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Would you be interested in an Aerobatic Clinic?

Would you be interested in attending a RV-specific aerobatic clinic.

  • Yes, and I can bring a parachute (my own or borrowed).

    Votes: 58 28.0%
  • Yes, but I can't bring a parachute.

    Votes: 93 44.9%
  • I'm interested but need to know more.

    Votes: 39 18.8%
  • Definitely not interested.

    Votes: 17 8.2%

  • Total voters
    207
Chute buyer beware.

Some of you may be interested in buying a used chute. Can't tell you how many times I have heard people tell me that a chute's useful life is 20 years.

I just ran across this from the Pennsylvania Parachute Company web site:

"There is an urban legend out there that states that a parachute has a service life of 20 years. THERE IS NO BASIS IN FACT FOR THIS. A parachute system?s airworthiness is affected by abuse caused by the owner and the number of jumps on the unit. Parachutes can typically handle hundreds of jumps .

Recently, the United States Parachute Association requested clarification on this matter from the FAA.
On August 21, 2012 the FAA replied. The FAA stated that any parachute certified under standards TSO- C23b, TSO C-23c and TSO C-23d did not have a maximum service life. Continued service life of any given parachute unit is to be established by a certificated parachute rigger at the time of inspection and repack of the parachute. No pilot emergency parachutes currently available, have a maximum service life under these criteria. Military parachutes fall under TSO C23b.

If a parachute manufacture wants to establish a maximum service life after receiving their TSO under the above series of TSO?s they must submit their request, with corresponding supporting data, to the FAA for review and request that an Airworthiness Directive be issued by the FAA for that model. This has not happened. A simple recommendation of service life added by the manufacturer to their manual after their TSO has been issued has been deemed by the FAA as a non-regulatory requirement. Continued service life for any given parachute assembly then, is to be determined by the certificated parachute rigger upon inspection of the parachute in question.

If a service life is to be assigned to a model parachute it has to be included as part of the initial TSO process for that model with corresponding data to support that request unless a subsequent AD is issued.

Any parachute rigger that simply refuses to recertify your parachute simply because of its age is doing you a disservice. Find another parachute rigger."
 
Some of you may be interested in buying a used chute. Can't tell you how many times I have heard people tell me that a chute's useful life is 20 years.

"There is an urban legend out there that states that a parachute has a service life of 20 years. THERE IS NO BASIS IN FACT FOR THIS. A parachute system?s airworthiness is affected by abuse caused by the owner and the number of jumps on the unit. Parachutes can typically handle hundreds of jumps .

If a service life is to be assigned to a model parachute it has to be included as part of the initial TSO process for that model with corresponding data to support that request unless a subsequent AD is issued.

Any parachute rigger that simply refuses to recertify your parachute simply because of its age is doing you a disservice. Find another parachute rigger."

As a rigger, and active skydiver since the early 90's. I will add to this. Back in the 90's many riggers would not pack rigs older than 20 years for several reasons. First is that many of the parachutes from the 70's were silk, and did degrade over time. Also there was a lot of advancement in design from the 70's to the late 80's that increased reliability & safety of the rigs (harness & container ).

I won't pack rigs that are from the mid-80's back just because of their design, not specifically because of the age. Rigs built since the late 80's are almost identical (functionally and materials) to rigs being built today.

So I would say if you bought a good condition rig that was up to 25 years old, it will probably still be serviceable for many more years, as it's design is still the same as ones being made today.

Just one riggers opinion.
 
Giddy up!

Most definitely interested, as long as its not too far to travel...and what a great idea. I have 6 hrs dual acro in a Pitts and a Giles and have volunteered at a few IAC contests while my plane was being built so I know how it all works. I plan to fly in at least a couple competitions next year with my RV. I have been reluctant to jump into acro in my newly finished RV however...and its hard to find someone that is experienced in RV acro to do a transition flight.
 
