Round Gauges for backup

Looking to install backup (round gauges) of airspeed and altimeter. Have the sky view, so looking to place them in the empty part of the center panel. First question, any recommendations on brand? Looked in spruce.... Any other suppliers for the smaller type non STC'd. Second... Would a "t" connection work for pitot supply line? Looking for a "y" connection but can't find any.

Thanks.

I installed a UMA ASI and Falcon Altimeter, both 2 1/4". Can't recommend either one as I haven't used them yet. They weren't that expensive so they probably aren't great quality either, but should be OK as backups. I used Tee's as shown. Bought an extra static kit from Vans which had all the right pieces. I ran the static line down the right hand side under the passenger seat to avoid the tunnel.

Like most things you get what you pay for and aircraft instruments are no different.

Go with United if a quality instrument is your priority.

I too want backup airspeed and altimeter steam gauges. While at Oshkosh this year, spoke with Sharon the UMA instruments representative. I was pleased to fund out in addition to having reasonably priced gauges, they will also custom silk screen the airspeed indicator?s range markings to your specifications for a VERY reasonable extra fee.

Some other suppliers told me they will place colored vinyl tape on the airspeed instrument as range markings, but I would prefer a quality silkscreen and will likely go with UMA for my backup gauges.

KALEWIS said:

Would a "t" connection work for pitot supply line? Looking for a "y" connection but can't find any.

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SteinAir and several other places sells them.

John-G said:

Some other suppliers told me they will place colored vinyl tape on the airspeed instrument as range markings, but I would prefer a quality silkscreen and will likely go with UMA for my backup gauges.

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That's the way to go. I used the vinyl tape on mine (looks OK), but only because I didn't know about the silkscreen option at the time. Took care to re-seal the casing, but time will tell whether that was successful. I agree that for a simple day VFR aircraft, there's no compelling reason to install extra backup dials when you can just look out the window. However, they still provide an extra measure of redundancy, and they fill up that blank bit of panel quite nicely.

N8RV said:

I don't want to talk you out of anything, but do you really need them? Unless you're planning to fly IFR or at night, are they really necessary?

I ask because many years ago, when I was planning the panel, I didn't have a whole lot of faith in the Dynon units I was going to use for my primary displays, and just assumed that having analog backups was the smart move. Perhaps it was, I'll never know. What I do know is, I never look at them. My Dynons have functioned flawlessly from Day One, and since I don't fly at night or IFR, the added complexity of the plumbing was really unnecessary.

I would think that for a day VFR pilot/plane, backup round gauges are really unnecessary these days.

Just a thought if you haven't yet cut the panel.

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My thoughts too. I left out the round gauges and haven't missed them for 5 years last month.

Another plumbing option to the "T" and "Y" is the "Male Run T".
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=29527&catid=676
Joe Gores

Just to help the thought process...

I bought my backup steam gauges from Vans. At the time, they were to accompany a Dynon D-10A. After building for a "few" more years, the Skyview came along and that was my choice. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to lay them out on my panel. I had three gauges: ASI, ALT, and Trutrack AP. I didn't think I had enough room to orient them vertically (3.25 gauges). After scratching my head forever, I finally decided that three gauges might be my problem, so I added a fourth: VSI. After I cut my hole for the Skyview, I mirrored the Skyview layout for the four gauges on the other side of the radio stack. If I ever feel the need, I can cut a rectangular hole where the four gauges are and install another Skyview.
http://www.aclog.com/rv-9a/images/Firewall%20Forward/49d256b4070631b6cffac9632e72752610337_IMG_0812.jpg

http://www.aclog.com/rv-9a/images/Firewall%20Forward/e8cdbc4a5c3b1321b08c0514bbf40170794_IMG_0459.jpg

In an RV-12, I don't think I'd bother with a backup ASI or altimeter. Although I've never flown in a -12 yet, I'd bet it is much easier to judge airspeed for landing by power setting, and feel and sound of the aircraft in case the EFIS fails, than one of the fast tailwheel RVs. Being a nosewheel airplane would also be a big help in landing without a functioning airspeed display.

Now in a fast tailwheel RV, I'd definitely want at least a backup airspeed steam gauge. I can judge height and getting to a pattern altitude just fine with the good old "Mark-I" eyeballs, but slowing these planes down, and holding the airspeed to that narrow happy range for a smooth landing just by power settings, and feel and sounds is a bit more difficult.

A standalone AOA indicator is an outstanding option for an "airspeedless" panel. Matter of fact, it is the best primary indicator to use for landing even if the airspeed indicator is working properly. Once you have learned to use AOA for maximizing landing performance you will rarely look at the airspeed indicator.

Three small backups ...

...all 2 1/4" ... UMA altimeter, Vans airspeed, and a decent quality but lesser cost whiskey compass whose mfgr I can't recall at the moment. Very little panel space - or cash - required.

I've got the "old system" of D-180 and D-100. I suffer from Skyview envy, but at least I have an EFIS backup!

