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electronic ignition choices

pylotttt

Active Member
I know there has been a number of threads regarding electronic ignition systems. I am considering a change on my rv-6a o-320 to electronic ignition and am looking for information on the best bang for the buck, ease of install, reliability, performance improvements, etc. Oshkosh is just around the corner so it might be a good time to change from bendix.

Also, if changing only one side, how does the changing timing advance compared to the fixed of a magneto affect the engine? On an system that runs auto plugs can you change just one set to auto and have the other aircraft?


Thanks
 
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I’m going through a similar study, and this is what I have so far:

I’m building an RV6 and right now considering one EI on the left, and a Slick mag on the right. This prevents me from needing a dedicated backup power source in the event of electrical system failure. Options:
. SDS single ECU, single coil firing one set of plugs. $1705.00
. Emag - $1550.00. Needs an automotive style harness which they sell.
. SureFly - $1395.00. Direct replacement for the magneto (same harness/plugs)
. EFII - not sure they sell a kit for a single EI - their website doesn’t mention it

The SDS, Emag, and EFII use auto sparks plugs, and the SureFly can also use auto plugs, but you’ll have to modify the stock magneto harness (not difficult.

If you want dual EI, then with SDS, SureFly, and EFII, you will need a more robust electrical system with a backup battery, or backup alternator, or both. The Emag is self powered, so no backup needed.
Dual EI researched:
. SDS $2706.00 (plus backup battery and isolated wiring system)
. SureFly $2790.00 (plus the backups mentioned above)
. EFII $2750.00 (plus backup power….)
. Emag $3100.00. No backup power needed.

EFII has a bus manager box that simplifies the backup power source and it sells for $595.00.
These prices were obtained from Spruce. You might be able to do better depending on what you are buying and where.

Good luck. Lots of good choices.
 
Thanks for the info. At this point I am leaning towards the e-mag model P. I believe that is what many people are talking about when they say P-mag, since the conversion seems easier. Do you know if the others offer improvements in fuel economy, engine smoothness, or horsepower over the P-mag?
 
I have an Electroair system which is pretty good and cost effective. I did have a problem with the MAP sensor that drove the need to replace it. They supported me with a loaner for troubleshooting and then a warranty replacement. Their pricing is on the web site as $1950.

This system is pretty simple overall, and is a derivative from auto racing systems that is well proven. They also have certified systems, so some good experience.

While I have no experience with SDS, it would also get a close look if I were to be looking.
 
Thanks for the info. At this point I am leaning towards the e-mag model P. I believe that is what many people are talking about when they say P-mag, since the conversion seems easier. Do you know if the others offer improvements in fuel economy, engine smoothness, or horsepower over the P-mag?

I ran dual Lightspeed ignitions on my first RV - removed them at 300 hours after multiple failures. Replaced with dual pMags which now have 1000+ trouble free hour on them.

I run dual pMags on the new RV-8 (180 hrs) and installed the new six cylinder pMag on my old RV-10 (300 hrs).

To your specific questions:
- The pMags offer a significant gain in fuel economy over standard mags - assuming you are running the engine to take advantage of this.
- Engine smoothness is a harder metric - but the pMags offer a much easier start and such over mags.
- Regardless of your EI choice there is no gain in flat out power over a properly installed mag set up. But - there is a significant gain in cruise efficiency.
- The fact that dual pMags eliminate the tedious job of cleaning and gapping grossly overpriced aviation plugs should not be overlooked.

Bottom line, any EI that provides spark advance with altitude will provide gains over a standard mag. The aspects to decide which EI boils down more to:
- Will it fail?
- Do I need to design a robust electrical power scheme to keep the engine running?
- Can I use auto plugs?
- Will the EI vendor be around when if I have a problem (after the sale service)?

Here I suggest the pMag leads in all these aspects.

Carl
 
I don’t have anything other than mags to compare to, but SDS on one side and mag on the other works for me. No problems over first yr and 100hrs. Looks well built and not hard to understand with some study.
 