On a related note: market watchers are noticing a sharp spike in demand for used parachutes....
 
age and aerobatics

David, I'm only 2 years younger, and just pasted my 3rd class physical today. On my bucket list is to compete in my RV at 75, which will occur early in 2016. Over time and lots of practice, it seems my body likes to be pushed and pulled to the aircraft limits. And yes, it is addictive.
Bill
RV-4 slider
lower AL:D
 
Great

Ron..let me know if you need help from our chapter. I can have the box open at KLKR anytime which is pretty good size and of IAC shape. it can be shrunk as you progress to work w/whoever decides to take it further.

Let me know. I,m in to help!
 
Yes, I'd be interested. Would like to see more of the curriculum as it gets fleshed out, and understand how prior aerobatic experience would be applied. Have chutes, and a CG-limited RV-4 with rear controls consisting of a stick only.

Tank
Sacramento, CA
 
parachute

I have two parachutes that I can rent during the clinic if needed for longer periods! if needed for the day, I dont mind depending were the clinic is conducted
 
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David, I'm only 2 years younger, and just pasted my 3rd class physical today. On my bucket list is to compete in my RV at 75, which will occur early in 2016. Over time and lots of practice, it seems my body likes to be pushed and pulled to the aircraft limits. And yes, it is addictive.
Bill
RV-4 slider
lower AL:D
And he just won a competition as well ! Age is just a #!
 
I'm in

Smokey.

I think this is a great idea and a means to improve skill and safety. The formation clinic style approach would make the aerobatic clinics a big hit too. I will spread the word.

All the best,

BeeGee
RV-7 N151WP
Lees Summit, MO
KC Flight
 
I'm in !

Ripper is all IN !
Making this setting similar to how formation clinics are organized would be great in learning and popularity. This is also a place to start for those interested in learning formation aerobatics, learn the basics first, practice,practice , practice, then eventually 2 ship and more! Have a chute also.
 
Big news at the IAV/RV Working Group

Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce that IAC President Mike Heuer and IAC Vice President Doug McConnell joined the IAC/RV Working Group this past week. This shows the level of interest that the IAC has in the effort to bring more RV pilots into IAC competition.

According to Mike's post to the group: "We have now finalized the Sportsman through Unlimited Known sequences in both Power and Glider and those will be officially announced on the IAC website this coming week (www.iac.org). However, our Known sequence committee is still working on the Primary sequence.

The one we had last year was deemed by some members as being too simple and hardly worth the expense of coming to an aerobatic contest and then just flying a handful of figures. We wanted something more challenging -- but not so difficult as to be a problem for new entries in competition or the aircraft we want to attract to the category and to competition in general.

When we have the final proposal, I will run it past you guy to see what you think from an RV standpoint."

That's a clear invitation to RV pilots to chime in and voice your opinion. Primary and Sportsman sequences are well within the capabilities of RV aircraft and pilots. I invite you all to come join the IAC/RV Working Group and join the discussion. HERE is a link to the Group. Or send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you an invitation personally.
 
Canopy release for RV-6/7

All,

This topic has just come up in the IAC/RV Working Group. I'm looking for information on the expense in time and money to install a canopy release mechanism for the RV-6/7 sliders. We have a number of pilots who would be excluded from IAC competition if they were not equipped with such a mechanism. Any help appreciated.
 
All,

This topic has just come up in the IAC/RV Working Group. I'm looking for information on the expense in time and money to install a canopy release mechanism for the RV-6/7 sliders. We have a number of pilots who would be excluded from IAC competition if they were not equipped with such a mechanism. Any help appreciated.

I can see the Tip Up to be a problems but not a slider....Typo error?.
 
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Release mechanism for a slider is very simple. Replace the bolts that hold the canopy frame to the rollers with pip pins. Just a few bucks and an hour, and your set.

Pull the pins, open the latch, and no more canopy.

If I am not mistaken, Paul has these on his RV-8. Many others have these also. There is a thread here on VAF for the conversion.
 
Release mechanism for a slider is very simple. Replace the bolts that hold the canopy frame to the rollers with pip pins. Just a few bucks and an hour, and your set.

Pull the pins, open the latch, and no more canopy.

