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Documenting your progress

J

Jasonm

Well Known Member
Is it required to document your build process by using KitLog or other software? I agree with taking pictures along the way to prove you are the actual builder, but it seems very redundant and time consuming to log the same steps already printed in the book.

Jason
 
As my FSDO said, you need proof you built the plane.

So, take some pictures with you in them and log your time. BTW, I used Excel and the template is available on my website.
 
No. There is no specific guidance on what documentation is required. You just need to be able to convince the FAA rep or DAR that the plane was primarily amateur built. Progress pictures with you in the photos and/or handwritten notes or just instructions with noted completion dates for each step all help. Since the type and amont of documentation required is a bit subjective, my suggestion is to either make sure you have plenty or to establish early on who will be doing your airworthiness inspection and seek that individuals guidance so that there is no issue when the time comes.
 
What RV are you building?

Jason,
Great to see another NC builder! There has been much posted on this issue in the past, and many will comment. The tech natured computer types love the software...I hate it. I'm old school simple, and make my living in the aircraft overhaul industry with mountains of documentation. For the kit build project, I simply used my build instruction book that came with the plans and documented steps I completed in the margin with dates. Nothing fancy, just the facts. I also took pictures along the way which I love to look back on anyway. I had my inspection done by the GSO FSDO (great guys there), and we spent little time looking at the build book and pictures..your inspector will have a pretty good idea who built it just talking with you. If your ever in the Winston Salem area, stop by 8A7 (twin lakes airport) and chat. We have 7 RVs there, and a -7 and 8A in build .
 
I just went through this. Although I did a build blog with lots of pictures and detail, I dont think anyone looked at it, if they did they didnt mention it specifically. They pretty much just took my word for it that I built it and signed me off. I was surprised at that. My take is it depends on the DAR/FSDO...but it seemed pretty informal to me.
 
Jasonm said:
it seems very redundant and time consuming to log the same steps already printed in the book.

Jason
Click to expand...

imo, far too much time is spent putting this type of log together. You will never again look at it with all of the fun time you will spend flying. Do the minimal documentation requirement to satisfy your DAR and get it in the air.
 
Builder log

N941WR said:
As my FSDO said, you need proof you built the plane.

So, take some pictures with you in them and log your time. BTW, I used Excel and the template is available on my website.
Click to expand...

+ 1
I also keep a Google blog and plan to create a binder when the time comes. My reasoning is someday the next owner will want to know how this bird was built. I figure it helps resale value. Also, not everyone follows the Vans destruction manual. Z-brackets for instance. I think it's important to document how diversions from the book were done. If not for yourself or the next owner, then for the VAF community. That said, I'm sure there are an equal number of builders who take the simpler method of writing notes in the book. Use which ever works for you.
 
I kept mine real simple. Spiral notebook. I wrote the date and what was done that day. On the back side of each page I wrote the next work session to be accomplished--great for keeping on task. Took pictures with dates. Tried to take a picture a day. FSDO guy looked at that stuff for about 2 seconds.
 
B Cunningham said:
imo, far too much time is spent putting this type of log together. You will never again look at it with all of the fun time you will spend flying. Do the minimal documentation requirement to satisfy your DAR and get it in the air.
Click to expand...

If your object is just to get the aircraft certificated, then I agree. But I have referred to my log many times for servicing and repair guidance and even, on occasion, to revisit some of the build process. Those were fun times, too, and I like to look back on them. Hally carp! I had hair when I was pro-sealing my RV-6A tanks! And it was black!!! :D

But I agree that there are many ways to accomplish a useful log. I use KitLog Pro because I am too lazy to write something better (a monumental task; it is not perfect but what is? It's been stable for years, and that's a major victory for most software). Before that, it was a paper log and a hand-coded website for me. I don't sneer at 'old school'; it works and was around long before digital computers appeared.
 
erich weaver said:
No. There is no specific guidance on what documentation is required. You just need to be able to convince the FAA rep or DAR that the plane was primarily amateur built. Progress pictures with you in the photos and/or handwritten notes or just instructions with noted completion dates for each step all help. Since the type and amont of documentation required is a bit subjective, my suggestion is to either make sure you have plenty or to establish early on who will be doing your airworthiness inspection and seek that individuals guidance so that there is no issue when the time comes.
Click to expand...

