Van's Air Force
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FP Catto Vs CS WW & angle head 200HP
- Thread starter bret
- Start date
With 200 hp on an RV-7, climb is never going to be a problem.
If you want C/S, fine, no problem. Do you NEED it? Absolutely not!
I've been flying my -6 out of my 1500' strip in Texas for quite a number of years. And I have considerably less hp than you.
Never had a problem at home or at Leadville, CO. with 14,000' DA.
If you want C/S, fine, no problem. Do you NEED it? Absolutely not!
I've been flying my -6 out of my 1500' strip in Texas for quite a number of years. And I have considerably less hp than you.
Never had a problem at home or at Leadville, CO. with 14,000' DA.
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Carl Froehlich
Well Known Member
On my first plane (RV-8A) I started off with a FP Sensenich prop for the same reasons you list, less weight and less money.
300 hours of flying and I knew the plane was not doing all it could do. I replaced the FP prop with a Hartzell BA CS prop. To say the upgrade was worthwhile fails to capture the transformation of this plane into a stellar performer. I consider starting off with a FP prop the one major mistake I made in my first build.
Bottom line - the speed range of the RV means that no FP prop will meet the planes capabilities across the operation envelope. You must overlay what you want the plane to do. If you want a fun airplane to do everything well then it make little difference what prop you put on it as you will always out climb and out cruise the spam cans. For me maximum efficiency in cross country cruise is the overriding factor.
Carl
300 hours of flying and I knew the plane was not doing all it could do. I replaced the FP prop with a Hartzell BA CS prop. To say the upgrade was worthwhile fails to capture the transformation of this plane into a stellar performer. I consider starting off with a FP prop the one major mistake I made in my first build.
Bottom line - the speed range of the RV means that no FP prop will meet the planes capabilities across the operation envelope. You must overlay what you want the plane to do. If you want a fun airplane to do everything well then it make little difference what prop you put on it as you will always out climb and out cruise the spam cans. For me maximum efficiency in cross country cruise is the overriding factor.
Carl
The question to ask regarding getting good all around perf. with an RV equipped with a fixed pitch prop, is "Are you comfortable running the engine at high RPM's for extended periods of time?" (~2600- 2650 in cruise)
If you are, then you can get climb and cruise perf. that is very similar (but not quite as good with both) as you would with a const. speed.
If you are not, then you will end up with a course pitch prop that is not to great for climb or high altitude cruise, but would still give you good cruise #'s at lower altitudes with moderate RPM's.
If you are, then you can get climb and cruise perf. that is very similar (but not quite as good with both) as you would with a const. speed.
If you are not, then you will end up with a course pitch prop that is not to great for climb or high altitude cruise, but would still give you good cruise #'s at lower altitudes with moderate RPM's.
Carl Froehlich
Well Known Member
Not to start any flames but yes.
If your question is what is the best overall FP prop for an RV, then I'll leave that to others. My note was simply to share my experience comparing FP versus CS props on the same plane.
Carl
Not in my opinion. The Catto will fly rings around the Sensenich. Besides being quieter and smoother.
GalinHdz
Well Known Member
My airplane started with a 2B Sensenich FP (1,000hrs) and now has a 3B CATTO FP (50hrs). At least in my particular case the CATTO is quieter, smoother, "sexier" with a very slight increase in both climb and cruise. So I have to agree that the CATTO flies rings around the Sensenich.
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LifeofReiley
Well Known Member
Bret,
Constant speed props have there place in aviation for sure. In my 24 yrs in the RV world, I've never owed one. Maintenance cost alone sent me to the FP. (Maint Cost: Zero, Ziltch, Nada, 0.00) YMMV. There are may FP to choose from out there. My last was a Catto. If you have the bucks and like to throw them at an airplane then the constant speed prop is for you.
Constant speed props have there place in aviation for sure. In my 24 yrs in the RV world, I've never owed one. Maintenance cost alone sent me to the FP. (Maint Cost: Zero, Ziltch, Nada, 0.00) YMMV. There are may FP to choose from out there. My last was a Catto. If you have the bucks and like to throw them at an airplane then the constant speed prop is for you.
