What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Be careful what state you fly in to...

Low Pass

Low Pass

Well Known Member
Friend
http://www.nysun.com/news/states-aim-tax-private-jets-yachts

I know this has been discussed here and other places, but here's the story in a bit more "mainstream" outlet.

You land in the wrong state, you're liable to get a very, very big bill. Or at least a significant legal hassle sorting out the issue.

This kind of thing is just insane. I wonder if the general working population will have the nerve to do what it takes to "hop out of the boiling water" before we all get incrementally cooked by these taxing thieves...
 
I need to send an email to the Maine Tourism Board, governor, and Ellen
Schneiter to let them know that I have canceled plans to ever visit Maine because of this policy.

Even though it probably would not impact me, the principle of it is worth fighting.
 
I did just that--sent the governor's office an email telling them I was canceling my plans to visit Maine this year when I visit the northeast. They need to hear from others and realize they will lose more revenue from lost visitation business than they will gain from this rip off tax. Told them I didn't care that the tax did not apply to me; I didn't want to encourage any state to rip off visitors.

If Maine's policy of a sneak tax on unsuspecting visitors spreads, it would have a discouraging effect of travel. Next time, they'll tax your car, your fishing rods & your shorts, just because you didn't pay Maine sales tax but used them in Maine.
 
Take an economics class

I think there should be a baseline economics course that must be passed for any person that has the ability to make laws. If they knew of the laws of supply and demand, they would find out that grossly increasing the use tax will just limit the amount of people who are willing to fly into the state. Therefore, little to no revenue will be generated and they will back to trying to find new methods of generating revenue. SOOO one must conclude that either these people are really dumb or they have an alternate course. To keep aircraft out of the state except for the wealthy. Very similar to the gas tax we all faced over a year ago that would have shut down GA altogether. They wanted 5B in revenue but were willing to give up 20B to get it. Penny foolish I say.
The feds need to send Maine a bill for all of the money they have given to all of the airports to get them viable. They would not have a use tax if airplanes could not land there.
I live in Washington and they are trying really hard to tax and fee you into the poor house when it comes to flying. They charge to basically fly in this state by making you and your aircraft be registered. Plus they charge a lot of tax on AVgas that I don't ever think makes it to the end user (us).
This is why I have donated money to the AOPA to fight these kind of people off. They think that people who fly airplanes must be rich and should pay all kinds of money to fly.
The federal government needs to step in and exempt aircraft from state regulations or these states will just keep making up laws that phase us out of existence.
If they want to charge theses fees than it needs to be mandated that ALL of the funds generated need to go back into the aviation expenditures for that state.
I took governmental accounting in college and the main theme was they are not a business-they don't strive for profits. Their revenue that is generated must covered their planned expenditures for the period, nothing more. Our states are trying to be a business and generate profits.
 
Address?

RScott said:
I did just that--sent the governor's office an email telling them I was canceling my plans to visit Maine this year when I visit the northeast. They need to hear from others and realize they will lose more revenue from lost visitation business than they will gain from this rip off tax. Told them I didn't care that the tax did not apply to me; I didn't want to encourage any state to rip off visitors.

If Maine's policy of a sneak tax on unsuspecting visitors spreads, it would have a discouraging effect of travel. Next time, they'll tax your car, your fishing rods & your shorts, just because you didn't pay Maine sales tax but used them in Maine.
Click to expand...

Can you post the address?
Thanks in advance.

(Kind of disappointing because I HAD been planning to make a trip there in the next couple of years... no big loss as there is no shortage of other places to visit: 49 states, Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America, Caribbean.)
 
Here is my response

Today I read about Maine imposing a tax on some non-residents for flying into Maine. Quotes here are from that article.

http://www.nysun.com/news/states-aim-tax-private-jets-yachts

I understand that some states will do unwise things in an attempt to forcibly take people?s money but the apparent arrogance of Maine is insulting to me as a pilot and an American. I was planning a trip to Maine during fall foliage to see a beautiful state. That will not happen now as long as this anti-aviation taxation policy is in effect.

"There are a few non-residents who have been hit by this thing that have been understandably very upset," a spokesman for Maine Revenue Services, David Bauer, said. If your taxing policies are upsetting non-residents then fix the problem.

Then we have the comment from the Maine budget director, Ellen Schneiter: "Asked about the revenue lost by discouraging tourism, she said, "Most people don?t arrive in their own airplane.""