There is specific guidance on what constitutes proof/evidence of building from the FAA -

Pages 7 and 8 of this AC -

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/4db2c5cd655cb3cc86257647004af4ee/$FILE/AC%2020-27G.pdf
 
My blog leaves a lot to be desired! I am very thankful to the hundred + guys who kept an extensive build site because I dont think I could had made it this far without them! I have bookmarks organized in different categories.
 
I had my appointment with the South East MI FSDO office this morning to obtain the repairman's certificate for my RV-10. I did not use a computer style kit log, just noted the date and time spent in my plans book as I built. I also had about 200 photos on a CD. I brought these items along with the file folder of receipts and the required application forms. The inspector I dealt with was a younger guy and very interested in EXP aircraft, in-particular RV's. I offered, but he did not need or want to see anything other than the application/eligibility forms and my ID. He stated that the DAR who inspected my plane and issued the AW certificate already verified I was the builder. Judging from some of the horror tales others here have posted here in regards to dealing with some inspectors, I was ready for a derogatory beat down. I had a great experience and this particular inspector who was courteous and helpful. A true asset to the FAA for sure. I was in and out in about 25 minutes.
 
I did a web base build site to pay it forward for all the build sites that I looked at of other builders to help me. lots of work, but it was fun, and my wife did the website. So there ya go:D
 
I know that lots of photos and descriptions is time consuming and probably overkill for min requirements to prove who built the airplane but I look at it as a helpful tool for others who are looking to see just how we did something. Sometimes just seeing it done helps calm some nerves. I also think that it could serve to help you remember jst how you did something if the need to revisit that item ever comes up again. Plus it looks neat to go back thru a gazillion log postings!
One thing I wish I could find more of are the things at the end of a build. The final prep for example. I know from experience now that its probably due to the exhaustive process after each work session. But I try and I hope others will too.
 
+1 Kitlog

This software is very simple and makes it a breeze to keep a log. I think, in general, keeping a log is a good thing.
Cons:
- Takes extra time
- Costs $50 (Kitlog)

Pros (Kitlog):
- Tracks work and costs (although you may not want to know)
- "Pays it Forward" to other builders
- "Pays it Backward" as a momento of your build
- Tracks your Phase 1 testing
- Has docs for registration
- You can use it for multiple projects (if the bug bites you that hard)
- It's stored on your home computer, not the cloud
- You don't pay a monthly fee to a web host
- You can filter / print the entire log out in PDF to have a hardcopy
- Helps you remember what you did
- Documents efforts of friends and family, so they can show others
- Easily answers the question, "So what kind of progress have you made?":cool:
 
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my FISDO accepted initials and date of completion of each task along side Vans instruction manual. Pictures helped.
 
Overkill but cheap

1. A blog in "My RV Build Project." This is the public one.

2. A Word file, chapters for each section, more photos and step by step descriptions of things worth noting or remembering. Includes dates and hours total. This is for me, to track things I want to remember -- and for the DAR. Unfortunately it's very large, and there's a possibility that the DAR will die of boredom reading it.

3. Work folder, a paper notebook, with day to day work time and the various calculations. Just a shop log.

4. Spreadsheet to track costs. Frightening to examine; I had to add a whole page just for replacement parts.

Dave
RV-3B in Colorado
 
I understand the time logged while building your plane now qualifies toward getting your Airframe & Powerplant Certificate.
 
Ipad based kit log?

Just wondering if anyone knew of a kit log type app for an IPad? I found one called Aircraft Builder. Does anyone have any experience with this app or any others?
Thanks in advance
 
I've got a camera and memory card dedicated to the build, currently with about 600 photos. Ultimately I want to make prints, but I think I'll weed the final number down to maybe 200-300. I'll also provide the DAR with my build thread here on VAF.
 
I recently got my repairman certificate. I just took my laptop and showed the FAA rep a few folders of build photos and he was OK that I built the airplane. I would have shown him my website, but no wifi at the FAA FSDO. He was much more concerned with filling out the paperwork correctly.
 
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