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  #11  
Old 12-12-2008, 04:13 PM
rocketbob's Avatar
rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredMagare View Post
I respectfully disagree. I have alumiprep (only - no alodine) stored in a five gallon bucket (originally diluted with 2 gals alumiprep/3 gals distilled water). Nearly three years stored and still working great! However, I did have the original five gallon bucket crack. The alumiprep spill seriously etched my garage floor to a depth of about 3/4 of an inch! If you store in this manner, I suggest you keep the bucket on a tray which will contain any spill.
Yep me too, my 5 gallon bucket has been sitting for a few years and still works fine.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2008, 10:04 PM
qiutong qiutong is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Goshen, OH
Posts: 54
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Thanks for all the advice and information everyone,

I've looked locally at a few auto parts places and paint suppliers, with no luck, but living near Cincinnati, I'm sure that I will find it somewhere. Now I know exactly what to ask for when I call for information, rather than just trying to explain what I'm trying to do. It seems to be a strange thing for people to understand that I'm planning to build an airplane!

I'll also be cautious about storing it. Sounds like it's some pretty nasty stuff, I'll be glad to keep it until I'm done (hopefully), then deal with it's disposal only once.

This is only the second forum that I have ever posted on. The first one was a job search forum, but this one is a lot more fun. Thanks again guys!

Brad
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RV-7 standard wing slowly being built (Wish I had more time!)
Cincinnati area (Goshen)

Last edited by qiutong : 01-04-2009 at 08:16 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2008, 08:25 AM
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mikehoover mikehoover is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qiutong View Post
Thanks for all the advice and information everyone,

I've looked locally at a few auto parts places and paint suppliers, with no luck, but living near Cincinnati, I'm sure that I will find it somewhere. Now I know exactly what to ask for when I call for information, rather than just trying to explain what I'm trying to do. It seems to be a strange thing for people to understand that I'm planning to build an airplane!

I'll also be cautious about storing it. Sounds like it's some pretty nasty stuff, I'll be glad to keep it until I'm done (hopefully), then deal with it's disposal only once.

This is only the second forum that I have ever posted on. The first one was a job search forum, but this one is a lot more fun. Thanks again guys!

Brad
Check to see if you have a FinishMaster in your area. The one here in SC carries DuPont products, DuPont 215 (alum prep) and 216 (alodine equivalent), and Variprime primer.
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2008, 08:55 AM
qiutong qiutong is offline
 
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Thanks Mike,

I checked and there is a FinishMaster in Cincinnati. I will call and check if they have the Dupont equivalents available. A lot easier than having to order/ship if I can pick them up myself!

Brad
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Last edited by qiutong : 01-04-2009 at 08:17 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2008, 10:08 AM
FredMagare FredMagare is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyle, TX
Posts: 567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qiutong View Post
I'll also be cautious about storing it. Sounds like it's some pretty nasty stuff, I'll be glad to keep it until I'm done (hopefully), then deal with it's disposal only once.
My diluted Alumiprep is not all that aggressive but I still wear chemical gloves when using it. I've spilled some on my skin but I just rinse immediately with water with no ill effects. (If you leave it on your skin, it'll let you know it's there with an itch that starts to feel like a burn but again - rinsing with water takes care of it.)

Regarding my spill - the bucket was clean but old (mia culpa!) which is probably why it cracked. The spill had probably been there for two weeks or more. I think if I had caught it sooner the damage to my garage would have been limited to discoloration and light pitting.

Good luck.
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  #16  
Old 12-13-2008, 01:28 PM
chaskuss chaskuss is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SE Florida
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Mr Maxwell,
As others have stated, chromic acid conversion chemicals (including Alodine, Iridite and DoradoKote) are photo-chemically active. DO NOT use them in direct sunlight. If you do, those chemicals will only work that first day! The sun light will ruin them. I store my chemicals in 5 gallon plastic paint buckets, like those sold at Home Depot. These containers have tight lids with an air tight seal. I place the buckets at the rear of my shop, under my work bench. This keeps them away from the shop lights.
I do all my etch/Alodine work in my shop (in shade) with the overhead door open for good ventilation. When I make temporary large vats (for large parts), I use an aquarium pump to transfer the chemicals back into their storage buckets when done.
My experience is that liquid Alodine is good for about 2 years. I am still using the same AlumiPrep I purchased 7 years ago. It's diluted 5 to 1 and still works great. To dispose of AlumiPrep or it's competitors, simply pour it out on concrete. Your garage floor or driveway works well. The lime in the concrete will neutralize the AlumiPrep AND clean the concrete at the same time. Be sure to rinse it off the concrete when finished.
Try to buy your Alodine/Iridite/DoradoKote in powder form. The powder can be stored for many years, if placed in zip lock bags. You can also use it to "freshen up" your fading liquid. Purchasing in powder form will result in a 90% cost savings, as well. I went with MacDirmid's Iridite 14-2, because their distributor in Miami was close to me. Check with Heinkel Corp, MacDirmid and Eldorado Chemical to see if they have a distributor near you. They usually sell the powder in 10 pound lots. This is enough to make 100 gallons of liquid. I was able to dip even the largest pieces using only 40 gallons. Around here, we try to share a purchase of powdered Iridite between 2 or 3 builders. I paid about $180 for 10 pounds about 4 years ago. That works out to $1.80 per gallon. Last I checked, liquid Alodine was over $27 per gallon. MacDirmid also sells their etch chemical (IsoPrep 188) at a discount in 5 gallon jugs.
Charlie Kuss
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2008, 06:52 PM
Michael Burbidge Michael Burbidge is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sammamish, WA
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Default Iridite