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bret
Well Known Member
I am not one with $ to throw around, hence the first post, just looking to get up in the air before age grounds me, seen too many post of folks building and never flown because of medical issues, another thread, back to props, I do not need the short take off, if I can get at least 1500 FPM ill be a happy camper, also, I have read somewhere that a FP will have a higher top speed if pitched correctly 80" P ?
LifeofReiley
Well Known Member
Bret... with the 200 HP and FP you will be at 2000 FPM EASY!!!
bret
Well Known Member
Decisions Decisions, will I need to cut down a prop that ran on a Mooney? too long?
72" should be fine. Van has a 74" available but not sure how many use it.
Carl Froehlich
Well Known Member
If the drivers are to save both money and weight, then opt for the parallel valve IO-360 with the Hartzell BA prop and enjoy the performance.
Carl
Carl
A McCauley? Big fat operating limitation right where you would like to be on approach.
How much is a new Catto with all the options? A new Hartzell is $7495 at Vans.
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grubbat
Well Known Member
Prop
Bret, this is a tough one. Having had both, and looking at your wants, I would say Catto will do the job. Its light, smooth, and cost efficient. I would expect Catto to be about 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost of a CS, all things considered (prop, governor, ect.)
The CS option gives you nice acceleration, custom cruise settings, maybe more CG margin, and a bit more margin when doing acro. (I've heard the CS can help if you goof up a maneuver in these clean RV's.)
I know its a tough decision, but either one will work. It's these type decisions that really made building almost come to a standstill for me. Shooting rivets and following steps in the plans were a breeze compared to stuff like this.
Good luck!
cj
Bret, this is a tough one. Having had both, and looking at your wants, I would say Catto will do the job. Its light, smooth, and cost efficient. I would expect Catto to be about 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost of a CS, all things considered (prop, governor, ect.)
The CS option gives you nice acceleration, custom cruise settings, maybe more CG margin, and a bit more margin when doing acro. (I've heard the CS can help if you goof up a maneuver in these clean RV's.)
I know its a tough decision, but either one will work. It's these type decisions that really made building almost come to a standstill for me. Shooting rivets and following steps in the plans were a breeze compared to stuff like this.
Good luck!
cj
rightrudder
Well Known Member
Bret, this price info may be a little out of date (8/14), but for a 2-blade Catto, nickel leading edges, a very nice Saber prop extension, crush ring, all hardware, tax and shipping, I paid about $3800.
Prop itself was $2450 (nickel LE's extra), extension was $525. All the components were supplied by Catto and shipped together, so a very simple proposition. Beautiful craftsmanship, and you get to pick your paint scheme (included in price). Mine is silver with red & black trim, to match the scooter. Plus, all the Catto folks are super nice to deal with.
Prop itself was $2450 (nickel LE's extra), extension was $525. All the components were supplied by Catto and shipped together, so a very simple proposition. Beautiful craftsmanship, and you get to pick your paint scheme (included in price). Mine is silver with red & black trim, to match the scooter.
Plus, all the Catto folks are super nice to deal with.
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Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
1. Do NOT cut down a prop if you're not a prop shop. Lotsa possibilities for resonance and prop failure.
2. Don't forget that a fixed pitch prop will increase landing roll and shallow out the approach.
Ed
2. Don't forget that a fixed pitch prop will increase landing roll and shallow out the approach.
Ed
meloosifah
Well Known Member
I went through this for a 180hp IO360...Catto vs Hartzell. I was all set on Catto, figuring weight and cost savings would make up for versatility. Then I got a great deal on a CS with the non-BA blades and will be able to have this prop with all the associated costs cheaper than the Catto.
The problem is, it seems that a lot of folks have gone from Sensenich to Hartzell but I have yet to hear of anyone swapping between Catto and CS. I would love to pick the brain of someone who did that.
Of course I also almost never hear of someone who went from CS to FP of any type.
The problem is, it seems that a lot of folks have gone from Sensenich to Hartzell but I have yet to hear of anyone swapping between Catto and CS. I would love to pick the brain of someone who did that.
Of course I also almost never hear of someone who went from CS to FP of any type.