EmagAir sells a powered electronic mag (pMag). They no longer sell the unpowered version of their electronic mag (formerly eMag). But their company is still called eMagair(.com).
I don’t know of any improved performance or smoothness from the various EI systems from my experience, other than less, or no, maintenance, easier starting, better forgiveness for uneven fuel mixtures when leaning, or ability to operate lean of peak when compared to a standard magneto. All of my EI’s were pretty smooth. I have used Lightspeed, electro air, Pmag, and SureFly. To me, all were very similar in their improved performance capability. If you are the kind of guy who likes to tweak things to get ultimate performance/economy at all phases of flight, then get the SDS system. If you’re a set it and forget it kind of guy, then get one of the others.
That’s my $.02 worth -
 
...best bang for the buck, ease of install, reliability, performance improvements...

Best bang for the buck is a DIY system based on a Ford EDIS module and a Megajolt controller. $500~$600 per side. Works great, runs any timing schedule desired, including fixed.

The easiest install is a Surefly, particularly if replacing a Slick.

Reliability? There's a pretty good argument for systems with no moving mechanical parts, and electronics on the cool side of the firewall. Beyond that, well, opinions vary.

Performance improvement will be pretty much the same for any practical EI, given the same timing. Some allow user adjustable timing, some don't.

Also, if changing only one side, how does the changing timing advance compared to the fixed of a magneto affect the engine?

Effective timing will be a less advanced than the stated advance might suggest. Not a problem. Do note that EI and advanced timing are separate subjects, often conflated. Several of the EI's allow fixed, conventional timing, without advance.

On an system that runs auto plugs can you change just one set to auto and have the other aircraft?

Yes.
 
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Lightspeed

Replaced the right magneto with a Lightspeed Plasma III about three years and 200 hours ago on our O-320 powered RV-6. Install is a bit complex and time-consuming. Auto plugs on top, kept the aircraft plugs on the bottom. Pushed the circuit breaker in, twisted the key and it started immediately. Absolutely perfect ever since. Immediate starts, runs smooth and we seem to save at least a half gallon an hour. The only maintenance seems to be the need to replace the manifold pressure hose now and then when oil accumulates at the low spot. If we lose electrical power and then run out of battery, the magneto will get us to a runway.
 
I ran dual Lightspeed ignitions on my first RV - removed them at 300 hours after multiple failures. Replaced with dual pMags which now have 1000+ trouble free hour on them.

Carl, how long ago was your bad experience with Lightspeed and which system?

All of these systems had growing pains. For example, if you look back round 2012-2013 you'll find a lot of Emag issues, but those are ancient history.

I'm curious because I'm about to use Lightspeed in my current project, was included with the kit.
 
Carl, how long ago was your bad experience with Lightspeed and which system?

All of these systems had growing pains. For example, if you look back round 2012-2013 you'll find a lot of Emag issues, but those are ancient history.

I'm curious because I'm about to use Lightspeed in my current project, was included with the kit.

I and my brother (with my recommendation) ran LS plasma II and III, I ran dual systems for a while.
We both had multiple box failures over the years. The last straw for me is when Klaus was unable to repair the box for a second time, claimed there was nothing wrong with it, but was happy to sell me another one at full price, and wouldn't return the box I sent him without paying for the "testing".

I told him to stick the box where the sun don't shine, removed the LS and never looked back.

When they work that's great, but support is a primary purchasing decision in my world, Klaus and Co failed in that critical detail.
 
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Lycoming EIS (Surefly)

There has been a change to the Van's/Lycoming engine ordering options (non-Thunderbolt). One can only order dual mag, dual Lycoming EIS, or dual P-mag.

Is anyone running dual Surefly or Lycoming EIS? I really like the Surefly system, but was planning one mag and one Surefly to mitigate the electrical system issue. Now it looks like I could run dual Surefly straight from the factory, but what are the real world considerations and risks for such a system? For Lycoming to offer their EIS in a dual configuration, they must have high confidence in the robustness of the system.
 
Best bang for the buck is a DIY system based on a Ford EDIS module and a Megajolt controller. $500~$600 per side. Works great, runs any timing schedule desired, including fixed.

The easiest install is a Surefly, particularly if replacing a Slick.

