have good SA outside of the FMS/moving map etc. When the automation goes away can you figure out where you are? Planes like the Cirrus (decked out RV?) have enough automation that they never cement some fundamentals that others honed in their first 200-1000 hours. Just look at the Cirrus accident statistics; most have cited lack of fundamental control skills as a contributing factor. The autopilot should never be a substitute for skill; it is a workload reduction tool. If your flight hinges on the autopilot you probably should not be going.
 
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#11 is 100% correct.
I actually had a pilot tell me, during an IPC, that he could not look at a chart without the use of an autopilot. In a 182 no less, one of the most stable planes out there. At least he had a plan: he said that if the autopilot failed he would declare an emergency and have ATC read the chart info to him.
 
I was a nationally ranked ultramarathon runner when I started my flight training in NM.
My resting heart rate was 38 at the time.

I remember getting very nauseous immediately following my first 10 hours. Didn't lose it, but came very close.:eek:
 
Like many, I've been involved in athletics my whole life. Our typical team motto was "we might be small but were slow too!" One can't condition the body without conditioning the mind. It takes concentration, persistence, subject knowledge, repetition etc... To become both a skilled pilot and athletic. Do the correlate? Sure but of both mind and body not just body.
 
athletics

My instructor said motercycle riders made better pilots, I was not riding when I was taking flight lessons.
 
Interesting discussion

This is an interesting thread, primarily because it's fun to reflect on whether everyone's intuition rings true with my own experience.

I think folks who study "Human Factors Engineering" point to things like visual acuity (speed of focus, motion tracking), fine motor skills, and the ability to gauge the motion of objects through time and space as key elements in skillfully flying fighter aircraft. I'm sure the same attributes apply to us lowly Experimental GA pilots as well.

I don't consider myself an exceptionally skilled pilot, but my progression of experience hits on an interesting combination of topics already covered here. In chronological order over my lifetime, it goes something like this: Legos, wrench turning, R/C (cars, gliders, airplanes, helicopters), cars, mountain bikes, car racing, motorcycles, engineering, gliders, taildraggers, IFR, RVs, Stearmans (Stearmen?).

I think I've borrowed from experience at each step, and somehow, all of these experiences have crafted the ways I react to specfic situations. For example, knowing how to effectively use brakes on a high performance motorcycle directly translates to balancing the use of elevator and brakes in slowing a taildragger in a short field situation. Learning pitch control in a glider directly affects how one reacts in the first instant after a strong, unexpected downdraft in an RV on short final.

I also think a good sense of mechanical things is important aspect of flying an airplane, both in normal operations and in knowing the difference between an anomoly and an emergency.

I'm not sure to take away from this, but it does seem beneficial for pilots to have had a variety of experiences in mastering "kinesthetic" control.

Keep the conversation going!

Cheers,

Matthew
 
As an instructor; both GA and Part 121, I see zero correlation between athleticism and non-athleticism. Men & women are on "about" equal footing; men learn some things more quickly & vice versa. Education also plays little into the equation at the private pilot level.

It's about hand-eye coordination, planning, average skill, average intelligence coupled w/ knoweldge and decision making skills. Attitude is everything !

Generalizations are just say, generalizations-not hard & fast rules. Here are some of my observations from dual given at all levels:

1. Woman, especially younger woman, have a better ?touch? with the plane than guys. They learn to use the trim faster, can keep the ball in the center more quickly and are not ham handed.

2. In general, many women don?t have a strong background with electrical, oil, viscosity and applied physics. The book portion takes more effort for them (they do get it). In general, guys have had ?toys? (adult & kids) and can apply principles of physics more quickly (gyroscopic precession, viscosity, torque etc.). At the end of the game there is no difference.

3. Young woman often more challenged to make a decision and commit to it (i.e. what field do land in?). It is a learned skill.

4. Some young men commit to a plan and have a hard time adjusting it (constant evaluation) when the decision IS NOT the best one.

5. Men that work manual labor jobs tend to be heavy handed; they are happy to fly around out of trim and consequently take a bit longer to master the fundamentals (S&L, climb, decent & turns). In turn the can apply the physics (private pilot) of flight and instruments, weather quickly.

6. Doctors can be a pain in the butt to teach to fly: How do you teach a man who already knows everything? I have taught several. No doctor has ever been my best student; book work or the physical act of flying.

7. Engineers (my current student DOES NOT fall into this category) often focus on small details; don?t think about the future if the plan didn?t happen according to expectations. They also have a hard time accepting some items and want to offer corrections constantly. My last private pilot fit this category to a ?T?-he identified himself as a "research scientist & engineer". I was his 4th instructor in 40 hours and he had never soloed (& never will).