Ms Schneiter is probably correct....and you will get even fewer because of this policy.



Sent to the following (or web comment form):

1) Governor

http://www.maine.gov/governor/baldacci/contact/citizen_services/share_views.html


2) ellen schneiter

[email protected]


3) Tourism Board

http://www.visitmaine.com/contact.php


4) Aeronautics Dept

[email protected]
 
Hummmmmmm,

Did u all read the article....?

Does not apply

-to those that paid 5% to another state
-only applies in the 1st year after purchase.......

STILL SUCKS:mad:
 
Unconstitutional

I wonder if these laws could be challenged as unconstitutional violations of the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution -- i.e. that they are impediments to trade between the states. The Commerce Clause has been applied pretty broadly in the past, but in recent years the conservatives on the Rehnquist court have decreased its reach.

Are there any practicing attorneys in our midst? I am embarrassed to say that I really don't remember much about my constitutional law classes.
 
Had me worried for a minute. The "Maine" reason I decided on the RV-10 instead of the 9 was that we own property on Cape Jellison in Stocton Springs Maine and figure a 6 hour flight beats a 17 hour drive anyday with the ability to carry the same amount of luggage we bring in the car. Its good to know that the State of Maine will take into consideration that I already paid the State of Michigan their 6%. Very generous on their part.
 
It seems they think that if you own your own airplane your worth a few mill easy! ... I think I'll write a letter.
 
Absolutely baffled...

...I have to say, being English and living in NZ, that I am absolutely baffled by this whole situation. Obviously it doesn't affect me in the slightest, but I've been reading various reports and articles. It blows my mind completely that you can build a plane in one state, go for a quick trip into another state (in the same country!!) and then get walloped with a massive "puchase tax". I can understand the concept of the tax, but just not how it is set on a 'per state' basis and isn't a 'country-wide' rule (or not). Just weird. Of course, coming/living from two significantly smaller countries I guess it is just hard to get my head around...

I feel for you dudes... I just can't imagine the shock of flying out for that $100 hamburger only to be advised a few weeks later that it actually is going to cost $10,000 (or whatever!). Harsh, man, too harsh... :(
 
States rights?

AntiGravity said:
...I have to say, being English and living in NZ, that I am absolutely baffled by this whole situation. Obviously it doesn't affect me in the slightest, but I've been reading various reports and articles. It blows my mind completely that you can build a plane in one state, go for a quick trip into another state (in the same country!!) and then get walloped with a massive "puchase tax". I can understand the concept of the tax, but just not how it is set on a 'per state' basis and isn't a 'country-wide' rule (or not). Just weird. Of course, coming/living from two significantly smaller countries I guess it is just hard to get my head around...

I feel for you dudes... I just can't imagine the shock of flying out for that $100 hamburger only to be advised a few weeks later that it actually is going to cost $10,000 (or whatever!). Harsh, man, too harsh... :(
Click to expand...

Jeff,
I'm not going to defend the US tax system nor go into a long winded civics lesson on why states act the way they do, but I'm afraid that some people are over-playing this a little. As was stated in an earlier post about the issue in Maine:

Does not apply to those that paid 5% (or more) to another state
-only applies in the 1st year after purchase.......

So most of us are off the hook already. I am interested in how a state can collect tax from a non-resident. I seem to remember a little hubbub with the POMS* involving tea and Boston Harbor over taxation without representation. What this situation needs is for Maine officials to try it with the "wrong" person. A bucks-up attorney with a shiny new bizjet might provide some interesting theatre.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

* Pom-noun:- A person from England, probably derived from Prisoner Of Mother England.
 
The method rather than the deed

Oh I have no 'problem' with taxation in general (discounting that just like everyone else I don't actually want to pay any, and if I do I want it to be as little as possible!). Its more that one state can decide to impose such a tax on someone and something (the plane) that did not originate within that state when the state of residence does not have such a requirement. As mentioned elsewhere, the likely result of such state-by-state laws is [presumably] some states being favoured and others being boycotted. Surely not good for America as a whole. I know different states have different financial lanscapes, committments and requirements, but I just wonder at whether a policy like this one is the best approach.

