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  #1  
Old 09-05-2022, 03:59 PM
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Hartstoc Hartstoc is offline
 
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Location: Sebastopol,CA
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Default Now that G100UL has the FAA stamp of approval-

A couple of thoughts come to mind-

1- With “No approved alternative” being pretty much the only remaining argument for legal availability of 100LL, how much time will pass before it becomes illegal, especially here in California? Might that motivate a rather speedy transition?

2- I wonder if we will be seeing the return of semi-synthetic(or even fully synthetic?) aviation motor oil availability.
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Last edited by Hartstoc : 09-05-2022 at 04:27 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2022, 08:49 PM
RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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From General Aviation News:

https://generalaviationnews.com/2022...tion-aircraft/
"At SUN ‘n FUN 2022, Braly noted the first customers of G100UL will be airports where 100LL has been banned, such as Reid-Hillview Airport (KRHV) in East San José and San Martin Airport (E16) in Santa Clara County in California."
and
"Other than being lead-free are there other benefits to G100UL? Spark plug maintenance and replacement intervals will improve with the absence of lead, while it is likely that over time oil change intervals will double. Without lead, it is also likely that synthetic oil will become available that will further increase oil change intervals, GAMI officials said."
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2022, 08:56 PM
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Hartstoc Hartstoc is offline
 
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Default

Well, there you go!
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RV-7A (bought but massively modified)
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-2022 VAF donation!!-
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2022, 11:30 PM
Majorpayne317641 Majorpayne317641 is offline
 
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Location: Goldsboro, NC
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I'd be cautious about making those assumptions. Think about how long it took for the fuel to get to this point. FAA and also the big engine manufacturers (not Rotax) move at the speed of slow. I doubt they will change anything and use the wait and see method. I don't agree with it but this has been their track record. Look at how long magneto replacements in the certified world took to become a reality after Emag had been putting them to shame for years. We still don't have any real modern engine option from lycoming or continental, modern as in built from the ground up like a modern engine. Not endorsing it, but Austro being an example. They have their problems but at least they tried. Maybe it will be different this time and I hope so, but I'm not counting on it.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2022, 10:31 AM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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We don't need an STC, but G100UL will unlikely be available for many years or even a decade. 100LL is still de facto fuel for piston engines, and 200 million gallons are sold a year. G100UL will have to have separate production, transportation and distribution, which does not exist. The special processes and production of additives also needs to be ramped up.

GAMI has one "agreement" with a major refinery. to be announced. Production, transportation and distribution need to be figured out. Cost is expected to be 50 to 80 cents more than 100LL.

California and Fed Gov has a bad habit of making mandates that technology can't support (like their recent mandate to produce all EV vehicles within a decade). If they force a ban on 100LL it will be a disaster for GA. It might take years or a decade to ramp up G100UL production.

Certified planes will all get STC's which requires testing and bureaucracy. For me the Mooney's with 180HP engine is the certified equivalent of my RV-7's installation. The 180HP Mooney had a STC for Mogas but it also had history of vapor lock issues in service. That is why I never went Mogas and other reasons. The biggest reason MOGAS is rare, hard to find. Mogas has been around for decades and in large parts of the USA is non existent.

Suspect the Mogas production and distribution could be replaced by G100UL first. However will G100UL be like Mogas and after a decade not be widely available. Why buy G100UL if you can still get 100LL cheaper. That will be the financial calculation the Petroleum companies must make. I believe 100LL is a money maker, even with low volume the price makes it profitable.

VERY interested in how this fuel will work in my O360 180HP Lyc in real world operations. RV'have tight cowls and fuel gets hot, so vapor pressure will be critical. Those with fire breathing IO390 with HC pistons I also wonder. I assume right or wrong 100 means it really does have 100 octane. I have never seen data of 100LL vs G100UL. Lead is bad to human health, it does have other good properties in engines besides increasing Octane it acts like lubrication. Lead fouling is of course the bad part, so G100GL promises to end plug fouling and lead deposits on valves.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 09-07-2022 at 06:03 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2022, 10:48 AM
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rmartingt rmartingt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot View Post
Certified planes will have to all get STC's which requires testing.
from the GAMI website, emphasis mine:
Quote:
General Aviation Modifications, Inc. (GAMI) is pleased to announce that we have received the FAA’s Approval of the expansion of our Supplemental Type Certificates on the use of our G100UL High Octane, Unleaded Avgas. The Approved Model List (AML) now covers every spark ignition piston engine and every airframe using a spark ignition piston engine(s) in the FAA’s Type Certificate database.
Regarding operation with high compression, from their FAQs document:
Quote:
At the conclusion of the two days of detonation testing, GAMI elected to complete an optional test item from the FAA approved test matrix.
That test item was to determine the maximum Brake Horsepower (BHP) at which the 8.7:1 CR IO-550 turbo-charged test engine could be operated and continue to pass a standard Part 33.47 FAA full power detonation test. With redline cylinder and induction air temperatures, the engine easily operated at 41.4” MP, 380 actual BHP (414 BHP when corrected to Standard Day conditions). We were unable to determine how much more additional HP could be obtained because the pressure relief “pop-off” valve on the induction system was limit-ing further increases in manifold pressure.
They've really done their homework on this stuff over more than a decade of testing.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2022, 11:21 AM
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Tandem46 Tandem46 is offline
 
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New Aweb Paul Bertorelli video (4 hours ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibIkuyBL9i8
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2022, 11:41 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
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Default Paul’s Guest

Paul’s guest on one of his videos suggest the G100UL is just the 100/150 fuel developed shortly after WW2. Seems the technology is not on the cutting edge, but uses well proven chemistry.
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WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

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  #9  
Old 09-06-2022, 12:49 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Already on the early list of approved engines months ago was the R2800 which are typically run at a de-rated 52-54 inches when operated on 100LL.

A 390 will not have to worry here.
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2022, 02:50 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
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Default Higher, better faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Already on the early list of approved engines months ago was the R2800 which are typically run at a de-rated 52-54 inches when operated on 100LL.

A 390 will not have to worry here.
Also in one of Paul's video, the GAMI God says that the octane could be as high as 100/160. I was wondering if this fuel will allow more power to be created (higher MP) than standard 100LL?
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WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2022, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
98% done, 2% left to go
To Go: wing mounting, engine baffles, wing tips, move to airport
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com

Last edited by PilotjohnS : 09-06-2022 at 02:57 PM.
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