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Any Regrets Over Changing from 7A to 7?

Stalldog

Well Known Member
I've been planning to build a 7A, and getting close to ordering the fuse kit, but the more I look at 7's the more I like the look. In fact I really like the look. I've never flown a taildragger, but shouldn't be too hard to get an endorsement.

I doubt I'm the only person building one of these that's come to this fork in the road, so for those who may have dropped the nose gear for a tail wheel, are there any regrets? Have you been pleased with your decision? Would you make the same decision again?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
 
I bought a fuselage all set up for a tail wheel and converted it to a nose wheel. I am sure there are more that do what you are considering, but I am happy . Get some time in both and then decide. I am building the plane for travelling and not grass strips. I will build a Kitfox for back country.
 
I did this exact same thing. I had no tail wheel time when I switched. I have not regretted switching to a tail wheel once, nor have I ever thought I would of liked a nose wheel in any situation, but to each their own.
 
About time :)

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

I knew you would come around :D

One advantage with the taildragger is that Vans sends the Ray Bans and leather jacket as standard equipment. You'll also need pretty girl repellant but I think you can get that from Spruce :D

Glad I could be of help.
 
You'll also need pretty girl repellant but I think you can get that from Spruce :D

No, Spruce does not have. No one does ... no one.

Seriously, I'm building a 7 and feel ... all coollness of the little wheel being on the proper end of the fuse aside ... that the conventional gear config is stronger and more robust. The nose gear on a xA seems a bit fragile.

Also, greasing a wheelie is pure pilot bliss (too bad the repellent doesn't exist ... not ;)
 
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I knew you would come around :D

Well, I'm seriously considering it. A little concerned about the issues with the nose wheel, although I'd imagine that can be beefed up with an add-on. I do prefer the look of the 7 though. You may have to give me a ride sometime in your 120.

I'm not too worried about needing any repellent -- it's sure never been an issue before! :D
 
No TW time? Talk to your insurance agent before deciding. Recently Jenny posted that with less than 25 TW hrs it would be expensive and/or difficult to get.

Edit, yes, 25, not 250. Brain slip.
 
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No TW time? Talk to your insurance agent before deciding. Recently Jenny posted that with less than 250 TW hrs it would be expensive and/or difficult to get.

I had 600 TT and only needed 5 hrs with qualified person on type, but that was in 2009. I am sure it's changed and different with every insurer.
 
I knew you would come around :D

One advantage with the taildragger is that Vans sends the Ray Bans and leather jacket as standard equipment. You'll also need pretty girl repellant but I think you can get that from Spruce :D

Glad I could be of help.

My wife thinks I am plenty cool with a nose wheel and Van offered me the Ray Bans and leather jacket when buying my 6A kit, since all RVs are way cooler then anything else out there, but I opted for electric trim and sliding canopy.:)
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Seriously, when I was building my 6A I bought a C-140. Put on 300 tail wheel hours. Still glad I continued with the 6A and have never regretted as I think the 6A looks pretty cool (I admit the 6 is just a tiny bit cooler looking but you should build what you want and not something just because it is cool)
 
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I now have about 30 hrs in my -7. With a decent amount of experience in all kinds of tail wheels from Champs and Cubs to Pitts and Extras, I can say it is by far the easiest and most docile taildragger I have ever flown. Wheel landings are a real joy in this plane, and I can't believe how short I can land it full stall with full flaps. Visibility while landing and taxiing is very good as well, compared to other tail wheels. The only downside for someone inexperienced might be the higher insurance until you accumulate some hours, but I would say it's quite worth it. I believe, if you learn TW in a Decathlon or Champ, you will find the -7 a pussycat compared to them.
 
Nose-wheel, then TW

I had zero experience with TW before I built my first -7.
Until then, I had about 9000 hrs/30 years on nosewheel: T-37, T-38, F-5, F-16, Boeing 737, Cessna 150 + 172's, Piper Cherokee and Saab Safir. A total of about 400 hrs on GA planes with nosewheel.

Therefore, I was set on building a 7A because I thought it'd be difficult to get used to the TW after all that time with the wheel up front.

Luckily, I was talked into building a 7 by several pilot-friends of mine: all of them said the same thing: "a TW -7 is very easy to get familar with. It'll be absolutety NO CHALLENGE for you to get used to it." (They had all gone the same route: NW to TW)

I took a ride with an IP in a Cub and where convinced: there was nothing to it really.
The TW training consisted of a few hours (about 50 landings) on a Cub, and approx 30 landings on a Cap 10.
Then I did about 30 landings on a Cub alone, then about 20 landings on a RV-6 with an IP. Then I felt I was ready for the first flight in my -7.
This was in 2008.

