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2021. RV15?

Jaypratt

Well Known Member
Mentor
Happy New Year everyone!
I hope we get lots of blue sky flying days in 2021.
Also I hope to finish and fly my third RV8 this year. 2020 found me without an RV to fly. It was a long year,,,,,,
In the past,,, I have tried to be the first of the year to donate to this web site, but I didn’t stay awake past 12:00 so donated a little while ago.. I send 4xs the requested amount,,, In case some don’t
This new RV8 I’m building will be my 6 th home built, probably my last,,,, unless ,,,,,, Van’s develops a RV15,,
My design preferences ..
Looks like a C170 / 172,, that will cruse 150 mph.
Have sticks
Have 180- 220 hp
Big baggage door
Struts
2+2 seating
My reserved N # for the new RV8 ‘Borrowed Horse’ is N6YH. (Ya Hoo)
There is a story behind the YaHoo. ! Ask me about it next Time we meet.
I hope we have Sun N Fun and Oshkosh this year. See you there!
 
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Happy New Year Jay and Carol

Thanks for all your help and friendship over the years Jay!

Planning to see you at Hicks and Osh 2021!

Carl
..
 
Yep - 2021 will be my last RV build as well, another RV-10.

What I wish for the RV-15 - an updated RV-10. Such as:
- A redesigned cowl, following lessons learned from the updated RV-14 cowl. I believe there is opportunity for reducing drag.
- The new cowl to have a 14” spinner. The 13” spinner is just out of proportion on the RV-10.
- The new cowl to support a horizontal injection IO-540.
- Redesigned doors that open up and forward, like a Cirrus (less likely to be blown away).
- Redesigned main gear wheel pants (or just buy them from James Cowl). The current ones are way too wide.
- Option to upgrade the brakes.

Carl
 
Ok, since we are doing yet another RV-x thread -

Needs to be an updated Rocket. 2 passenger, tandem, tapered wing for high altitude performance, good baggage capacity, extreme seating comfort, lots of fuel - a no compromise "personal airliner". As long as we're at it, lets design it around the TSIO-550 engine so we can decimate yet another used engine pool.
 
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Ok, since we are doing yet another RV-x thread -

Needs to be an updated Rocket. 2 passenger, tandem, tapered wing for high altitude performance, good baggage capacity, extreme seating comfort, lots of fuel - a no compromise "personal airliner". As long as we're at it, lets design it around the TSIO-550 engine so we can decimate yet another used engine pool.

Are you kidding me? 360 hp in a 2 seater? Do you want to beat Elon Musk to the moon?
 
Are you kidding me? 360 hp in a 2 seater? Do you want to beat Elon Musk to the moon?

My Rocket makes 336 on the dyno and its not nearly enough - so yes, 360 at altitude sounds reasonable to me. Id like to flight plan for 250 KTAS loaded, with 5 hours legal fuel
 
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Happy New Year

Happy New Year, Jay. Get that -8 in the air. I just donated to the site as well, more than requested as usual. We think alike. Gotta keep Doug in business.

Chris
 
Happy New Year Jay! Your post helped remind me, so I made my donation today. Always nice to be able to update my donation year in my signature. Glad to be here... glad we're all here. As I just told Doug: "Onward, into the fog..."
(I wonder if anyone reading these words knows the source of that quote...) ;)
 
Happy New Year everyone!
I hope we get lots of blue sky flying days in 2021. My design preferences ..
Looks like a C170 / 172,, that will cruse 150 mph.
Have sticks
Have 180- 220 hp
Big baggage door
Struts
2+2 seating
!

Why would you WANT struts? I’m thinking no struts, cantilever wings like on current RVs, 170 knots, 4 place, tailwheel, (with a nosewheel option for the impaired)
 
Ok, since we are doing yet another RV-x thread -

Needs to be an updated Rocket. 2 passenger, tandem, tapered wing for high altitude performance, good baggage capacity, extreme seating comfort, lots of fuel - a no compromise "personal airliner". As long as we're at it, lets design it around the TSIO-550 engine so we can decimate yet another used engine pool.

You forgot the retractable gear option. You really need it at those speeds.

Skylor
 
Yep - 2021 will be my last RV build as well, another RV-10.

What I wish for the RV-15 - an updated RV-10. Such as:
- A redesigned cowl, following lessons learned from the updated RV-14 cowl. I believe there is opportunity for reducing drag.
- The new cowl to have a 14” spinner. The 13” spinner is just out of proportion on the RV-10.
- The new cowl to support a horizontal injection IO-540.
- Redesigned doors that open up and forward, like a Cirrus (less likely to be blown away).
- Redesigned main gear wheel pants (or just buy them from James Cowl). The current ones are way too wide.
- Option to upgrade the brakes.

