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GNS430W upgrade to IFD440...how "plug-and-play" is it?

MacCool

Well Known Member
My -9A has a GNS430W navigator, in conjunction with an AFS 5400 EFIS, an AFS 3500 for moving map, and a G5 for dissimilar backup. Autopilot is an AFS/Tru-Trak Digiflight II, switchable from either the 5400 or the 430W. Connection to the 5400 is via an AFS ARINC 429. The 430W is also feeding GPS to the G5 from an available serial connection.

This arrangement works well, but obviously the 430W is getting a little long in the tooth, not to mention a little arcane in the interface department, as is customary for most Garmin products. I'm contemplating upgrading that 430W to an Avidyne IFD440 while the 430W still has some trade-in value.

The IFD440 is advertised as a "direct slide-in" replacement for that GNS430W. I realize that it would be too much to hope for that "direct slide-in replacement" is the same as "plug and play", but for those of you that have done this particular, or a similar, swap, what all would I likely have to do behind the panel? Lots of re-pinning connectors? Comonent compatibility issues? Panel modifications? Antenna compatibility? Configuration pitfalls?

My AFS 5400 was an upgrade from a 4500s It was a "direct-slide-in replacement" and fit the panel nicely, but it was far from "plug-and-play". No doubt I'll have to do something with that 430W sooner or later, but I'm curious to know what I might be in for doing that upgrade.

TIA for any guidance...
 
Very Simple Upgrade

I upgraded my 430 to a IFD440 about 18 months ago and am very happy with the IFD. Since mine was not a waas I had to upgrade my antenna and cable as well.

Other than the antenna upgrade the unit was a simple slide in and input of the settings. Be sure to take pictures of all your setup screens on your 430 before you remove it, then simply input those settings into the IFD.

I have a GRT EFIS, GRT ARINC, and trutrak Vision A/P with a switch to drive the A/P from either the EFIS or IFD, I didn’t have to change anything on either one. I am not sure about the AFS so you should contact them to verify any changes needed. As for the G5 I have no experience with that interface.

Link to the write up Regarding the upgrade:

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=177417
 
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I slid it in, and get into the setup mode and set the various languages and speeds in about 5 minutes and they were talking to each other - easy as that.

The Avidyne manual tells you to (and more importantly tells you HOW to) get into the Setup mode in the 430W and record the data you need, then get into the IFD440 setup mode and insert that data. Literally a 5-minute process.
 
Another Vote for “inserted Allen wrench to remove 430W, inserted Allen wrench to insert IFD440”, then update settings to match what you took out, and it worked. I have done this on two of my airplanes, and didn’t have any issues.

Paul
 
I have been looking at doing the change out to the IFD440 and spoke with five avionics shops. All five, while not dissing the IFD440 said they saw more repair issues with it than the GNS650 or the older GNS 430W.
With that said, I'm curious about those who made the switch to the IFD 440 and their long term experience.

Also I believe you still have to add an additional wire if you wish to display weather on the IFD440 from an ADS-B in such as a Garmin 345.
 
Put a GPS antenna on your G5 to make sure it gets the right kind of GPS data that supports its internal attitude aiding. Normally, the way you have it set up now, it would use MapMX GPS data from your GNS 430W, but MapMX is a proprietary Garmin protocol that the IFD won't have. That can be solved by using a simple glareshield antenna on your G5.
 
Also I believe you still have to add an additional wire if you wish to display weather on the IFD440 from an ADS-B in such as a Garmin 345.

My weather from the EchoUAT is displayed on the EFISes...don't really need it or want it on the navigator.



Put a GPS antenna on your G5 to make sure it gets the right kind of GPS data that supports its internal attitude aiding. Normally, the way you have it set up now, it would use MapMX GPS data from your GNS 430W, but MapMX is a proprietary Garmin protocol that the IFD won't have. That can be solved by using a simple glareshield antenna on your G5.
Great tip, thanks. I have a GA26 for the G5, but never attached it. It was more useful to have my track from the 430W displayed on on the G5 so I just stopped there when I stumbled on an unused serial connection. I'll have to think about that. I'll need something because I did not install the magnetometer.

Between the navigator, the AFS5400, the 430W, the G5, iPad, and iPhone...well...I have no excuse for getting lost.



