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RV-8 N800KE - Fatal accident

stalls

the issue that I find very upsetting in the almost total lack of mention of MINIMUM ALTITUDE LOSS. The FAA gibberish refers to the aircraft handbook, which in the case of the 150series and 172 simply says lower the nose to the horizon. A unofficial 150 book states minimum loss of altitude, ZERO loss is better.
 
1: MAINTAIN FLYING SPEED....

as for the approach to stall **** from the FAA now, I don't care what's on the PTS you're still going to learn full stalls if I teach you. you will know what you need to do to pass the test, but you will also know what to do to survive in the real world.

I think this whole idea of keeping away from the edges of the envelop is stupid. learn to fly your aircraft to the edge, so when you accidentally get there its not a surprise.

THANK YOU!!! Everyone should go spend some time in their airplane with Bob...or someone who will teach you like he does!

We have high-performance aircraft. They get down the road in a hurry which means things also happen in a hurry. To be the best pilot of your amazing craft, you need to stay WAY ahead of the airplane. You can quickly get yourself into situations you are not familiar with and have to act quickly to get back to "normal". If you have seen the abnormal already which means exploring the envelope to the edges of "normal" flight, you won't be as surprised when you encounter that edge when you were not expecting it. The airplanes we fly are incredibly well-designed and can take a lot of envelope exploring without getting into a lot of trouble. If you are not comfortable exploring the edges yourself, take Bob....or another qualified instructor with you to keep you from going too far over the edge. Get comfortable with The Edges.

Even normal things. When was the last time you practiced engine out approach using your emergency check list (you DO have an emergency check list, don't you?). Do you know how to tell what field you can get to by where it sits on your canopy or wing? Do you know The Big Six (first 6 things on your Emergency Checklist) without looking them up? Mine sit on an inside sleeve of my knee board and simply removing whatever else is on it brings it up. LARGE TEXT. Some may think this is getting too much back to basics but when the Music Stops, it is all basics.

When I was getting my SCUBA certification, one of the things they do is throw all your equipment into the bottom of the pool and have you go down, put everything on and wait for them. There is a specific sequence of things you need to do. Basic things. Then they come down and start pulling things off: they turn your air off; pull your regulator out of your mouth; pull your goggles off; unbuckle your weight belt. Your job is to calmly repair their damage knowing the BASICS of what you need to do and when. (My biggest problem was just as I got everything back together they would undo everything again and I started laughing!:D) The purpose is to establishing a confidence that when things go to pieces at 35 meters, you have a plan of BASIC things to do to get safely back to the surface.

Flying is no different. I am out at least once a month practicing my emergency procedures. I visually know if I am likely going to make THAT particular field because I've practiced it before. If something should happen in the Real World, I have seen this before and start my familiar routine. Basics. None of us is such a good pilot we can ignore them. 1) MAINTAIN FLYING SPEED; BEST RATE OF DESCENT 85; ADJUST TRIM 2) MIXTURE FULL RICH; 3) THROTTLE FULL FORWARD; 4)......
 
the quick answer is, they never had the data to program a full stall into the sim. now that the FAA is requiring full stalls in transport cat aircraft the manufactures and the sim manufactures had to do the full stalls in the aircraft and collect the data to program the sims, and we are now beating the **** out of the sims doing it. the first time I did it in the bus it was eye opening to say the least.

as for the approach to stall **** from the FAA now, I don't care whats on the PTS your still going to learn full stalls if I teach you. you will know what you need to do to pass the test, but you will also know what to do to survive in the real world.

I think this whole idea of keeping away from the edges of the envelop is stupid. learn to fly your aircraft to the edge, so when you accidentally get there its not a surprise.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

I do not think they did any real stall testing in the aircraft. They used computer simulations to come up with programming for the sims.
 
They certainly stalled the aircraft during certification flight testing. Whether they have the data required to program training sims is a different question.
 
This thread really bugs me!