Reliability? There's a pretty good argument for systems with no moving mechanical parts, and electronics on the cool side of the firewall. Beyond that, well, opinions vary.

Performance improvement will be pretty much the same for any practical EI, given the same timing. Some allow user adjustable timing, some don't.

Effective timing will be a less advanced than the stated advance might suggest. Not a problem. Do note that EI and advanced timing are separate subjects, often conflated. Several of the EI's allow fixed, conventional timing, without advance.



Yes.


I am using megasquirt systems on my planes. On the 10 I did a couple years ago, it was only $800 for two 6 cyl EI setups (10% off black friday deal). The one on my 6 has provided 650 hours of trouble free service. I even have a rheostat based advance knob that will give an on the fly -4/+5 change from the active map. I was intrigued by the megajolt, but didn't want to deal with making a steel toothed wheel. The megasquirt lets me use hall effect sensor and I just installed magnets in the Lyc flywheel on the 10 and made a mag hole based trigger assy for the 6.

Larry
 
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LSE and PMag

I run dual Lightspeed Plasma III's in my Lycoming 540 and dual PMags in my Lycoming 360. Both have been zero maintenance issues and highly recommend either! In general problems with either since their 'maturity' has been owner induced....usually by NOT following the directions during install. Make sure you understand what you are doing. Looks like you have made a great analysis so far 👍
 
There has been a change to the Van's/Lycoming engine ordering options (non-Thunderbolt). One can only order dual mag, dual Lycoming EIS, or dual P-mag.

This is a new option was unavailable when I ordered the M1B engine about 1 year ago. Back then, there must be at least 1 Slick magneto for all non-Thunderbolt engine because as explained by Vans, Lycoming wanted to keep the reliability of the magneto. But then, the Thunderbolt order can accommodate all sorts of options. I am glad Lycoming is treating all experimental engines like the Thunderbolt.
 
Carl, how long ago was your bad experience with Lightspeed and which system?

All of these systems had growing pains. For example, if you look back round 2012-2013 you'll find a lot of Emag issues, but those are ancient history.

I'm curious because I'm about to use Lightspeed in my current project, was included with the kit.

I’m not going to start a debate - I just responded to the post. I would add however that I recently helped an RV guy find his dual Lightspeed timing issue - both boxes were stuck at ~40 degrees BTDC (regardless of engine RPM or MP) since new. The boxes were sent in for repair. Lesson here is never, ever forget to verify a Lightspeed install using a real timing light.

Along the same lines, the other RV guys at my airpark have scrapped their Lightspeed installs over the last decade or so, replacing with pMags or going back to mags.

Last comment, do not discount after the sale service.

Pay your money and take your chances.

Carl
 
I am using megasquirt systems on my planes. On the 10 I did a couple years ago, it was only $800 for two 6 cyl EI setups (10% off black friday deal).

AutoSport Labs MegajoltE's are now $219. The EDIS-4 module is about $50 used (ebay), less at salvage yards, and I bought new ones for $100. New coils are about $50. The rest of the estimate is headroom for plug wire, terminal ends, a pickup, etc.

Megajolt or Megasquirt, the only real DIY work is creating a trigger.

One downside is the need to confirm timing with a light, which means working around a spinning prop. Many of the "aircraft ignitions" also need timing light confirmation. The rest assume.

The key advantage to the MegajoltE approach (as compared to a Megasquirt) is the Ford EDIS module. If the Megajolt (which provides timing control) fails, is disconnected, or loses power, the EDIS module still fires the coil at 10 BTDC.
 
the other RV guys at my airpark have scrapped their Lightspeed installs over the last decade or so

This is my concern when looking at new EI's ... you're biasing your experience on some "decades" ago ... In fairness to Lightspeed (and my current project :D), anyone have a current (last few years) to opine about?

For example, Cub Crafters installs Lightspeed ignitions on all their factory (and kit) airplanes. That crew swears by them.

Only experience I have is with PMags, for which I haven't had any issues, very easy to retrofit.
 