.
 
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My upgrade from 430W to IFD440 took less than an hour. Probably less than 30 minutes. This was done the day before I flew from KHIO to 2018 Airventure. A couple of small differences between the 430W and IFD440:
-The IFD440 draws a little more power on one of the inputs and may need a bigger fuse. Comm? Might not need to upsize a breaker.
-The IFD440 has cooling fans on the sides. My avionics rack HAD solid sides. After my IFD440 overheated a couple of times I opened the sides of my rack to match the openings of the 430W rack and have not had cooling issues.
-To be able to listen to the standby frequency of the IFD440 an additional wire to the audio panel is required. This feature does not work the same way as a Garmin SL30 or SL40.
-There are probably other features in the IFD440 that did not exist in the 430W that would need additional wiring to be able to use to full advantage.

I got to fly from KHIO to Alaska with a friend in his Barron in August of 2019. I was in charge of entering flight plans and comm tuning the GNS530W and Garmin 650 in the Barron. I MUCH PREFER the IFD440 user interface.

My instrument panel has similar components as the OP's and the IFD440 works as well or better than the 430W did. I don't remember the 430W getting fuel computer information from the AFS5600, but the IFD440 does. Flight plan entry is very similar between the IFD and the AFS. The separate keyboard is cool. Having another instantiation of the IFD on the iPad is GREAT and can be the larger IFD540. There are probably more advantages that I'm not thinking of at this time.

Regards,
 
-The IFD440 draws a little more power on one of the inputs and may need a bigger fuse. [/QUOTE said:
If the IFD draws more power and is popping the fuse, and if the fuse is sized correctly for the wire, please don't just change the fuse to a higher amperage unless you also change the wires to match the fuse. Fuses are for protecting wires, not equipment, and I hear in flight fire is not a good thing.
 
MapMX

Put a GPS antenna on your G5 to make sure it gets the right kind of GPS data that supports its internal attitude aiding. Normally, the way you have it set up now, it would use MapMX GPS data from your GNS 430W, but MapMX is a proprietary Garmin protocol that the IFD won't have. That can be solved by using a simple glareshield antenna on your G5.

Actually, the IFD440 supports the MapMX data protocol just fine. I use it to feed both my G5 and a Garmin GDU-375 (non-G3X) MFD.
 
Actually, the IFD440 supports the MapMX data protocol just fine. I use it to feed both my G5 and a Garmin GDU-375 (non-G3X) MFD.

I'm glad to hear that. I just finished installing an Aera 760 to replace the 696 that was in the plane when I bought it. In the process, I added a serial line from my 430W to get MapMX into the 760. When the budget allows, I'm considering an Avidyne 440 to swap in for the 430W. I was wondering if the MapMX would work well if I did that. I saw from the Avidyne manual that it was available but was unsure of how well it worked.
 
I had a GTx 345 in my rocket, it required another wire run from the transponder to the GPS as the GPS only uses RS422 in and not 232. That particular wire was in a connector not used, so I needed a bunch of parts to make it work. And it still isn’t talking between everything properly. The tech support doesn’t seem to be setup like Garmin when it comes to experimental. I received a lot of push back from them in regards to a new pitot static check required (ok, cool, stop telling me now), and I received a bunch of “well talk to your installer”.

I gave up and ordered a new 650xi. My brain speaks Garmin much better. I was able to figure out how to use the 440 but it was super clunky IMO
 
I have been looking at doing the change out to the IFD440 and spoke with five avionics shops. All five, while not dissing the IFD440 said they saw more repair issues with it than the GNS650 or the older GNS 430W.
With that said, I'm curious about those who made the switch to the IFD 440 and their long term experience.

Also I believe you still have to add an additional wire if you wish to display weather on the IFD440 from an ADS-B in such as a Garmin 345.

I have owned a IFD540 since they introduced it. No issues whatsoever.
Garmin TXP45R does not accept the GPS portion form IFD so plan on getting a Garmin position source device if you mix equipment.
 
Does the IFD440 feed flight plan data to a Garmin 760? I see it mentioned the IFD supports the MapMX protocol, just wanted to make sure there wouldnt be any surprises if transitioning from 430w + 696 to IFD440 + 760.
 