The accident happened in my local area, at a nearby airfield I have flown in and out of on several occasions. Its one of those little strips, down in the trees that's easy to lose sight of on downwind. And, the advisory comments in the chart supplement suggest land north, takeoff south.

Earlier in the day, most days, thats no problem. But often, later in the day, its easy to set yourself up for that base turn with a light tailwind that has proven to sometimes be a dangerous link in a chain of unfortunate events. And it can catch pilots unaware.

Those of you that have never experienced a spin entry from a skidded turn stall, I highly recommend you seek this kind of training out on your next flight review. It can and does happen to even experienced pilots!
 
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Training...........go get some.....

This thread really bugs me!

Those of you that have never experienced a spin entry from a skidded turn stall, I highly recommend you seek this kind of training out on your next flight review. It can and does happen to even experienced pilots!

The thread bugs me as well. This is EXACTLY the point I have been trying to make: go get some instruction in stall-spin entry or go explore yourself. I would NOT wait until the next flight review because a year of flying can pass before you get this valuable instruction.

I was out in the Cub several days ago and it was one of those Funky Wind Days: it was bumpy EVERYwhere and at the home field (15-33 runway) varying from 040 to 110 from 8-16 kts. With houses on the East side of the runway to disrupt airflow across the runway. I actually flew around for a while longer to let things settle down some. When I arrived overhead, I saw the Windsocks at the fuel tanks and North mid-field pointing in opposite directions!!:eek: 5 miles out, favoring 15. Overhead: favoring 33. Base to final: came in high and a little fast to compensate for what may or may not have been happening up there. I rarely look at the airspeed in the Cub as what I see/feel is more informative but I looked at it then! I was doing my usual "tap the rudders" on my base/final turn and slipped a little to get positioned. It was an "interesting" landing, not quite as bumpy as being in the air but seemed like it. Pulling off the runway I announced I was exiting at Bravo and said, 'Well, that was interesting!'. Oddly enough, my thoughts were briefly on the theme of this thread. If what pilots read here saves even one incident, it has served its purpose.

That being said: GO GET SOME DUAL! Or some self-trial at altitude. Won't hurt and could save your bacon!
 
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... Or some self-trial at altitude. Won't hurt and could save your bacon!

I did my initial aerobatic training in a Pitts S-2C. Accelerated stalls were pretty abrupt.

I wonder, has anyone gone out and tried slipped/skidded, power on/power off turning stalls in an RV on purpose? If so, what was it like?
 
Spin out of a skid.....as in base to final screw-up.....

Vac has a good video about stalls in the base to final turn, going all the way into the spin, with excellent explanation on what's happening, and also accompanied by AOA tones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5xntbFSHf0

Lenny

Great video!:eek: Everyone should watch this! It's what I was describing in my previous post. What might be described as "a must to avoid" (with apologies to Herman's Hermits.....).

A spin is a sudden onset of unusual attitude and the corrective "reflex" is usually wrong: pull back as Ma Earth is coming up and the cows are spinning and getting larger. Push forward and opposite rudder. The Cub winds up a little after the second turn but if you just let go of everything, she takes another turn and a half or so before coming out of it without input from the pilot. Better with pilot input....;)

If you have not done them, again, go find an instructor that teaches them. See what they look like, how to avoid them and what to do to get out of them, if there is room (i.e., not on base to final). Knowing how to avoid getting there in the first place can save your life.
 
The Cub winds up a little after the second turn but if you just let go of everything, she takes another turn and a half or so before coming out of it without input from the pilot.

Not just the Cub either; I did spin training on my last FR in my -7 and it recovered if you just let go at spin onset almost as fast as with anti-spin inputs.
 
Great design!

Not just the Cub either; I did spin training on my last FR in my -7 and it recovered if you just let go at spin onset almost as fast as with anti-spin inputs.

The -4 recovers quickly as well. I have heard not as quickly as the -6/7 (rumor) as there is a larger fuselage side area to blunt the effect.:confused: Never spun a -6/7.

Yet another attribute of very well-designed airplanes! Thanks, Van!
 
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