Carl

I'll second the door mod.
 
RV15

Why would you WANT struts? I’m thinking no struts, cantilever wings like on current RVs, 170 knots, 4 place, tailwheel, (with a nosewheel option for the impaired)

My thought on the ideal Bush plane is the Cessna 180. I have owned one since 2009. That said,,,,,
The C172 is probably the most successful airplane ever. If I was the most successful kit company in the world, I would copy another success and put my spin on it. But! The 170 / 172 is under powered.
If There were a kit plane that would fill the gap in kit planes like I think there is.
My idea would sell.
The 180 is a bit big to build
The 170 conversions with larger hp engines are rare and,,, certified...
Mimic success and fill a void and hit a grand slam home run.
Rans has a great kit in the Rans 21. Too small
Bear Hawk,,? Nope,, fabrics , needs a 6 cylinder
Glass Star? Double nope,, friends don’t let friends fly glass airplanes
Struts are needed to tye stuff on, push on. My plane needs struts.
 
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You forgot the retractable gear option. You really need it at those speeds.

Skylor

I agree with Jay. My Super Rebel is great, but like the 180, it’s big and has 6 cyl engine. I like the comfort and power but it was a challenging build. Something with power that burns less gas. A back seat is mandatory. Need it for the dog to ride on and to load up for the Oshkosh adventures.

Land in the Utah backcountry and you’ll understand the need for struts to push on. Many of the strips have some soft sand in parking and camping areas.
 
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I'd like to see a back country RV. STOL, big wheels, good useful load. Not saying I'd buy the kit today but it would probably be my second build if I ever did a second build. My in-progress -7A is likely going to be a hangared asphalt queen its entire life.
 
My thought on the ideal Bush plane is the Cessna 180. I have owned one since 2009. That said,,,,,
The C172 is probably the most successful airplane ever. If I was the most successful kit company in the world, I would copy another success and put my spin on it. But! The 170 / 172 is under powered.
If There were a kit plane that would fill the gap in kit planes like I think there is.
My idea would sell.
The 180 is a bit big to build
The 170 conversions with larger hp engines are rare and,,, certified...
Mimic success and fill a void and hit a grand slam home run.
Rans has a great kit in the Rans 21. Too small
Bear Hawk,,? Nope,, fabrics , needs a 6 cylinder
Glass Star? Double nope,, friends don’t let friends fly glass airplanes
Struts are needed to tye stuff on, push on. My plane needs struts.

You just described the Dream Tundra. Designed about a dozen years ago. They sold about 36 kits, and there didn’t seem to be any more demand. About 18 have flown. Nothing wrong with it except the usual growing pains of a low-serial-number design. So the question you have to ask yourself is...why didn’t they sell better? If that design is so in demand, why is the company for sale, with no takers?

Actual, honest questions....

Paul
 
My thought on the ideal Bush plane is the Cessna 180. I have owned one since 2009. That said,,,,,
The C172 is probably the most successful airplane ever. If I was the most successful kit company in the world, I would copy another success and put my spin on it. But! The 170 / 172 is under powered.
If There were a kit plane that would fill the gap in kit planes like I think there is.
My idea would sell.
The 180 is a bit big to build
The 170 conversions with larger hp engines are rare and,,, certified...
Mimic success and fill a void and hit a grand slam home run.
Rans has a great kit in the Rans 21. Too small
Bear Hawk,,? Nope,, fabrics , needs a 6 cylinder
Glass Star? Double nope,, friends don’t let friends fly glass airplanes
Struts are needed to tye stuff on, push on. My plane needs struts.

We seem to get by without struts on the low wings... could you imagine Pawnee style struts on an RV-4 or -8? Ewww! I. All about the high wing stol type plane, maybe someone could build those cargo pods to hang under the wing on hard points? Aerodynamic rifle cases? Put one of those collapsing tail pushing tubes on the sides of the fuselage like an L-19 bird dog.. but lose the struts for speed! Hey, we all have opinions, right?
 
You just described the Dream Tundra. Designed about a dozen years ago. They sold about 36 kits, and there didn’t seem to be any more demand. About 18 have flown. Nothing wrong with it except the usual growing pains of a low-serial-number design. So the question you have to ask yourself is...why didn’t they sell better? If that design is so in demand, why is the company for sale, with no takers?

Actual, honest questions....