Does the IFD440 feed flight plan data to a Garmin 760? I see it mentioned the IFD supports the MapMX protocol, just wanted to make sure there wouldnt be any surprises if transitioning from 430w + 696 to IFD440 + 760.

I feed my garmin gdu-375 (not part of a G3X system) this way from my IFD440. Works perfectly. Don't see why it wouldn't work with the 760.
 
My -9A has a GNS430W navigator, in conjunction with an AFS 5400 EFIS, an AFS 3500 for moving map, and a G5 for dissimilar backup. Autopilot is an AFS/Tru-Trak Digiflight II, switchable from either the 5400 or the 430W. Connection to the 5400 is via an AFS ARINC 429. The 430W is also feeding GPS to the G5 from an available serial connection.

This arrangement works well, but obviously the 430W is getting a little long in the tooth, not to mention a little arcane in the interface department, as is customary for most Garmin products. I'm contemplating upgrading that 430W to an Avidyne IFD440 while the 430W still has some trade-in value.

The IFD440 is advertised as a "direct slide-in" replacement for that GNS430W. I realize that it would be too much to hope for that "direct slide-in replacement" is the same as "plug and play", but for those of you that have done this particular, or a similar, swap, what all would I likely have to do behind the panel? Lots of re-pinning connectors? Comonent compatibility issues? Panel modifications? Antenna compatibility? Configuration pitfalls?

My AFS 5400 was an upgrade from a 4500s It was a "direct-slide-in replacement" and fit the panel nicely, but it was far from "plug-and-play". No doubt I'll have to do something with that 430W sooner or later, but I'm curious to know what I might be in for doing that upgrade.

TIA for any guidance...
Well, I did pull the trigger on an IFD440 the other day, and just in the nick of time apparently, according to Stein. The "supply chain" almost bit me in the ***, twice, and hard. A couple of weeks ago, Stein had hooked me up with a VAF'r, great guy, who was looking to switch out his almost-new IFD440 for a Garmin 650, but he had to cancel that deal when Garmin more-or-less suspended shipments and yanked his new navigator right out from under him. I then called Stein back and he ordered me a new IFD440. Apparently that was literally the day before Avidyne increased their price by $1500 and announced suspension of shipments due to the supply chain constraints. If any of you have ever worked with Steinair...you know of their exemplary customer service. Great company to work with.

My IFD440 is delivered tomorrow, so it looks like I'll get the chance to answer my own question in the OP when I pull my GNS430W (black 12/24v) and "plug and play" (we'll see...) the IFD440.


ETA: As a bonus, which I didn't realize, Minnesota apparently has classified all avionics as sales-tax exempt, which saves me an additional $1000 since Stein and I are both located in that state.
 
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Settings…

Remember to take photos of the settings on the 430 before you remove it, you will need those for the IFD.
 
The only issue we had was getting the Avidyne to 'engage' into the G*rmin tray. If it won't - get a good steel rule and broddle around with the screw latch mechanism, sometimes they don't screw in as they should.

Once in - as others said - perfect.

Check settings from previous snaps and crack on - a really nice unit and so happy to be away from Fishfinders Inc......:p
 
My buddy, who is pretty smart about avionics, mentioned that one problem I might have is having to do a little re-pinning to get the IFD440 connected properly to my GMA340 audio panel. Anyone have some experience with that configuration?
 
My buddy, who is pretty smart about avionics, mentioned that one problem I might have is having to do a little re-pinning to get the IFD440 connected properly to my GMA340 audio panel. Anyone have some experience with that configuration?

I have replaced a couple of 430W’s with 440’s, and the audio worked just fine with my standard GMA audio panels. However, there is supposedly the capability to use the “standby monitor” function in the 440 that I have been told ONLY works with the Avidyne audio panel. Since i have two Comms in both airplanes in which I have these installations, researching and figuring out of there is a way to make that function with a GMA has never risen high enough on my priority list …. That might be what your buddy is talking about?

In any case, slide the unit in and it SHOULD work the same as the 430W was working.

Paul
 
I have replaced a couple of 430W’s with 440’s, and the audio worked just fine with my standard GMA audio panels. However, there is supposedly the capability to use the “standby monitor” function in the 440 that I have been told ONLY works with the Avidyne audio panel. Since i have two Comms in both airplanes in which I have these installations, researching and figuring out of there is a way to make that function with a GMA has never risen high enough on my priority list …. That might be what your buddy is talking about?

