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Anyone hear from Andair recently?...

5

543TB

Well Known Member
Or did I flush the money I paid last spring for a fuel selector valve down the drain? I had placed the order directly through their website in April, and received a confirmation a few days later that there was a 12 week lead time, and then forgot about it over the summer.

Fast forward to the last days of 2022, I realized I had no selector, no communication, and my email query sent two weeks ago resulted in no response. Am I alone here in being ghosted by Andair?
 
I think the consensus here on VAF for Andair is that you gotta call them. Search past threads, people have spotty success with E-mail.
 
I've had good results from Andair, however, I'm not afraid to phone them keeping in mind the time zone difference and I did several times. However, I phoned and confirmed an order with a UK supplier of sports car parts in mid December. Confirmation not received, but I expected that. Phoned them this morning and they had no record of my December email. Forwarded the December email during our telephone conversation and they confirmed receipt.

For all UK suppliers, don't be afraid to phone them but keep in mind the time zone difference
 
I ordered a fuel selector in August, chased in December, was told it would be delivered in January but in fact it turned up in December. Call them, they were helpful with me. It was a chap called Toren that helped me.
 
It's 2023 for the love of Mike...I simply do not understand companies that behave this way, not answering emails. And I have and really like a couple of Andair products.

But honestly...seems a really poor way to conduct business, IMO.
 
2 weeks sgo

Ordered a fuel valve and followed with an email requesting different fittings. Received email confirming parts where on order. Great hardware….CS well not perfect.
 
Yes ...

My fuel selector valve arrived a couple of hours ago.

Ordered and paid for on 2022-03-03.

Andair website terms and conditions include:

"Availability – While we endeavor to hold sufficient stock to meet all orders, if, we have insufficient stock to deliver the goods ordered by you, after a reasonable period of time, you will be notified. We will not be obliged to offer any additional compensation for disappointment suffered

Delivery – We will deliver the goods ordered by you as soon as reasonably practicable to the address you give us for delivery at the time you made your order. If we are unable to dispatch your order within 28 days, we will advise you of the delivery time. "

When I heard nothing by 2022-06-25, sent them an email. No response. Called them. A friendly and competent-seeming woman told me they had component supply delays, but my selector would be completed in about two weeks.

No further contact by 2022-09-26, so called them again. Same person, same two weeks to completion.

No further contact by 2023-01-10, called them again. Same person said my selector had been manufactured, was awaiting final inspection, she would make sure it was inspected and dispatched tomorrow.

Message from FedEx 2023-01-12, my package was picked up from England. Tracking showed it travelling via Paris CDG, Dubai, Singapore and Mascot, arriving in Sydney 2023-01-13. Then moved around Sydney through three different FedEx facilities, finally in my eager hands this morning.

Good looking hardware, friendly staff, customer information system needs work.
 
RV7A Flyer said:
It's 2023 for the love of Mike...I simply do not understand companies that behave this way, not answering emails. And I have and really like a couple of Andair products.

But honestly...seems a really poor way to conduct business, IMO.
Click to expand...

You are not understanding the (lack of) buying power of experimental aviation, particularly in Europe. For companies to continue in business they must focus on servicing certified aviation, there just is not sufficient demand from the experimental sector to generate much profit and that demand is always one-off very specific requirements. Certified aviation (and perhaps Vans) buys batches of the same parts and are much easier to deal with. One buyer, significant order, unlikely to change his mind. Companies like Andair support experimental aviation because the owner has been involved for many years rather than it makes a lot of money... Their product support staff concentrate on their certified/commercial customers and address experimental questions when there is space in their schedule. To get their attention call them.
 
I don’t think it’s a lack of understanding at all - regardless of the amount, Andair hold the customer’s money. Email is just as easy and efficient as a phone call. The customer deserves a reply.

That said - the product is worth the wait, even if communication is lacking. I don’t think it’s a customer service issue. The customer service I received once on the phone to them was excellent.

Vans themselves are guilty of it, too. At the end of the day, they’re businesses holding not inconsiderable amounts of customer’s cash until our order materialises… The least any business could do is reply to emails.
 
Having seen this same topic pop up again and again over the years, my personal opinion is that this is a company that makes high-quality products but is terrible at dealing with customers. Therefore I wouldn't recommend dealing with them directly at all. Instead I'd use a reputable distributor (Van's, Aircraft Spruce, etc) and would only purchase their standard, off-the-shelf products, no customization. Then if there's an issue getting ahold of what I ordered, it becomes the distributor's problem.
 