Paul


Could it have been something about company/customer support?
 
RV-15

Happy New Year to all

Paul
''You just described the Dream Tundra.''

We build some good stuff North of the Border sometimes but we have a tendency to give them away :rolleyes::eek: ( The C-Series been a prime example :mad::mad:

Bruno
 
Pilots are never satisfied, always wanting a little more power, a little more room, a little more (insert alphabet here) be grateful you own the most sucsesful exp built machines ever as they are!
Everything we fly is a trade off, even in the Airline world, it's ALL about mission, pick one & stick to it!:D
 
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What would be really cool is a 6-place plane with four removable seats, like a cross between an RV-10 and a Piper Saratoga. Imagine a 1000lb cargo capacity in a two-seater.... I doubt I'll ever see this happen for pretty obvious reasons but I don't think you can deny it would be very cool. :D

Kit price: $205,000
Time to build: 3300 hours

(Note the above numbers are based on my best guess, not anything from Van's :p)
 
Jay, you described the Cyclone 180, a Cessna 180 clone kit from the 1990s. They are no longer available. I suppose there's not a great demand for them relatively speaking, any more than there was for the Tundra. Although there's a lot of expressed desire for a Cub-C180 sort of airplane in these pages, I think Van's knows their market niche.

A while ago I described how a moderately changed RV-9 would fill the bush plane gap and still get somewhat near the current speeds. I still think that something like that would be a heck of a plane.

Dave
 
What would be really cool is a 6-place plane with four removable seats, like a cross between an RV-10 and a Piper Saratoga. Imagine a 1000lb cargo capacity in a two-seater.... I doubt I'll ever see this happen for pretty obvious reasons but I don't think you can deny it would be very cool. :D

Kit price: $205,000
Time to build: 3300 hours

(Note the above numbers are based on my best guess, not anything from Van's :p)



Sounds like the new Bearhawk 5..............
 
Sounds like the new Bearhawk 5..............

I was looking hard at the Bearhawk 5 for more useful load but my enthusiasm has waned after looking in-person at its little brother the Bearhawk 4-place. They are fantastic aircraft but are cramped compared to my RV-10 and way more difficult to get in and out of. Plus I’d prefer a tricycle gear configuration which they don’t offer.

If Vans came out with something 182/206ish I’d sell my 10 in a heartbeat.
 
The Bearhawk 5 is a bit wider the the 4-place Bearhawk.

I know—2 inches at the pilot seat. The cabin is 14 inches longer and the fuse is 24” longer overall than the 4-place. With a GW of 3000 a builder can see between 1400 to 1500 lbs useful loads without too much trouble. But there is only one flying (the prototype) and I won’t be able to see it until Osh. My concern is that even though it’s bigger than the 4-place the dimensions for the rear seats aren’t much different and in the 4-place the rear seats, especially, the headroom is tight. It’s also a bit of a kabuki dance to get in and out of the front seats and the rear seats are worse yet because of the deck angle due to the fact it’s a taildragger.
 
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So lets ask a basic question:
IS Vans coming out with a new model?

I think that's the question of the decade. Since 1980, Van's has released a new model an average of every 5 years or so. The most recent models came out 5 and 8 years ago so I have a feeling that Van's have something cooking, though don't forget that the pandemic likely has put a hold on everything and it'll probably take over a year from now for them just to clear their backlog of orders (especially QB's) let alone get the ball rolling again on a new project.

unknown.png
 
The graph seems to show a real spurt of activity 2001-2004- 7,9,10 right after each other?

What drove that, was there a larger engineering department then, or some other factor. Seems to have been a super productive period.
 
I think that's the question of the decade. Since 1980, Van's has released a new model an average of every 5 years or so. The most recent models came out 5 and 8 years ago so I have a feeling that Van's have something cooking, though don't forget that the pandemic likely has put a hold on everything and it'll probably take over a year from now for them just to clear their backlog of orders (especially QB's) let alone get the ball rolling again on a new project.

The RV-6 is by no means an outdated design. It was simply replaced because the -7 could be built with already prepunched and prefabbed part from the RV-8 & -9, making it easier to kit and to build.
 
The RV-6 is by no means an outdated design. It was simply replaced because the -7 could be built with already prepunched and prefabbed part from the RV-8 & -9, making it easier to kit and to build.

I loved our RV6 and actually felt it handled a bit better than the one 7 I flew. A well built 6 is the bargain in the vans lineup if purchasing a already built aircraft.
 