In any case, slide the unit in and it SHOULD work the same as the 430W was working.

Paul

Thanks Flight. I think that's exactly what he was talking about.
 
The install was pretty straightforward as ya'll suggested. It took about 20 minutes including the configuration. The settings weren't exactly the same as the 430, but pretty close. Comms work great, but by the time I got the thing installed and the battery changed on the ELT, I was cold enough that I didn't feel like dragging it outside so it could see satellites and if it knew what to do with them. It did give me a magenta line to home, but it was from Melbourne, Florida. Somewhere, I also missed the setting to configure wifi and turn bluetooth on so I didn't set up the keyboard nor did I try to upload a flight plan from Foreflight. I'll get it tomorrow, and then maybe see if the thing will fly and maybe navigate.
 

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The install was pretty straightforward as ya'll suggested. It took about 20 minutes including the configuration. The settings weren't exactly the same as the 430, but pretty close. Comms work great, but by the time I got the thing installed and the battery changed on the ELT, I was cold enough that I didn't feel like dragging it outside so it could see satellites and if it knew what to do with them. It did give me a magenta line to home, but it was from Melbourne, Florida. Somewhere, I also missed the setting to configure wifi and turn bluetooth on so I didn't set up the keyboard nor did I try to upload a flight plan from Foreflight. I'll get it tomorrow, and then maybe see if the thing will fly and maybe navigate.

Just what I needed, a big a$$ side of jealousy to go with my Thanksgiving turkey! :D
 
Things didn't go so smoothly when I installed a 440 in place of a 430w. The 430w had great satellite lock, the 440 kept loosing satellite lock. Same tray, same gps antenna, the 430 held position, the 440 lost position every few minutes it seemed. I pulled the 440 out, put the 430w back, issue was completely gone; I pulled the 430w out put the 440 back, gps lock kept recurring.

The other issue, or concern I had, was the 440 ran hot. It was so hot it was uncomfortable to touch. I really wanted to like the 440. It offers much more capability than the 430w. Ultimately I removed the 440 and still run the 430w to this day.
 
Things didn't go so smoothly when I installed a 440 in place of a 430w. The 430w had great satellite lock, the 440 kept loosing satellite lock. Same tray, same gps antenna, the 430 held position, the 440 lost position every few minutes it seemed. I pulled the 440 out, put the 430w back, issue was completely gone; I pulled the 430w out put the 440 back, gps lock kept recurring.

The other issue, or concern I had, was the 440 ran hot. It was so hot it was uncomfortable to touch. I really wanted to like the 440. It offers much more capability than the 430w. Ultimately I removed the 440 and still run the 430w to this day.

Yeah, they are known to run hot, so I read. I note that the guy who built my airplane apparently decided to cool the avionics stack with the GNS430W using air directed from the main cabin air vent. Did it ever shut down on you, or did you ever get an overtemp warning from the IFD440?

As to the satellite lock problem...how recently did you encounter that issue? What did Avidyne say about that?
 
Yeah, they are known to run hot, so I read. I note that the guy who built my airplane apparently decided to cool the avionics stack with the GNS430W using air directed from the main cabin air vent. Did it ever shut down on you, or did you ever get an overtemp warning from the IFD440?

As to the satellite lock problem...how recently did you encounter that issue? What did Avidyne say about that?

It never shutdown or displayed an overtemp warning. My 430 install included an avionics blast tube from a naca scoop for cabin ventilation. That was continued to be used with the 440.

The satellite lock problem was when I installed the 440 in May 2018. I contacted Avidyne and was asked where the GPS antenna was located. It was on a shelf in the empennage of my composite Lancair. They provided a copy of the install manual stating it must be installed on the exterior upper fuselage of the aircraft. Fair enough, my install wasn't compliant with the 440 install manual, but it worked fine with the 430...why could the 430 handle it and the 440 be unable? That difference and the painfully hot running box were 2 strikes for me; I didn't want to see the third strike while in IMC with only one IFR GPS.
 
It never shutdown or displayed an overtemp warning. My 430 install included an avionics blast tube from a naca scoop for cabin ventilation. That was continued to be used with the 440.