I won't try to dissuade you from your plan and to get the Dynon D1 instead, because your plane should reflect your own choices. But remember, you will need to tee into your static line back in the tailcone and bring a new static line forward to your altimeter. Right now your static line stays entirely in the tailcone going only to the ADAHRS back there.

My round gauges

Being an old school (and old, too) engineer who believes that electronics will fail, probably at the worst time, I installed airspeed, altimeter and a ball as soon as 143WM got her pink ticket. Helps my co-pilot a lot too, since the D-180 is hard to see from over there. There's no need for much extra plumbing; I bought T-fittings and 8 feet of static line from Steinair, replaced the white plastic fittings at the back of the D-180 with ones from Steinair, capped one leg of the T and ran the other to my new gauges. Yes there's a difference between my cheap gauges and the D-180, but I'm not convinced which is wrong.

Wayne 120241/143WM

You know, a Garmin 495/6 or AERA has a page that simulates even more than your backup gauges and gives you a backup GPS. Just add a ball-in-tube slip/skid.

Bill_H said:

I won't try to dissuade you from your plan and to get the Dynon D1 instead, because your plane should reflect your own choices.

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I like the look and feel of the old-fashioned round gauges, but if I was doing it again I'd also be taking a close look at the D1. It's a very useful gadget. The compass in my panel is primarily to satisfy a legal requirement over here, and the Elgin clock is just a bit of useful nostalgia. I like the idea that it had a previous history in some military aircraft and hasn't been discarded. That's the nice thing about building your own aircraft. Your plane, your choice.

Bill_H said:

You know, a Garmin 495/6 or AERA has a page that simulates even more than your backup gauges and gives you a backup GPS. Just add a ball-in-tube slip/skid.

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Kyle already has an iFly 720 that provides a virtual panel - I thought very much along the same lines he did on the topic of redundancy and decided that my bigger risk was getting lost if I lost the SkyView. The iFly seemed like a good choice for providing both features.

First - as said by many - and I agree - no backup is needed for VFR flying. As I have also said - more times than I want to - in my transition training with Mike Seager, he forced me to fly circuits with the Skyview turned off - and it was No Problem!

I think everyone should practice this. The RV-12 is especially suited for this, since it makes a power off approach. Pull the power to Idle abeam the touchdown point, maintain altitude (using visual reference to the airplane's Attitude) allowing the speed to bleed off to about 60, and fly the approach.

I think the key ingredient is something called "Sight Picture." It varies a lot between airplanes, but once you fly a particular airplane for a while, you need to get that image Locked In.

Dave has the right idea, though, a virtual something that is functional, but not necessarily sexy (who woulda thunk that steam gages are being regarded as sexy?)

I was gonna buy the new Dynon D1 Pocket Panel as my backup. It's on sale for $1200. But, instead, I (being a cheap pilot), bought the iFly 520. It's new, just introduced at Oshkosh, and available for $390. It has a Virtual Panel. Yesterday, I gave it a good workout, and it works as advertised. The GPS Nav stuff and (lots) of other goodies - I view as extras and not something I really plan to use.

So why, Bob, if you think it can be flown VFR without anything, did you spring for the iFly. Well, I view the iFly as an emergency "Get-Me-Home" gadget (still probably not needed.)

My Dynon has not been trouble-free - two Main units and 3 ADAHRS later, I say. When my first Main Unit went, it was fine during engine start, the buttons started acting a little "strange" during taxi-out. By the time I was doing my run-up, I could not get the PFD screen to come up, and then it began endlessly re-booting. So I taxied back to the hangar and called Dynon - They're on my Speed Dial.

I had a new unit the next day, but seeing how fast it went Toes-Up, my good friend (?) Tony T. asked me how much I would pay him to fly a new unit up to Pt. Roberts if it had gone south wjile I was up there. Or some other remote place.

I do believe in an extreme situation of being AOG in some back-water locale, I could fly the airplane home - or at least to a less back-water place with a bed and a bar, to await the UPS truck from Dynon. The RV-12 - like many GA airplanes - is even easier to take-off without any instruments than to land. Accelerate, raise the nose to take-off attitude, and let the airplane fly itself off.

The iFly would mostly allow me to set the power better and fly a certain Airspeed, and give me some sort of Altitude - I like to fly with ATC, and that would keep them happier. Neither can be really judged accurately "by the seat of the pants."

Bob Bogash
N737G

Not what I said...

Roberto,

What I said (in jest) was to buy some backup, because it would be cheaper than what I would charge to fly a replacement SV up to Pt. Roberts or some other isolated spot. And that would be a whole lot cheaper than what Kenmore Air would charge, I am sure.

Sorry for the thread drift here but I note that the guys with the early panels have less incentive to put in back-up gauges or GPS. Those panels had back-up with the 396/496, separate transponder, and with the dual display option, a backup EFIS with airspeed and altitude. However you do lose the compass on the D100, and the autopilot too, if the D180 goes offline.

I too have SV envy, but not really .


Tony