8. Teenage boys like to fly-they hate to study. I have had to spell out: We WILL NOT fly unless you are prepared to answer these questions etc.

9. Education has little to do w/ gaining private pilot certificate. My three best students have all been the least educated (but all were small business owners). They flew the best, had the ability to constantly evaluate (see the big picture) and grasped concepts quickly.

10. I can guess what kind of instrument student someone will be by riding in a car and traffic and observe their planning etc.

11. Pilots today are ?Children of the Magenta Line?. They lack the ability to have good SA outside of the FMS/moving map etc. When the automation goes away can you figure out where you are? Planes like the Cirrus (decked out RV?) have enough automation that they never cement some fundamentals that others honed in their first 200-1000 hours. Just look at the Cirrus accident statistics; most have cited lack of fundamental control skills as a contributing factor. The autopilot should never be a substitute for skill; it is a workload reduction tool. If your flight hinges on the autopilot you probably should not be going.

My observations over 45 years of flying and instructing pretty much agree with Chris on all of his points here. Ditto on Dan J's remarks about glider training.
 
easy learning pilot types

This is an interesting thread, primarily because it's fun to reflect on whether everyone's intuition rings true with my own experience.

I think folks who study "Human Factors Engineering" point to things like visual acuity (speed of focus, motion tracking), fine motor skills, and the ability to gauge the motion of objects through time and space as key elements in skillfully flying fighter aircraft. I'm sure the same attributes apply to us lowly Experimental GA pilots as well.

I don't consider myself an exceptionally skilled pilot, but my progression of experience hits on an interesting combination of topics already covered here. In chronological order over my lifetime, it goes something like this: Legos, wrench turning, R/C (cars, gliders, airplanes, helicopters), cars, mountain bikes, car racing, motorcycles, engineering, gliders, taildraggers, IFR, RVs, Stearmans (Stearmen?).

I think I've borrowed from experience at each step, and somehow, all of these experiences have crafted the ways I react to specfic situations. For example, knowing how to effectively use brakes on a high performance motorcycle directly translates to balancing the use of elevator and brakes in slowing a taildragger in a short field situation. Learning pitch control in a glider directly affects how one reacts in the first instant after a strong, unexpected downdraft in an RV on short final.

I also think a good sense of mechanical things is important aspect of flying an airplane, both in normal operations and in knowing the difference between an anomoly and an emergency.

I'm not sure to take away from this, but it does seem beneficial for pilots to have had a variety of experiences in mastering "kinesthetic" control.

Keep the conversation going!

Cheers,

Matthew

Many quick learning pilots that I have known are like Matthew above.
On another hand, my son is not athletic, has some of the above experience and has high skill sets in gaming. This kid picked up flying like it was just plain common sense and he had been doing it his whole life. A true natural. These types are flying our multi million dollar military UAV's
 
30 years ago the Navy noticed that the Marines were performing better in flight school then the Navy students. There was a lot of discussion at that time about why. Some thought it was because the Marine OCS process was actually 8 months long including the basic school verses 10 weeks for the Navy. In the end however they decided the Marines were recruiting using more of a total man concept. They looked at all of a candidates achievements and looked for a balance in academics and other activities including sports. The also required much higher physical fitness standards. The Navy focused much more on academic performance and what a applicants degree area was. They liked engineers with high GPA's. They changed their recruiting practices as a result.

George
 
The wife

We used to have a theory that the best pilot trainees were Music majors: they have good hands and a fast crosscheck.

I'm gonna have to tell the wife that one. Maybe it'll convince her to start taking lessons.:)

The very few hours I have in rotorcraft, the instructor asked me if I had ever operated heavy equipment, like excavators (I had). He had observed that people with heavy equipment experience found it easier to learn hovering, which came easy to me. The same might be true for video gamers, I suppose, but they don't normally get the physical feedback like you do in an excavator.
 
I'm gonna have to tell the wife that one. Maybe it'll convince her to start taking lessons.:)

The very few hours I have in rotorcraft, the instructor asked me if I had ever operated heavy equipment, like excavators (I had). He had observed that people with heavy equipment experience found it easier to learn hovering, which came easy to me. The same might be true for video gamers, I suppose, but they don't normally get the physical feedback like you do in an excavator.

I have had a few non-pilots in my airplane that operated excavating equipment and I've always found those guys to be naturally good sticks without exception.
 
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