I've been patiently waiting for a Van's bush plane, figuring it was the next logical niche to fill. D.R. has also been querying the members about interest in such an aircraft, with many interested builders chiming in. I however cannot wait any longer for a "possible" aircraft, therefore I have ordered a Javron Super Cub kit due for delivery in June. The Javron will replace my 1941 90hp J3 as a backcountry fun machine on wheels, skis and floats. After building 2 RV's I don't think the minimal sheet metal work will be a problem, but fabric covering will be a new experience for me.
 
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I however cannot wait any longer for a "possible" aircraft, therefore I have ordered a Javron Super Cub kit due for delivery in June. The Javron will replace my 1941 90hp J3 as a backcountry fun machine on wheels, skis and floats.

The Javron factory is located here. Our EAA chapter just toured their factory about 2 weeks ago. The attention to detail is impressive, as is the seriousness and professionalism of the folks working there.
 
The RV-6 is by no means an outdated design. It was simply replaced because the -7 could be built with already prepunched and prefabbed part from the RV-8 & -9, making it easier to kit and to build.

Rather than say the RV-6 is outdated, say it's been superceded by the 7


:D

I know it's not outdated per se, just as the RV-12 is not outdated just because the 12iS came out; the models were just superseded/updated. Looking back I think I'll replace "current" and "outdated" with "currently produced" and "discontinued". No offense intended to the owners of these planes, just a poor choice of verbiage on my part. :)

BTW, this chart is on Wikipedia.

unknown.png
 
So lets ask a basic question:
IS Vans coming out with a new model?

So... We've answered this one before on the forums, at OSH, etc. :)

Yes.

When? When it's ready. These things take time. More time than almost anyone realizes, really.

My money is on YES. Van’s reserved a group of N numbers a year or so ago, which play on “15” and “XV.” Such as N215XV, etc.

You, sir, are quite observant.
 
Vans have covered pretty much everything most would ever need apart from say a bush plane but the market is already flooded with same.
Bang for buck you can't beat a Vans especially a proper one, conventional U/C -)
 
More proof that you can’t believe everything you read on the internet.....

The RV-9 came before the RV-7

I made that chart off the Wikipedia pages for the planes, going by date of introduction, not date of first flight. I made it to be a general reference to when new models tend to have come out as I've never seen a timeline like that anywhere; it's not necessarily 100% accurate.

Looking at the Wayback Machine it seems that BOTH the -7 and -9 started being sold in the first couple months of 2001. If you have a more-accurate list of exact dates of when kits first started selling then I'd be happy to update it accordingly :)
 
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I made that chart off the Wikipedia pages for the planes, going by date of introduction, not date of first flight. I made it to be a general reference to when new models tend to have come out as I've never seen a timeline like that anywhere; it's not necessarily 100% accurate.

Looking at the Wayback Machine it seems that BOTH the -7 and -9 started being sold in the first couple months of 2001. If you have a more-accurate list of exact dates of when kits first started selling then I'd be happy to update it accordingly :)

You are correct about the introduction date of the RV-9, because the tail dragger version was introduced a couple years after the 9A tri-gear (initially there was no plan to offer a tail dragged version).
 
Threads Died

So all the RV15 threads have died. Some say when the rumors stop, then the truth comes out.

So it must be true. The real RV15 is coming out at Osh 2021? Can we at least get a confirmation of that????

Edit:just re read the forum. Vans did state there is a RV15, but did not give a date, just “When it is ready”

So the cat is out of the bag from post 40.

My bad, I have already started saving my kids lunch money, sorry kids you dont need lunch, wait till dinner.
 
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I posted a YouTube video while back where one of the Vans engineers mentioned a -15 and -16 model during a conversation about the delays. Kind of felt unintentional as he kept going without anyone stopping the interview for more clarification.
 
I don't know what a future RV15 will be, but I have to assume that Van's is looking towards electric propulsion for some future model. I believe there is a market for an RV12 sized vehicle with one to two hours of flight time for the flight training & recreational market. Pipstral (Alpha) and Bye (eFlyer) both have aircraft flying and are ready for customer deliveries, and this seems to be an area where a solid design can own the market. RV15...maybe not. RV20...why not?
 
electric

I cant see an electric airplane being feasible or practical at this time. For one thing, my hangar barely has enough electricity to run my compressor, forget about trying to charge a airplane. second, there are only 3 airports within a electric airplane's range. and I can literally walk back home in the time it will take to charge a plane with the power available at those airports.

Heck, we cant even figure out how to make an unleaded avgas after 30 years of unleaded autogas, so it looks like electric airplanes are 20 years behind Tesla. JMHO.
 
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