Southern Pete said:
You are not understanding the (lack of) buying power of experimental aviation, particularly in Europe. For companies to continue in business they must focus on servicing certified aviation, there just is not sufficient demand from the experimental sector to generate much profit and that demand is always one-off very specific requirements. Certified aviation (and perhaps Vans) buys batches of the same parts and are much easier to deal with. One buyer, significant order, unlikely to change his mind. Companies like Andair support experimental aviation because the owner has been involved for many years rather than it makes a lot of money... Their product support staff concentrate on their certified/commercial customers and address experimental questions when there is space in their schedule. To get their attention call them.
Click to expand...

Your point is? They've been approached numerous times about licensing, partnering, etc. If you choose to play in a particular sandbox, then do so.
 
mburch said:
Having seen this same topic pop up again and again over the years, my personal opinion is that this is a company that makes high-quality products but is terrible at dealing with customers. Therefore I wouldn't recommend dealing with them directly at all. Instead I'd use a reputable distributor (Van's, Aircraft Spruce, etc) and would only purchase their standard, off-the-shelf products, no customization. Then if there's an issue getting ahold of what I ordered, it becomes the distributor's problem.
Click to expand...

This has always been my approach to Andair’s fine products (of which I have several) - I buy from a distributor that has them in stock. It removes the frustration element at my end.
 
It’s been about a year ago now but I needed to change out the fittings on my Andair fuel valve and AS&S did not stock that item. An online order direct to Andair and a week later I had new fittings in hand direct from England.
 
Southern Pete said:
You are not understanding the (lack of) buying power of experimental aviation, particularly in Europe. For companies to continue in business they must focus on servicing certified aviation, there just is not sufficient demand from the experimental sector to generate much profit and that demand is always one-off very specific requirements. Certified aviation (and perhaps Vans) buys batches of the same parts and are much easier to deal with. One buyer, significant order, unlikely to change his mind. Companies like Andair support experimental aviation because the owner has been involved for many years rather than it makes a lot of money... Their product support staff concentrate on their certified/commercial customers and address experimental questions when there is space in their schedule. To get their attention call them.
Click to expand...

I understand it perfectly well, and it's no excuse. In fact, it's an insult that essentially says "well, your order is too small for us to be concerned about, so we're just going to ignore your inquiries. You'll get your product someday, whenever we decide to send it. Meanwhile, thanks for the money in our pocket!"

This is not uncommon with vendors in somewhat niche markets like this, but it doesn't make it right, it doesn't lessen the frustration of the PAYING customer, and it isn't that hard to fix: answer emails promptly, with honest information.

How freakin' hard is that?
 
One day the purchaser at that large “certified aerospace buyer” will be an experimental owner builder that remembers how poorly they have been served.
It’s a relatively niche industry. Treat one segment poorly regardless of size at your peril. Word gets around.
Great product. Ordinary customer service.
 
Called Them Today

After figuring out the tele numbering....

I called re an order from June, 22. They have in the q for anodizing. expect it to ship in 3 weeks. But it took 30 minutes or so for her to reply.

Calling is advisable.

additionally, to their credit, no payment until shipping.. so, there's that..
 
I usually chirp up when I see these threads.

As others have said, they are a small, high quality family run business and I will admit that their comms are not the best.

I ordered a specific duplex valve and even here, with me chasing, it took 9 months to arrive...... :eek:
 
I think at this stage everyone who has dealt with Andair understands how they operate and appreciates their problems.

However, I believe there are two things they could do which might help:

1. Amend the terms and conditions on their web site to reflect their actual practice. Not sure what the laws about this are in UK (open slather?), but in Australia they would at present be in breach of consumer law. Describing how they actually work would allow potential customers to decide beforehand whether to get involved in the process.

2. Particularly for more expensive items, don't charge the buyer's credit card until the item is ready for shipment. Or maybe, do like Van's and many other suppliers and only charge a deposit when the order is placed. I like Andair components, but not enough to give them an eleven month no-interest loan.

All of that said, I'd still buy Andair again, but knowing up front what might happen would make me schedule my purchases differently.
 
Newton SPRL

There is at least one other alternative - Newton Consulting SPRL.

They are also a small company, UK based, they sell through ACS and provide high quality parts for aerospace. One of their fuel cap models (the less expensive SPRL) has been the Van's standard on the RV-14 for a while and I believe is now the RV-10 standard too.

I recently ordered 5 sets of their beautiful Aero 300 caps for RV-10 and -14 ER tank builds. They were received here within two weeks of the order. I have their caps and duplex fuel valve in my RV-10.
 
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A cursory search in ACS showed the Newton valve was on out of stock indefinitely. The supply chain issue affects both of them.
 
I emailed them yesterday inquiring about missing faceplate and selector handle, and received a reply today how to order them on line, and was told both are available. 👍
 
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