Now, I'm VERY happy I trusted my pilot-friends: the -7 is easier the handle than both the Cap-10 and the Cub and it's just pure fun with the TW.
Besides: I'm often landing on short grass-strips and I have no fear to flip over.

The wiew on ground is plenty, the X-wind takeoff and -landings are pure fun and it feels very good to have the wheel in the back.
I have set the tension in the chains as shown in the building manual, and the plane is very easy to handle.

I suggest you get a few rides in RV's which have the 3rd wheel in the front and in the back, then follow your gut feeling.

Good luck. :)
 
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Thanks!

Excellent points by all, and I really appreciate the input. When the weather improves this Spring I'll hookup with someone for a TW lesson and see what gives. I've certainly got the time to get a TW endorsement and build some time. I figure at my given rate I've got three more years on my build!

Thanks again for the feedback.
 
wife

I said, "I want to build an airplane."
Sweetie said, "Fine as long as it's got a wheel in front."
Nuff said! Cuz if the wife ain't happy, no one is happy.

Plus the insurance quote was much better.
 
Really? What is up with the Top Gun mentality around here, for me, it was a low time pilot and no tail wheel-insurance cost decision. For the girl thing, the 32' twin offshore power boat does just fine. Don't see too many random bikini girls hanging around the hanger these days:D
 
Easy!

I built a RV6 with no tail wheel time. I taxied my new plane around the runway and got used to it. After a few hours with some aggressive moves, ie ,tail up., I went flying. No regrets, it was so easy. At the time I had about 1,400 hours in my log, and I was current flying a C172.
Now, 18 years later, I have over 2300 RV hours, logged. I have only had to sweat a few times, when the wind was howling! About 125 of those RV hours were in a nose wheel RV. No regrets.
 
25 tw hours isn't all that difficult to get. As for low time, I was fairly low time (couple hundred fixed wing/glider hours and 25 tw hrs) when I got my -8, and the insurance underwriters didn't really care about my 1000hrs of helicopter time. Don't let low time, total or tw, deter you. 25 is easy to get and you only have to do it once. My first year of insurance wasn't much more than my second after gaining a couple hundred tw hours...the low time penalty isn't that bad and is a onetime thing. Tailwheel is way better. That's a fact not an opinion :) . A lot more people convert nose draggers to tail draggers than the other way around.
 
What!!!!

You mean to tell me Vans actually offers a nose wheel version of these
various models of aircraft????? Wow...can't imagine that!:rolleyes:;):D
 
Tailwheel is way better. That's a fact not an opinion :) .

You mean to tell me Vans actually offers a nose wheel version of these
various models of aircraft????? Wow...can't imagine that!:rolleyes:;):D

OK, it was just a matter of time for this thread to turn down the never ending debate. Seems like the tail wheel guys always need to be the first to justify their position.
 
I did a survey about a year or so ago. The results were:
- On original build, 50% went tail wheel, 50% nose wheel.
- 10% either wanted to switch from nose to tail or did switch.
- There was only one who said he would like to switch from tail wheel to nose wheel.

So there you have it. This does not argue which is best, or why, just that tail wheels are preferred overall by a 60% to 40% split.

HTH

Tim
 
Build what you want, but....

I've had both. I had about 575 hours on my 8A when I sold it and I now have close to 1,000 hour of TW time, including about 600 on my 7. I love the challenge of tailwheel landings in a nice crosswind. Having said that, if I do build another RV it will be a plane with a nosegear (either a 7A or a 14A). The primary reason is that my wife cannot master the tailwheel landing technique which I find so easy. The truth is, what's easy for one person is not so easy for the next. In addition, I love sitting tall on the ground in the nosegear airplanes. Add to that the increased insurance costs for tailwheel airplanes (don't take my word for it, call your insurance agent). My agent told me I was considered low time in tailwheel planes in 2009 when I already had close to 150 hours in a Cessna 140.

I guess the solution is to have both, so a couple of years ago I picked up one of these that I found on Barnstormers.:)

http://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=YuBrJXyEKsk
 
Disregard take-offs and landings, there's a lot more to it living with an airplane.

Nose Draggers:

Have a nose gear in the way of engine maintenance.
Have a horrible trip-and-fall jungle-gym mess of gear support taking up space where your feet or small baggage could go. Even on short rides, I get uncomfortable with the limited wiggle room and/or sitting slightly skewed.
Have (or desperately need) a step.
More Expensive.
Slower - but hardly noticeable, and a tad heavier.
Require having and maybe carrying a tow bar.

Taildraggers:

Put the baggage area much closer to the ground. Taking best advantage of this attribute is a side-by-side tip-up slider; easy reach over directly into the baggage area.

