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  #71  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:50 AM
Chillibob Chillibob is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
Posts: 9
Default Clarification on Center Section Rear Spar Attachment

RVBob,

Glad to know someone else in addition to David is still working on a RV-3B. Did you use the same single row of rivets to attach the 1.75" x 3/16" bar as the plans called for for the 1.25" bar? Any interferences as a result of the extra width?

Chillibob
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  #72  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:35 AM
JohnTod JohnTod is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Hemet, CA
Posts: 2
Default New to the forum with a used RV-3

Gentleman,
I just bought an RV-3 on eBay. It's complete with only some parts missing. the previous owner started repairs and the spar mod. I may need some of the original plans (control stick and flap controls) for the early aircraft. Mine is serial #454. I have the thumb drive Vans sells but it covers the "B" model mostly. Is there a good sorce for the early plans? Thanks.
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  #73  
Old 04-16-2020, 06:43 PM
Chillibob Chillibob is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
Posts: 9
Default RV-3 Plans - 'Clarifications'

JohnTod,
I started building from plans number 489 and still have the old plans so if you have any questions about the old plans let me know. My wings started in 1977 and my fuselage was started around 1984. Just retired recently so I am trying to finish the project. Having fun but a severe challenge with so may changes.

Bob (Chillibob)
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  #74  
Old 08-24-2020, 02:46 AM
Lufthans's Avatar
Lufthans Lufthans is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Posts: 170
Default Fuselage rivet spacing and double rivet line at F-305?

Russell kindly pointed out that my bought aircraft only has one rivet line at the F-305 bulkhead, where it should have two. And that the rivets along the stiffeners on the rear fuse seemed to have the wrong spacing.

So I got out my plans, and am confused.

My plans set is dated 11-25-1984, and when I compare sheets 21 and 22 (forward and rear fuselage) against sheet 23 (Fuselage skins and rivets), things don't seem to add up. See attachments

(My plane seems to have been built according to sheets 21 and 22, by the way)

Anyone who can shed light on this one? Thanks!







P.S. I have been looking at photos of RV-3's and have found both versions to exist. Although the double rivet line with 1-1/4" rivet spacing seems to be in the majority. Zooming in on this photo though shows what seems to be a single rivet line, and 1" rivet spacing along the bottom edge of the aft fuselage. https://imgbb.com/VWBJb1R ( https://i.ibb.co/8D8NGCq/CCTG-and-MIRV.jpg)
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Hans Teijgeler
Hilversum, The Netherlands


Resurrecting an RV-3B
PH-BRR Bowers Fly Baby; Imported and upgraded
PH-MGA Jodel DR1050; Built, with Subaru EJ25
PH-SUM RV-4; Imported and upgraded. Sold my share :-(
PH-EIL RV-4; Imported and upgraded for friend. Sadly crashed
PH-ERD Robin DR300; Built with Subaru EZ30 for friend.

Last edited by Lufthans : 08-24-2020 at 08:46 AM.
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  #75  
Old 08-24-2020, 09:05 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,069
Default

Here is how I did my plane there. The forward row of rivets is for the skin to skin joint, just the skins, while the aft row is for both the skins to the bulkhead.

I used -3 rivets at 1" spacing, I think, for all the side skin joints, but as you can see from the photo, I also glued the joints.



The wooden parts are work platforms so that I can work inside. They remove easily.

Dave
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  #76  
Old 08-24-2020, 10:09 AM
HFS HFS is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lemoore, CA
Posts: 384
Default Plans Clarification

Van in his "formative" years quite often forgot (neglected) to update all drawings as progressive refinements were made. Case in point - If you do a (close) check for the spacing for the fuel tank attach holes you will find at least 3 different "offerings" - in my case I called a friend who had QB wings and asked him what his spacing was. IIRC - it was choice #2 (right in the middle), so that is what I used.

In your particular case I would refer you to the builder's manual (which you may or may not have) that states on Page 8-11 Fuselage the following: "You will notice from DWG 23 that nearly all lap joints of skins fore-to-aft use double rows of rivets. This offers very strong joints through the use of small rivets moderately spaced."