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EI

I currently run a Dual Plasma III on my 8 and love it. Klaus was very helpful when I visited with him about issues setting up my Dynon HDX to display the actual timing advance. I watch the timing and it appears to advance as I would expect. I have bought another set to put on my 3 but have not had the time to make the upgrade.
 
Too many opinions and options, so only making a correction to post number 2.

I am now installing dual SDS CPI ignitions and ditching the D3000 dual mag, which to be honest has given 289 hours of trouble free easy starts.

The complete dual system was $1,968 delivered to my door.

Would have loved to had the free time to play with an existing install but I still don't have time for my other experiments as it is. :)
 
I’m pretty happy with my SDS CPI-2 system. Install was straight forward with great support from Ross at SDS. One of the main reasons I went with the CPI-2 was it has its own backup battery solution. This made the retrofit into my single, non redundant electrical system airplane much easier. The backup system works great. I test it after every flight by shutting off the master switch before shutting down the engine. It switches over seamlessly. I’ve also tested it altitude by simulating a full power takeoff and shutting off the master switch. Other than the radio going silent and the ignition fault alarm (the G3X system continues to run on the TCW IBBS) you would never know anything was amiss.
 
I don't think there are any truly bad ignitions out there right now. There are, however, significant differences in required wiring, system setup, adjustability, and capability.

I'd suggest the OP ignore all "I've had great luck with my ####" posts and research the above differences. Go to the manufacturer websites, download the manuals, and read them carefully.
 
Robust Electrical Installation

All EI'S need a solid installation of their electrical wiring to prevent failure.
Protection against abrasion and vibration and possible mechanical damage. Armor plating or protecting critical wires must be thought through especially with wiring attached to an EI.


"For example, Cub Crafters installs Lightspeed ignitions on all their factory (and kit) airplanes. That crew swears by them."

This photo is from Oshkosh of an aircraft on display from a Manufacturer with the cowls removed.
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There was an aircraft lost here in Australia some years ago with a Dual Lightspeed Ignition. The popular theory was that the alt belt failed taking out both EI crank sensor wires. Both pilots were lucky to survive, both had severe burns.


Please protect critical EI wires !

(photo below is of a CPI2 Hall sensor install on an RV-14)

ACtC-3fP44IpUQOclJvmXoo52gTLVq9mJ0a-OGTUzT1pLtzz8Hp1nFJdBI-1WdWmMCB9I52YRbIi7muRzqAZXpXUHITa4duby_KVplbVZTJ0-o8YpuWHqPwmki62yXBBrL_d54OksVnyD5Bk29cAu6OUPXEC5Q=w678-h903
 
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I don't think there are any truly bad ignitions out there right now. There are, however, significant differences in required wiring, system setup, adjustability, and capability.

I'd suggest the OP ignore all "I've had great luck with my ####" posts and research the above differences. Go to the manufacturer websites, download the manuals, and read them carefully.

That’s what I did when I went shopping. I spoke with all the available venders, read as much as I could, and spoke to guys who had bought them. Then I made my choice based on my particular needs.
 
Best bang for the buck is a DIY system based on a Ford EDIS module and a Megajolt controller. $500~$600 per side. Works great, runs any timing schedule desired, including fixed.

The easiest install is a Surefly, particularly if replacing a Slick.

Reliability? There's a pretty good argument for systems with no moving mechanical parts, and electronics on the cool side of the firewall. Beyond that, well, opinions vary.

Performance improvement will be pretty much the same for any practical EI, given the same timing. Some allow user adjustable timing, some don't.



Effective timing will be a less advanced than the stated advance might suggest. Not a problem. Do note that EI and advanced timing are separate subjects, often conflated. Several of the EI's allow fixed, conventional timing, without advance.



Yes.

I have about 60 hours on my EDIS/Megajolt (single side) with no issues. I am right now in the process of installing the second system and adding the backup battery. Been putting it off to avoid the downtime. With my prop back at Catto for repairs it is a good time to do it.
 
P-mag

I just put a p-mag on the right side of my o320.
I had done some speed runs before the change and after.
When comparing them the speeds were the same but I was running 1gph less. The p-mag side runs much smoother than the normal mag. Now I need to get another.
 
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