Slightly more difficult to exit since you're moving uphill. A rabbit trail on this point: old inflexible pilots have more grab points and find it easier to enter/exit a slider. So would youthful ones, too. Here's where the nose dragger gear reinforcement again makes its intrusive presence known.

Superior rough field taxiing, but wheel fairings are closer to the surface.

John Siebold
 
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I would have gone tailwheel, but my wife is learning to fly and I didn't want any additional challenges for her. :)
 
I had zero tailwheel time and built a -7A after making a list of pro's and cons. When you put everything down on paper (insurance, TW time, potential landing difficulty, etc.) it will almost always point to the nosewheel. But then if you put everything down on paper we wouldn't fly airplanes or drive cars either.

I was never truly happy with the -7A. I started to make the conversion to -7 several times, but every time I talked to Vans support they talked me out of it for basically the same reasons on the pro/con list. I finally just said screw it, I'm making the conversion and did it. After about 300hrs in the converted -7, I couldn't be happier.

7A time - ~600hrs
7 Time - ~300hrs
TW time before first flight in my converted 7 - ~5 hrs in Citabria + ~2hrs in -6

The Reality -
Insurance went up about $200 for the first year. I actually pay less than the -7A now though. I assume that is due to the general drop in insurance costs and my TW time. Either way, the extra insurance cost was less than a couple tanks of gas.

TW landings are harder, but it's really not an issue in the RV. I felt safe when I first flew the -7 even with my low TW time, but my landings were not exactly things of beauty. The -7 has good directional control and tolerates a crab or bounce at touchdown reasonably well. Ask me how I know. ;-) My landings improved rapidly and after ~50hrs I was pretty confident even in reasonable crosswinds. Now days, I would say 95% of my landings are very good/great. The other 5% are fine, but include something like a small bounce or other less than great issue. Usually these happen when all my buddies are there to give me ****. Overall, I really like the challenge of making an "A+" landing. "A's" happen often, but an "A+" is an illusive thing.

At the end of the day, the cost and difficulty of the TW are small issues. You will do fine either way you go. For me, I'm really glad I made the change. If for no other reason, I really like the way the -7 looks.
 
Often overlooked facts:

* The taildraggers never fall onto the rudder when 2 people step onto the wing at the same time.

* Taildraggers are lighter and faster when compared apples to apples.

* One less tire to go flat on a taildragger.

* Taildraggers are easier to move around on the ground with a towbar. I chuckle to myself everytime one of my RV-XA buddies struggles to push their nosedragger into a hangar.

For me, the advantages of taildraggers far outweigh the disadvantages.

I would shamelessly fly either a taildragger or a nosedragger, but I'll only build taildraggers. I'm converting an RV-6A to an RV-6 currently.

Besides, it wouldn't be right for a guy who makes and sells tailwheels to build a nosedragger!
 
PGR on back order

Spruce is completely out of Pretty Girl Repellent. A bunch of desperate RV-8 drivers bought up their entire stock.
 
I'm going with a taildragger on my -7 because it's what I'm used to from flying a -6 for 11 years. In fact, I'm so used to it now that on the rare occasions I fly a nosewheel plane (i.e., for BFRs) I butcher the landings :eek:
 
I did a 180; was dead set on a A model but am now building the TW; no TW endorsement.

Reasons: I could not get over the percieved problem with the nose gear, TW seems simpler to me, and the only ride in a 7 was an A model and the main leg weldment in the cockpit realy bothered my leg.

I think learning something new with the TW will be fun.
 
Tail wheel vrs trike - same old discussion

With regard to tail wheel vrs trike, if there are regrets they are not transferable. The choice is a personal one and so is the satisfaction level. If an individual is not happy with a decision on this subject it does not spread like a cold virus, it is local and personal.

Do what you are inclined to do and if the outcome is no good, do something different. Do not make the decision based on another person's feeling on the subject, follow your own path.

The aviation world knows the tricycle configuration is safer than the conventional version. That's why things changed after WWII, its ancient history. But the appearance and challenge of flying with a tail wheel is embedded in many pilots, so they go for it and do quite well.

Life is boring without a challenge. :)
 
Another TW switcher. Though I'm still on the empennage, I had every intention of building a 7A. But the coolness factor (for me) of a TW just became too much to resist.

Now if I can learn to fly the darn thing...
 
Same boat

I'm building the 7 TW slider. The only tail wheel aircraft I've been in is a DC3 as a passenger and that alone was very cool. I have always been facinated by all TW aircraft.
I only have around 1500TT most in my Mooney. Sometimes as I'm building I think I shouldn't be building a TW. I know if I don't follow through I'd always feel some regret. If by some fluke I don't like it I'd just build the 14A and I don't think that's going to happen.