The satellite lock problem was when I installed the 440 in May 2018. I contacted Avidyne and was asked where the GPS antenna was located. It was on a shelf in the empennage of my composite Lancair. They provided a copy of the install manual stating it must be installed on the exterior upper fuselage of the aircraft. Fair enough, my install wasn't compliant with the 440 install manual, but it worked fine with the 430...why could the 430 handle it and the 440 be unable? That difference and the painfully hot running box were 2 strikes for me; I didn't want to see the third strike while in IMC with only one IFR GPS.

Hmm..interesting. I haven't flown the thing yet, but firing it up on the ground after pulling it out of the hangar resulted in rapid satellite acquisition and entering a flight plan showed the usual magenta line, sent as usual to my EFIS and moving map as well as via a separate RS232 line to my G5. THAT was encouraging. Haven't checked the autopilot, so I don't know if ARINC is online.

I wonder if my WAAS antenna location will end up being a problem. It's mounted next to the upper firewall just under the cowl.
 

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IFD to 340 wiring

Here is what we did when replacing a KX-165 and KLN-90B with an IFD-440. See attached image of the wiring schedule. In your case there should be even less to do as long as the Audio LO and HI signals are each separate pins from 430W.

The only thing you might want to do is repurpose a switchable audio input on the 340 (like ADF as we did) to allow you to listen to that standby audio. If you have two radios this is probably not a high priority but if the 430W was your only radio then that standby is really handy.

Neil
 

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Here is what we did when replacing a KX-165 and KLN-90B with an IFD-440. See attached image of the wiring schedule. In your case there should be even less to do as long as the Audio LO and HI signals are each separate pins from 430W.

The only thing you might want to do is repurpose a switchable audio input on the 340 (like ADF as we did) to allow you to listen to that standby audio. If you have two radios this is probably not a high priority but if the 430W was your only radio then that standby is really handy.

Neil

Thank you Neil, that's extremely helpful. I do only have one radio and standby audio would be very convenient.
 
My IFD440 wasn't shipped with Bluetooth or WiFi activated, so I'm unable to turn either one on in user settings. An email and phone call to Avidyne Technical Support resulted in a surprisingly prompt reply with a plan to email me the .dsf file needed to install the switch necessary to turn on the switch necessary to turn on those two important features.

Now...if the thing doesn't melt my panel and if it consistently maintains satellite lock, I anticipate that it will end up providing substantially enhanced functionality over that venerable old GNS430W. We'll see.

I conclude that the term "plug and play" tends to have a rather broad interpretation.
 
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Plug and Play

Considering you don't need to cut into your panel, that's pretty plug and play for experimental. :)

To add that one audio line (shielded 2/22 AWG I think) you will need to pin up both ends and the IFD end uses the tiny MS crimp pins. Find a friend with a good pin tool to help you with that.

Even with two radios I often use that standby for monitoring CTAF while I'm picking up ATIS, or sometimes the reverse, while I have the other radio on ATC enroute or approach. Being able to tap the ADF button to monitor it is handy.

I just remembered there is also an audio alert output on the IFD that should go to an un-switched input on the 340. It will give you audible terrain warnings and possibly traffic warnings as well. Here is a forum thread on the subject:

http://forums.avidyne.com/aural-warnings_topic837.html
 
I anticipate that it will end up providing substantially enhanced functionality over that venerable old GNS430W. We'll see.

The user interface is much better, and it is now SO much easier to add a DP to a departure and arrival STAR at the other end. Adding a hold somewhere on the route is a matter of 5 seconds and is plainly intuitive - much better than the 430W I used to run.
 
The IFD440 is installed, up and running. It works great…no issues at this point. Very intuitive, convenient to use. Definitely the most “plug and play” upgrade I’ve done.
 
...The IFD440 is advertised as a "direct slide-in" replacement for that GNS430W. I realize that it would be too much to hope for that "direct slide-in replacement" is the same as "plug and play", but for those of you that have done this particular, or a similar, swap, what all would I likely have to do behind the panel? Lots of re-pinning connectors? Comonent compatibility issues? Panel modifications? Antenna compatibility? Configuration pitfalls?..

The IFD440 is installed, up and running. It works great…no issues at this point. Very intuitive, convenient to use. Definitely the most “plug and play” upgrade I’ve done.