Elderado no longer carries Alodine power. A month ago I did an extensive search and finally found a place that carried small amounts (2 lbs). I got mine from http://www.pegasusautoracing.com. It was $80 for 2 lbs. You need just over an ounce per gallon. So yes it is very inexpensive compare to the liquid form from ACS.

I think Alodine is a trade name. The stuff I bought was called Iridite. But it is the same stuff and is working very well.

Here's the exact page http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=6081
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:22 AM
PJSeipel PJSeipel is offline
 
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Location: Albany, GA for the moment
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For the folks who are new to the powder....please read the MSDS before you use the stuff. Chromic acid in concentrated form and packaged as a powder can do quite a number on your lungs if you use it without a respirator and inhale some by accident. Since hexavalent chromium is carcinogenic, it could cause further problems down the line as well. Point being, don't try to mix it on a windy day with the garage door open, and make sure whatever container you put it in is spill-proof.

Also, always add the powder to water, never the other way around or you risk a big splash of concentrated acid.

I bought 5 lbs from El Dorado several years ago, and unless you're trying to make 40 gallons and dip large parts, the 2lb from Pegasus ought to get you pretty far. I've alodined just about everything using some large flat tupperware containers, or for the long things like spars the foodsaver bag rolls work very well so long as you don't poke holes in them.

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
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  #19  
Old 12-14-2008, 02:43 PM
chaskuss chaskuss is offline
 
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Location: SE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbidg@adobe.com View Post
Elderado no longer carries Alodine power. A month ago I did an extensive search and finally found a place that carried small amounts (2 lbs). I got mine from http://www.pegasusautoracing.com. It was $80 for 2 lbs. You need just over an ounce per gallon. So yes it is very inexpensive compare to the liquid form from ACS.

I think Alodine is a trade name. The stuff I bought was called Iridite. But it is the same stuff and is working very well.

Here's the exact page http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=6081
Interesting! Pegasus is owned by Chris Heitman. Chris built an RV-9A. I've used both Alodine 1201 and Iridite 14-2. They are both essentially the same product. You can even mix them, I have. I purchase my Iridite (the nearest Alodine distributor is in Atlanta) from Allied Welding Supply in Hialeah, Florida (just north of Miami) I paid around $180 for 10 pounds, but that was 4 years ago. It came in the same can as shown on Pegasus' web site below.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=5590

If you are ever in the SE Florida area, I have about 25 gallons now in liquid. I could probably spare about 10 gallons of it.

PJ is correct about being careful with chromic acid solutions. I always wear latex rubber gloves. I advise wearing long sleeve shirt and pants to prevent minor spills from getting on your skin. Also keep extra socks at the ready. The few times I spilled it on myself was when trying to ladle the acid out of very large, temporary vat tanks (doing large skins). I seemed to spill it on my socks. I would just slip off my shoes and socks. I would then rinse off my feet and ankles using the garden hose.
Once I purchased an aqurium pump and hoses, I never spilled it on myself again.
Charlie Kuss
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2009, 12:03 AM
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bruceh bruceh is offline
 
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Location: Ramona, CA
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Default data point on shelf life

My Dad recently donated a bunch of stuff to my RV project. He gave me a quart each of Alodine 1201 and Alumiprep. He probably bought these 20 years ago, so I was curious whether they were still effective. I don't know how these were stored.

Tonight I played around with etching and alodining some scrap aluminum. The Alumiprep was mixed 1-1 with water, sprayed on, scrubbed with a scotchbrite pad, and it seemed to be very effective at etching the aluminum. Water sheeted right off in the rinse.

Next I brushed on the alodine. Nothing. No noticeable coloring change. I dipped it for several minutes. Still nothing. No color at all.

Alodine definitely has a shelf life, and the Alumiprep is still relatively effective after 20 years. Now I need to figure out how to safely dispose of the alodine.
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