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  #21  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:15 PM
gotyoke gotyoke is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill.hutchison View Post
Before I wrote this reply, I also ran this by a DPE who is both significantly experienced an an RV owner. He would have no problem with administering a checkride that way.
I'm hoping to get my IFR rating before my plane is done, so in my case it's less about the checkride and more about safety and currency. Am I correct that currency regs aren't specific about what of approaches are needed (61.57c)?
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  #22  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:15 PM
bill.hutchison bill.hutchison is offline
 
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Second responded:

"My POI says 2 NAVAIDS required. IE - one ground based, one satellite based. The combo of NP and P doesn't matter."


So there ya go. You do have to have at least one of those for the checkride.



EDIT - I really, really need to do more homework with respect to EAB. Still learning. This was educational for me.

Last edited by bill.hutchison : 07-15-2021 at 03:24 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:28 PM
gotyoke gotyoke is offline
 
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Thank you everyone for your input. You have all given me good things to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTAAFLY View Post
If youre just traveling for the fun of it, and occasionally needing to file IFR and light IMC with high personal minimums, then GPS only is likely acceptable.

This is simply one opinion. You should continue your due diligence and think about how you are really going to operate your airplane. What your personal comfort level is.
How you view small plane IMC flying seems very much in line with how I see it. I would do it in a pinch, say to get into or out of an airport on a fairly VMC day, but my mission would not necessitate low minimums or hours in clouds. In those conditions, I'd rather drive, fly commercial, or stay home. I also do not have ambitions for going beyond private pilot.
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  #24  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:47 PM
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Thermos Thermos is offline
 
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A couple of things to consider about GPS...

Ground interference to GPS isn't hypothetical; it occurs every day, sometimes without warning. The trucker-with-a-jammer scenario actually happened at the Newark airport and caused the FAA quite a few headaches as they tried to commission a ground-based GPS augmentation system for Cat 2/3 approaches right next to the intersection of two major interstate highways.

And sometimes the interference is intentional - check out this VAF thread- https://vansairforce.net/community/s...d.php?t=197329.

I've had a fair amount of experience since the early 90's with GPS in military and civilian applications and have been fortunate to work with people who are a lot smarter than I am about its operation. I won't put all my eggs in the GPS basket...not yet, at least . I heartily concur with the recommendations here to find an inexpensive VOR/LOC receiver or maybe switch to a gently-used GNS-430W.

HTH

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Last edited by Thermos : 07-16-2021 at 05:48 AM.
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  #25  
Old 07-15-2021, 04:05 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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Not to beat a dead horse - but I will anyway.

Over the last 10 months Ive done a couple of dozen long, IFR cross countries (perhaps two hours total in IMC and no hard approaches). I fly with dual SkyViews and a GTN-650. I do NAV, LOC and ILS approaches for proficiency but have not done anything other than a RNAV approach for an actual IMC landing in years. Flying IFR (following the nice magenta GPS track) I still religiously tune in the next VOR along track. What I found over this period was about 4 out of 10 VORs shown on current charts are dead.

My point - the recent data has me leaning toward GPS only for the new project as I conclude the FAA is not maintaining the VOR system. I agree that ILS is a nice backup to RNAV, but for RNAV to go away such that a NAV/LOC/ILS approach is required the following things need to happen simultaneously:
- The GPS cloud goes down and is not coming back.
- I cannot get to an airport with VFR conditions using Dead Reckoning and/or vectors from ATC.
- ATC cannot provide assistance to help me land if below visual conditions.

That said, if I had a nice SL-30 Id use it (best NAV/Comm ever made). Too bad Garmin killed it.

Now if Dynon came out with a SkyView EFIS based Nav/Comm similar to the current Dynon remote comm (that I put into three RVs), Id be all over it.

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  #26  
Old 07-15-2021, 04:16 PM
tom_AZ tom_AZ is offline
 
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Default GPS only v. GPS + NAV

Two separate questions:

1) What will I use 99% of the time?
2) What do I feel comfortable with?

The answer to (1) is GPS. Great stability on approach, both lateral and vertical, easy to create non-airway routes, etc... However, at least in the SW, there are FREQUENT NOTAMS about (possible) GPS outages--centered on the White Sands Missile Range, Yuma Proving Grounds, or other locations. Affected radii, even at 4K feet, can be large--400 nm. I flew from Tucson, AZ to Ames, IA the other day, with a fuel stop in the TX panhandle--mostly VFR, but needed to pick up a clearance for an approach. There were NOTAMS as mentioned above on that day. The system wasn't actually affected, but certainly could have created a challenge if it had been and GPS was the only option available to me. Even VFR, there is a lot of relatively featureless landscape along that route--as well as a few needles to be threaded to avoid Restricted Airspace. Sure, we've all done pilotage and ded reckoning, but how much of that have you done recently on long trips over terrain w/o much in the way of landmarks (especially if your sectional is an iPad screen, that now isn't geo-referenced). Doable, yes. Fun, not so much.

I don't disagree a bit that other b/u instrumentation is more important in terms of being able to keep the shiny side up, but there's no reason, except AMUs, that it has to be "or" rather than "and".
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  #27  
Old 07-15-2021, 05:20 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill.hutchison View Post
Second responded:

"My POI says 2 NAVAIDS required. IE - one ground based, one satellite based. The combo of NP and P doesn't matter."


So there ya go. You do have to have at least one of those for the checkride.



EDIT - I really, really need to do more homework with respect to EAB. Still learning. This was educational for me.
Bill, thanks a million for getting responses from two different DPEs!

Sorry OP for kind of hi-jacking but hopefully this helps you make the decision as well.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2021, 07:05 PM
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IMO, a GTN750xi is the best money you'll ever spend when it comes to panel mounted navigators. Go big or go home

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Last edited by Walt : 07-15-2021 at 07:13 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2021, 07:47 PM
gotyoke gotyoke is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
IMO, a GTN750xi is the best money you'll ever spend when it comes to panel mounted navigators. Go big or go home
Gorgeous! I am something of a minimalist, though, so not my style.
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  #30  
Old 07-15-2021, 09:22 PM
David Z David Z is offline
 
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I have seen the weather significantly lower than forecast. I have seen GPSs do really weird and unexpected things. Often simplicity and reliability is key. The ILS is pretty simple and reliable. NAV capability is something I wouldn't go without on an IFR capable airplane. Might not ever plan on using it. However, one day, it might be worth it's weight in gold. Consider a NAV radio like taking more than minimum fuel, probably not needed until it's really really important.

Granted most of us aren't professional pilots with 25,000hr careers and see multiple issues. How much are you willing to bet that you won't see one of those issues that the professional pilot has seen and is warning us about?
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