I have built an early -4, a Harmon Rocket (same plans basically), and now a -3B but from the earlier plans (S/N 11226 - 1993), so I am quite familiar with the vagaries of Van's plans set. What I have always done to "break the tie" among differing plans specs, is to evaluate them and then use the one that offers the most effective structural option - read "most rivets".

I am not familiar with any airframes built before the drawing set we have (11-25/28-1984), so I can't speak to the "correctness" of your build - but it wouldn't surprise me if yours was built according to the plans in effect at that time.

However, having said that, my plans don't show any revisions on DRG 23 that might indicate an earlier single row rivet pattern.

YMMV

HFS
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  #77  
Old 08-24-2020, 11:27 AM
FinnFlyer FinnFlyer is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bell, FL
Posts: 582
Default Weak area

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufthans View Post
Russell kindly pointed out that my bought aircraft only has one rivet line at the F-305 bulkhead, where it should have two. And that the rivets along the stiffeners on the rear fuse seemed to have the wrong spacing.

So I got out my plans, and am confused.

My plans set is dated 11-25-1984, and when I compare sheets 21 and 22 (forward and rear fuselage) against sheet 23 (Fuselage skins and rivets), things don't seem to add up. See attachments

(My plane seems to have been built according to sheets 21 and 22, by the way)

Anyone who can shed light on this one? Thanks!

P.S. I have been looking at photos of RV-3's and have found both versions to exist. Although the double rivet line with 1-1/4" rivet spacing seems to be in the majority. Zooming in on this photo though shows what seems to be a single rivet line, and 1" rivet spacing along the bottom edge of the aft fuselage. https://imgbb.com/VWBJb1R ( https://i.ibb.co/8D8NGCq/CCTG-and-MIRV.jpg)
Just looked at both my RV-3's. Neither have the forward skin overlap and rivet line.

On the crashed RV-3, the forward skins tore of off the rivets. So one could consider this a weak area (longerons also sheared at that point). I my case it probably saved my skin because the forward part with the engine fuselage tank tore off and landed some 20 feet ahead and caught fire. I was left hanging uo-side-down in the harness with wings wrapped around trees.

Am I going to rebuild my flying RV-3B because of that? No.

I guess one could drill out the existing rivets, insert a skin strip and add the 2nd rivet line. But, drilling out the existing rivets could weaken the skins and bulkhead flange. I guess one could add a third rivet line behind the bulkhead.

Finn
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  #78  
Old 08-24-2020, 04:27 PM
Lufthans's Avatar
Lufthans Lufthans is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Posts: 170
Default

Thanks guys.

So basically, my plane is not the result of a major F-up, but merely outdated. I can live with that.

So.... back it is to making all the systems work again, safely this time.

(And Finn, that sounds like a VERY scary story. Have you written it down somewhere?)
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Hans Teijgeler
Hilversum, The Netherlands


Resurrecting an RV-3B
PH-BRR Bowers Fly Baby; Imported and upgraded
PH-MGA Jodel DR1050; Built, with Subaru EJ25
PH-SUM RV-4; Imported and upgraded. Sold my share :-(
PH-EIL RV-4; Imported and upgraded for friend. Sadly crashed
PH-ERD Robin DR300; Built with Subaru EZ30 for friend.
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  #79  
Old 08-25-2020, 02:38 AM
RussellT RussellT is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Albany Western Australia
Posts: 96
Default

Hans, this is interesting and I went back to look at mine in more detail. I have the preview only build manual drawings, the full size construction plans as well the USB version, all showing differences but essentially the same as what you found. The USB and builders manual preview show AN426 AD4-4 single line however that size rivet is not shown on the full size drawing #21 instead a notation to see #23 section A-A which then shows double row of AN 426 AD3 rivets. I used the section A-A full size detail on sheet #23 depiction for my build.
I would be curious to know if your plans show the details of section A-A on sheet #23 along with the note to see such on sheet #21?
Anyway I am sure yours is just fine as it is and I look forward to seeing you tidying it up.

Russell
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  #80  
Old 08-25-2020, 09:01 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,069
Default

Here's the detail that Russell is referring to:



For the benefit of anyone following the thread and possibly having a different version of the plans. This was from my plans, dated 11-25-84. There is a revision incorporated, R1, dated 5/00, which did not affect this area.

Dave
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