Interested in hearing your thoughts after a year+ of use?
 
Interested in hearing your thoughts after a year+ of use?

It was an outstanding upgrade. No regrets whatsoever. The IFD440 has a vastly more intuitive interface than that otherwise-competent 430W, and has the advantage of also having a good flight management system. I appreciate the whole host of convenience doodads, such as fuel management, switch-tanks reminder, intuitive auto-entering of waypoint airport and navigation frequencies etc. My EFIS does that stuff too, but navigating the IFD is actually a little simpler so I generally leave my navigation input as IFD440 rather than the EFIS. Obviously, if we're talking IFR, the choice would have to be IFD440.

I was concerned about the interface with my moving map and EFIS (Advanced Flight 5400 and 3500), as well as the Advanced Flight autopilot (ARINC429) and the serial connection to my backup G5. That all came together completely and all of those components continue to work together seamlessly, even the switch that provides autopilot source input from either the EFIS or the IFD440.

I find the little bluetooth keyboard for frequency and identifier entry to be VERY convenient. Likewise, I really appreciate the seamless transfer of flight planning data from Foreflight, and I really appreciate the ability to display the IFD display in full size mode on an iPad from wifi and be able to enter stuff that way via the IFD100 app. I actually bought an iPad Mini 6 for that purpose. I generally fly with Foreflight on a mounted iPad Pro 11. It worked OK to just switch from Foreflight to IFD100, but the extra iPad is more convenient. Yes, I'm a technology junky.

I had seen some reports about the IFD440 running really hot, as well as some issues with GPS lock, but I haven't had any issues with that stuff. Absolutely no glitches or failures of any kind.

I had some initial confusion (avionics ignorance) in entering the configurations. I had screen-shot all of the 430W configs. "Mostly" the configuration titles were the same, but some I didn't quite understand and had to sort out. I bought the thing from Stein, and he just shipped it to me to install. What I didn't realize was that some of the features like WIFI and bluetooth had to be "enabled" with a downloadable "key". Normally in a certified airplane, the IFD would be installed by the avionics dealer despite its drop-in nature and they would activate that stuff. I didn't get that, but did get it sorted with Avidyne support. Stein would have done it for me but I elected to press on despite that fact that Steinair is only an hour from me. Avidyne support was very accessible and very helpful, although I did get chewed out a little by them complaining (mildly) about "you Experimental guys trying to do this stuff yourselves" instead of letting the dealer do it. Overall, those self-imposed configuration issues were cleared up with just a conversation and a couple of emails with Avidyne.

Only issue has been the 10.3.0.2 software debacle. Although it had some really nice upgrades, I did not do that upgrade. There turned out to be a number of bugs and a lot of apparent user dissatisfaction with those bugs. Apparently the fixed software version is "close" to being released after several months. I suspect Avidyne is highly incented not to to screw this up again. I'm not going to be an early adopter.

All-in-all, very pleased with the purchase. I've yet to see a downside or anything to make me regret the purchase.
 
WAAS antenna location

Did you continue to use the WAAS antenna under the cowling as you showed? I'm upgrading to WAAS and was concerned with keeping the antenna on a tray under the cowl, similar to yours. The manual specifies a 18" ground plane radius, which is obviously not the case with our common configuration. My tray is a bit larger, around 6" by 6". Is your reception acceptable with the under cowl location?
 
Did you continue to use the WAAS antenna under the cowling as you showed? I'm upgrading to WAAS and was concerned with keeping the antenna on a tray under the cowl, similar to yours. The manual specifies a 18" ground plane radius, which is obviously not the case with our common configuration. My tray is a bit larger, around 6" by 6". Is your reception acceptable with the under cowl location?

Yes, I did nothing with the Garmin WAAS antenna...same antenna and same location (top rear cowl) mount as I used for the 403W. Reception relative to number of satellites is the same as it was for the 430W, and I've had no GPS connection issues.


..
 

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Just wanted to add another data point.

I swapped the 430 for an IFD440 just over a year ago now and I love it! Ease of finding and entering frequencies/airports/waypoints is worth it in itself, let alone the other great advantages over a 430. The total replace time was probably 20 minutes at most. No brainer.
 
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