Maybe if I'm luck some day soon I will catch a ride in a tw RV 6-7.
 
Well I'll jump in on this discussion. Im 32 years old I have only 250ish total time, but 100 in my decathlon and 50 in a Taylorcraft and rest in Misc Cessnas. But as I was buying my decathlon and etc. all the guys at the airport said you'll love taildraggers and never go back "just something about them". Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the Decathlon as far as aerobatics and cutting up, but as far as the "taildragger" part I didn't care either or, it wasn't hard or anything, I actually found it easy to land in all wind conditions, just didn't understand all the hype about taildraggers. I have flown tri gears, fairchilds etc and landing and taking off is landing and taking off, I don't care which one it is. I know this is a simplistic look at the ideals, but me and my cfi and partner(who built a immaculate rv7 a couple years back) are 90% done with our RV7A, we both wanted to try a nose gear and our thinking was simply for bad/ifr landings and flying. We are putting all the glass panels and g430w etc and our thinking was its alittle less to worry about in IFR winds etc. Could we land RV7 in those conditions of course, but just wanting to try both flavors nose vs. tail. and see which one is better. And me personally i think the 7a looks just as good as the 7. And just a side not, I think 99.9% of all 7A nose overs are pilot error. jmho
 
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I've Got A Plan

A lot of good comments here and reasons for/against both nose gear and tail wheel. As someone has said, it's an individual preference and I just have to find out for myself, so I've found someone locally who can provide a TW endorsement (once the weather improves -- I don't need to freeze my butt to the seat in -10F temperatures)! I figure getting my endorsement will only help me be a better pilot plus give me a better idea if a TW plane is for me.

My current CFI thinks I'm crazy to drop the nose gear. He has a TW endorsement but doesn't care to fly that way other than improving piloting skills. He makes it sound pretty intense, but I might as well find out for myself, I might love it, who knows. One concern my CFI brought up is my age, early 60's, so getting in the TW 7 might be more difficult in the years to come. Something to think about.

Thanks again for all the good input.
 
I have no thoughts about which is "better." Having said that, I too was very undecided just as I was about to order the fuselage kit. I had no experience at all with a tailwheel but kind of wanted to learn. Coincidentally, that was the summer of 2005 and a large number of -A models happened to flip that year. Whether justified or not, that helped me finalize my decision in favor of the tailwheel. All that aside, I found that learning to fly a tailwheel RV to be, by and large, a piece of cake. It has been way easier than the Stinson I got a tailwheel endorsement in and it has NEVER, EVER gotten squirrel-ly on me or made me think the tail wanted to swap ends. (Knock on wood.) Now I really enjoy it, especially being able to land different ways (2-pt vs. 3-pt) just because I have the option.

FWIW, just this past weekend I landed with a 70-80 degree crosswind at 15 gusting to 22 no problem. I was fully prepared to do a go around because I've not yet faced those kinds of winds, but it turned out to be very much a non event.

Good luck with your decision. You won't go wrong either way though.
 
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the Decathlon as far as aerobatics and cutting up, but as far as the "taildragger" part I didn't care either or, it wasn't hard or anything, I actually found it easy to land in all wind conditions, just didn't understand all the hype about taildraggers.

A Decathlon doesn't really qualify as a taildragger. :D
 
My current CFI thinks I'm crazy to drop the nose gear. He has a TW endorsement but doesn't care to fly that way other than improving piloting skills. He makes it sound pretty intense, but I might as well find out for myself, I might love it, who knows. One concern my CFI brought up is my age, early 60's, so getting in the TW 7 might be more difficult in the years to come. Something to think about.

Thanks again for all the good input.
Jim,

If you're serious about a tailwheel endorsement, I'd look for a different instructor. Nothing personal toward him, but if his heart isn't in it, yours won't be either.
 
Jim,
If you're serious about a tailwheel endorsement, I'd look for a different instructor. Nothing personal toward him, but if his heart isn't in it, yours won't be either.

I agree. And BTW 60s is YOUNG!

I'm in my early 70s and if I can't fly a tailwheel, I shouldn't be flying anything.
 
Well, I probably gave you the wrong impression about my CFI. He's not the one who will provide the TW endorsement, but he referred me to the other TW CFI. My current CFI was just giving me his opinion regarding dropping the nose wheel, and you're right, he's not a TW loving kind of guy even though he has the endorsement.

And Mel, you're right about 60's being young, but it's good to hear that reminder. Maybe that explains why I usually act like a 20 year old! :D I've got my Commercial license and instrument rating, but to be honest it was more of a chore working on those. Looking forward to getting my TW endorsement actually has me looking forward to receiving instruction again and trying something really new. Hey, it couldn't hurt. On second thought . . . . :rolleyes:
 
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