I also wonder how/if one state can legally recover such tax from someone who resides in another state and when the object in question (the plane) 'resides' with the person in that other state. If so, what is to stop this practice becoming more widespread. It can't be good. People will simply stop going to these places. If sales/purchase tax on an aircraft is to be paid, perhaps it should be mandated that all states should (or should not, os decided) impose such a tax so that non-residents can't be financially hijacked for simply visiting a place? That, or it should be mandated that states can only collect from their residents; that way they live or die on their own decisions and policies.

I admit, I do not greatly understand economics, or politics, and I tend to stay away from both as much as possible. I just find this situation odd as an outside observer. If I suddenly got walloped with a huge bill because I visited some place I'm sure I would protest loudly.

I wonder [fanciful situation not to betaken seriously or literally]; if I built my RV in NZ, did the test flying, then flew it to Oshkosh via a Maine stopover [and no, I don't know American geography so I don't know if that is likely or not] within the first year whether they would try to sting me too!

Anyways, I hope this all works out for you guys. It'll be interesting to see whether there's enough pressure for Maine to reverse or modify this policy.
 
Maine

AntiGravity said:
I wonder [fanciful situation not to betaken seriously or literally]; if I built my RV in NZ, did the test flying, then flew it to Oshkosh via a Maine stopover [and no, I don't know American geography so I don't know if that is likely or not] within the first year whether they would try to sting me too!
Click to expand...

That I would like to see! My guess is that the Maine officials would go nuts trying to figure out what state ZK-JRV was from. Seriously, I think the real underlying story on this silliness has to do with laws and rules passed to try to prevent real residents of a state from trying to avoid paying the tax. There are several law firms that do nothing but provide council on to avoid, legally, paying sales tax on vehicles. Here is an example in California:
http://www.aeromarinetaxpros.com

Problem is, some of the rules like Maine's have backfired and are being used in a manner that wasn't really intended when the rule was written. This problem will go away when some politico figures out that they are losing more than they are collecting.

John "I paid the tax in California, thank you" Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Not that I can blame them because.....

Not that I can blame them because.....the precedent was set with professional teams that traveled to various states. The states started charging them "income tax" on the income they made while playing games in the collecting state. Not being a baseball or other pro player I don't know how the income tax in the home of record state was paid. Maine has taken it one step further!

I wrote the Gov. a note to not look for me in his state because he has effectively started a policy of taxation for boats and aircraft that he would not wish to have imposed on himself. I stated that subordinates follow the role of leadership and I really did not wish to deal with services from state agencies where the subordinates have that attitude as a role model.
 
Sounds like to me the days a plane is at a certain location is measured through VFR and IFR flight plans. You are then persuaded to fly to other states with no flight plans which is the wrong thing to do.
 
Last edited:
This is financial rape, and every pilot should boycot, whether he/she is liable for the tax or not. I guess it doesn't do any good to boycot the state, if the officials don't know they're being boycotted. So I'm sending a letter.
 
What's next?

I agree, just AVOID Maine totally as there are many other great places to go in the USA.

However, the bigger question is what will be their next focus for revenue collection? I think they see us as a small unique group of wealthy airplane owners without much clout or public sympathy to fight back effectively (AOPA not withstanding).What would happen if they decided to go after all out of state automobiles under the same guidelines and premise? Many high end cars are in the 40K - 100K range. What if someone from New Hampshire (no state sales tax) visited Maine for more than twenty days and was slapped with the same tax consequence of 5% of value. I think the answer is obvious... all **** would break loose and they would most likely back off.

Maine is obviously a very unfriendly place for aircraft owners and their perception of us is "easy pickins." with no fear of a fight.

My 2 pennies
Mike
 
this is what I sent

Dear Mrs. Schneiter,
Just a quick note to inform you that as an aviation enthusiast and private pilot, I will make a point to never visit Maine or encourage any of my acquaintances to do so.
This in response to the unfair taxation policy that politician in the State of Maine have decided to impose on private airplane owners visiting that State within the first year of ownership of their airplane.
Regards,

also sent to the governor and to the Dept of tourism
 
Shouldn't these notes and letters also go to a major newspaper or maybe a newspaper in a toursit area in the state so they get some wider circulation?

The politicians really don't care about us out of staters since we don't vote for them but get the locals upset that us "rich pilot types" aren't coming to their state to spend our money and maybe, just maybe, they will change their draconian laws.

BTW, whatever happened to the idea that taxation without representation was not fair?
 
Good point Bill

I have some contact info on the first page. I need to find a major newspaper and email them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top