What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Standard brakes?

rmartingt

Well Known Member
I'm (finally!) going to be placing a fuselage order in a week or two, and trying to figure out any changes I'd like to make. What brakes are included on the latest kits? How well do they work, and are there better alternatives (besides the very nice but $$$$ Beringers)?

I'm also leaving out the fuel valve (going EFII so I need the duplex) and using an aftermarket tailwheel. Any other suggested changes/deletions?

Thanks!
 
Stock Brakes

work fine. Some have advocated an upgrade, but in my experience, not required at all. I did upgrade the brake fluid to Royco 782 (higher flash point) and the O'rings to Viton.

Best,

Merrill
 
Grove

I switched to grove wheels and brakes after the first 40 hours and found the stopping power to be far superior to stock. This is the discs, linings, calipers, that mount down on the wheel, and of course wheels too while your at it. Nothing brake wise inside the fuse needed to be replaced. I also went 100% braided stainless from Bonaco (or TS fligh lines) for all brake and fuel lines, much easier the bending and flaring aluminum tubing.
 
Standard on ours (6&7)and happy for 3000 hours between the two. because it is a taildragger you might want to be more careful with heavier brakes?? Food for thought. Larry
 
Nothing brake wise inside the fuse needed to be replaced.
Good to know.

I did upgrade the brake fluid to Royco 782 (higher flash point) and the O'rings to Viton.l
I'd like to change to DOT 4 or 5 fluid for fire resistance and availability reasons, which will drive an o-ring change.

Standard on ours (6&7)and happy for 3000 hours between the two. because it is a taildragger you might want to be more careful with heavier brakes?? Food for thought. Larry
I'm not looking for more "stopping power" in the sense of harder deceleration, but rather total kinetic energy absorption. At standard MTOW (1800lb) the stock brakes can only absorb a rejected takeoff from 54kt--and that's with no margin and assuming no prior braking during taxi. Of course, that's assuming no aerodynamic braking, but still. I'd like to know I can reject a takeoff all the way up to flying speed, or shoot multiple full-stop landings in succession, and not overheat my brakes.
 
Use Mil 83282 fluid (the Royco 782) and leave the master cylinder o-rings alone. Swap out the nitrile caliper o-rings for viton to raise the caliper heat tolerance. Install a Cleveland #199-93 upgrade kit to bump kinetic energy rating from 117,500 to 155,000 ft-lbs.

There is no practical upgrade or brand that will allow multiple full-stops in quick succession. We store the energy as heat. Although we can increase the storage capacity, it still must be dissipated before adding another load of BTUs. That requires cooling time, and we have wheel pants, which slows the process.

The better hot idle performance of EFI (as compared to constant flow injection) should slightly reduce the brake requirements during taxi....less RPM. Beyond that, the tailwheel models just don't work the brakes as hard, as they're not needed to steer.
 
Use Mil 83282 fluid (the Royco 782) and leave the master cylinder o-rings alone. Swap out the nitrile caliper o-rings for viton to raise the caliper heat tolerance.
If I decide not to go DOT4 I'd rather use the transmission fluid, as it appears to be roughly the same but more available in an AOG situation. It does look like the viton rings have a higher temp rating than the EPDM I'd be using with DOT fluid, so it might be a wash.

Install a Cleveland #199-93 upgrade kit to bump kinetic energy rating from 117,500 to 155,000 ft-lbs.
Just on cost alone, it looks like I'd benefit from just omitting the Cleveland brakes altogether and going with the Grove 56-213; plus I'd get even a higher KE rating.

There is no practical upgrade or brand that will allow multiple full-stops in quick succession. We store the energy as heat. Although we can increase the storage capacity, it still must be dissipated before adding another load of BTUs. That requires cooling time, and we have wheel pants, which slows the process.
True, but with less braking application (like on a long runway, you can let some of the speed bleed off) you add less energy each time. It could buy you another landing or two, anyway. But without a way to measure brake temperature it'd be almost impossible to quantify how much margin you have.

On reflection, a more likely scenario would be a landing with average braking, followed shortly by a heavy takeoff (e.g. a fuel stop). More brake capacity, more margin for a rejected takeoff.
 
Brakes

Just on cost alone, it looks like I'd benefit from just omitting the Cleveland brakes altogether and going with the Grove 56-213; plus I'd get even a higher KE rating.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the current kits came standard with Matco wheels and brakes. I deleted those and bought Grove wheels and brakes. The Groves are beautifully made and appear on par with the Clevelands. I'm guessing some of the performance comments in this thread are from Cleveland users as I think the older kits came with Clevelands.

I cannot report on the Grove performance as I am not flying yet.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the current kits came standard with Matco wheels and brakes. I deleted those and bought Grove wheels and brakes. The Groves are beautifully made and appear on par with the Clevelands. I'm guessing some of the performance comments in this thread are from Cleveland users as I think the older kits came with Clevelands.

I cannot report on the Grove performance as I am not flying yet.

I'm going by the sample packing lists Van's sent me a year or so ago; it lists Cleveland brakes. Perhaps that's changed?

At this point I'm thinking I'll be keeping the stock cylinders (so no change to the fuselage order) and using the Grove brakes come finishing time, as that looks to be the best way to get the increased energy capability.
 
What upgrade path do those of us with Matco wheels and brakes have? Or would that require switching calipers (and wheels?) all together?
 
On my 7 fuse kit ordered in 2014 the brakes are Matco. The master cylinders and wheel/calipers are separate submits so it would be easy to leave cockpit parts stock
and change out the wheels. I kept it all stock we'll see how it goes.
 
Back
Top