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Another inspection question

BlackRV7

BlackRV7

Well Known Member
After speaking with my DAR today I am very reluctant to post this question as he was very helpful on the phone and very receptive to a large area to my west out almost 80 miles. This is very good in that I am able to avoid the mountains south and east of me and remain in a large box over relatively flat land.

Here is my question though, he wants 1.5 hours of taxi time logged prior to the inspection. I have new ECI cylinders and nowhere in the literature does it state this is good for cyl. break in. This DAR is an engine builder of many years and is adamant about this requirement for my airworthiness cert. Would one of you DARs please provide me with the documented requirement for 1.5 hours of taxi time. I don't want to argue with him, but I would like to read this requirement.

If my DAR is reading this...............................
 
BlackRV7 said:
After speaking with my DAR today I am very reluctant to post this question as he was very helpful on the phone and very receptive to a large area to my west out almost 80 miles. This is very good in that I am able to avoid the mountains south and east of me and remain in a large box over relatively flat land.

Here is my question though, he wants 1.5 hours of taxi time logged prior to the inspection. I have new ECI cylinders and nowhere in the literature does it state this is good for cyl. break in. This DAR is an engine builder of many years and is adamant about this requirement for my airworthiness cert. Would one of you DARs please provide me with the documented requirement for 1.5 hours of taxi time. I don't want to argue with him, but I would like to read this requirement.

If my DAR is reading this...............................
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Dana:

There is NO requirement for 1.5 hours of TAXI.

My advice is to find another DAR. The 1.5 hour request is UNREASONABLE !

If you were in SoCAL, I would do your airplane for you without the taxi requirement.
 
Let's let this thread die a fast death. I just spoke via phone with a very respected member of this forum and got some valuable information. Gary thanks for you comment also, but let's please let this die. I really, really don't want this to turn into a DAR bashing.

Gary, you mind if I fly it out to CA for my inspection.........or are you going to make me taxi it out there ;)
 
Do you have a Subaru conversion? This could explain the long taxi requirement as the Subbie engine might need the time on the ground to feel better about flying.

(The above post was tounge in check poking fun at the auto conversion.)

Just call the DAR up and call him on it. He's not gonna get POed if he is a professional. 1.5 hours of taxi is rediculous,,,,,, unless you have a Subbie :D .
 
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You've already gotten good advice in that 1.5 hours of taxi time is A) Unreasonable and B) Not required (or even hinted at) in any regulation.

In addition, if you have a new engine, extended ground running could prevent your cylinders from ever breaking in properly. You should show the DAR a copy of Lycoming's break-in procedures, which are pretty much "Do a short ground run, shut down, check for missing pieces and leaks. Then fly the heck out of it"
 
what did you end up doing?

Dana, what ended up happening with this? My inspector has just sent me his program letter template, within which is a requirement for one hour of ground run. I'm pushing back politely but firmly based on Lyco breakin procedure as mentioned in this thread. Would love to hear what you did and how it worked out, or comments from anyone else who's had this kind of item pop up.
 
We did 18 minutes of total run time that included two taxi tests before flight. No mention from DAR about ground time requirement. If in Florida I would highly recommend our DAR, very thorough.
Phelps
 
On both of the RV's I've had licensed, my DAR asked if I had an hour of run time on the engine/airframe - and I did. It really gives you a great deal of confidence that you have no leaks, drips, or errors before you launch into the blue for the first time, and can be done quite safely - for you and the engine. Mahlon Russell at Mattituck says that as long as you keep the runs short so that the CHT's stay below 300 degrees, the cylinders don't "know" that they have been run (from a standpoint of break-in). It's pretty easy to get an hour of runtime in short segments, with inspections in between.

I can't address whether or not it is "Required" by the FAR's, but I do believe that it is a good idea.

Paul
 
Also remember.....

that one hour of ground run includes time run-in at the factory. Unless you built the engine up yourself, most all engine builders run the engine at least one hour before shipping it to you.

It is NOT an FAR requirement. We ask so that we have the information in our records.
 
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Now are the engines broke in if they are ran on an engine stand, with the mini prop, ect?
 
No!

bret said:
Now are the engines broke in if they are ran on an engine stand, with the mini prop, ect?
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They are NOT broken. But they do generally have the initial "seatings" done to a point. You still need to follow their break-in procedures.
 
Different things

bret said:
Now are the engines broke in if they are ran on an engine stand, with the mini prop, ect?
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I am no expert but from my reading there are two different things accomplished here. The run on the test stand for 1-2 hours I believe is called "Run In" and the running to get the rings and cylinder walls matched up is the "Break In" I think you could have the break in done on a stand with the proper cooling but I think that is cost prohibitive in most cases.

I am sure someone will correct me if I have this wrong.

Cheers
 
1.0 hour at Lycoming and I did 0.2 of taxiing 30-40 kts down the runway and back before final cowling install and first flight. Still had some minor leaks from oil drain-back rubber hoses after first flight. It was 40-45F OAT. I would not fly without a little taxi time, brakes broke in, std runup and leak check. Temps never exceeded 300F. It is running great at 29 hours. The FAA insp was fine with 1.2 hours.
 
Thanks for all your feedback. I had AeroSportPower run it for four hours on the stand (relatively inexpensive insurance IMO); perhaps this will satisfy my DAR's request. And thanks, Paul, for the CHT figure - I'll use that for a shutdown signal while I do the brake conditioning and taxi testing. Fortunately, current weather in MT will be in my favor for cooling!
 
Engine Run/Taxi Time

I'm at work so don't have the data in front of me, but Aerosport ran my new IO-360 for a fairly reasonable time before shipping it to me. They included a data sheet that showed various run parameters.

I did a couple short taxi tests then declared flight prep victory - even though the local airport A&P insisted that my brakes weren't going to work well since I didn't do high speed taxi/stop drills. Turned out brakes worked fine - and a couple of the early flight rvelations were how quickly the plane launched into the blue - and how little real estate/braking was required to land and stop.

I had read and agreed with Vans articles on their dislike of high speed taxi tests.

Gary was my DAR - logged taxi time never came up.
 
- even though the local airport A&P insisted that my brakes weren't going to work well since I didn't do high speed taxi/stop drills.
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Lets give this OWT of the day. Our little brakes work pretty ok right out of the box and conditioning only needs heat. You can get that at 5-10 mph.
 
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