If I am not mistaken, Paul has these on his RV-8. Many others have these also. There is a thread here on VAF for the conversion.

Wish it was that simple for the RV-6/7 pilots with a tip up canopy. Has anyone done a retrofit of the 6/7 canopy release mechanism?
 
I'd be very interested in attending a clinic to learn aerobatics to be proficient within the entire envelope of the -3. Of course, I'm missing a seat (and some other parts right now but that's beside the point. :p) Would be nice at the clinic to have a "trainer" RV-8 and rental parachutes for pilots with a -3 or CG-limited -4 that want to learn and practice.
 
I'd be very interested in attending a clinic to learn aerobatics to be proficient within the entire envelope of the -3. Of course, I'm missing a seat (and some other parts right now but that's beside the point. :p) Would be nice at the clinic to have a "trainer" RV-8 and rental parachutes for pilots with a -3 or CG-limited -4 that want to learn and practice.

Katie,

You finish that -3 and come to a clinic. I'll make sure you have ample opportunity to hone your aerobatic skills in a dual cockpit before turning you loose on your own.
 
I'll be there.

I'm very interested in becoming proficient in every maneuver that is appropriate for my RV-8. At this point I cautiously do loops and my rolls are often washed out.

Years ago, I flew in Marty Foy's RV-4 when he put it through a wonderful routine. It's the reason I was first motivated to build an RV. After flying my own RV for six years, I know that I'm missing half of the reason I built it by not being good at aerobatics.

I have had lessons in Pitts, Extra and Super D. I have even commanded loops & rolls in Mooney's prototype aerobatic 2-seater. But, I know I will not be confident in my -8 until I receive training-in-type.

Let me know when the first clinic is, I'll find a way to bring a chute.

Keith "Pedlar" Vasey
Overland Park, KS
 
Tip up Canopy Release

Smokey,

Im one of those tip up canopy guys without the release mechanism available. I put a GTN 650 in and the radio was so deep I had to essentially remove it, though did create a way to remove the canopy for maintenance. I would be open to making any alteration if anyone can come up with an idea to make it work though.

Richard Rivera
Ormond Beach, FL
RV-7A
 
I'm in

Not interested in competition but would like to polish the rough edges of of my feeble attempts at acro. Will need a chute, already have the pip pins in the canopy. Thanks for working on this bro.
 
All,

The IAC has announced the PRIMARY sequence for 2015. Here it is:


Super RV FRIENDLY sequence! Ron let me know if you need a safety pilot for anyone participating during the clinic or if you want to use my aerobatic practice area at KLKR
 
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I would love to attend. No interest in competition but would like to properly fly Acro in my plane. Have benefited greatly from Formation Clinics.
No chute but would buy one. I'm told by a jump master that using a chute for the very first time in an emergency is mostly to provide padding on impact. I have jumped twice for the experience not training.
Count me as interested. Hopefully out west.
 
Update

Just bought an emergency chute. Did the initial parachute training and one free fall jump a couple of years ago. Gold Coast Skydiving in Lumberton, MS is very good IMHO. They take you to 14,000' in their Twin Otter so you get a good ride. The instructors and photographers are amazing.

Was wondering if a G meter is necessary?

John
 
G meter reqired fpr aerobatics?

John, from my experience, the G meter is not required. When I'm flying a sequence, I don't look at it until I finished the sequence. Between maneuvers, I'm usually looking at the airspeed and altitude. I have two G meters in my airplane. One is in the Dynon 10A and a GT50 which shows time, stop watch, voltage and Gs (current, min, max). I reset the GT50 after every flight or between sequences, but never change the Dynon which records the max plus and minus Gs of the airframe. There is an aerobatic box in Hattiesburg, MS that we used for an aerobatic workshop last summer. E-mail me and I can give you a POC for the box, when they are practicing, etc.
Bill McLean
RV-4 Slider
lower Alabama
 
Was wondering if a G meter is necessary?

IMO, it's a nice thing to have for initial aerobatic training just so you know where you are, and for getting a feel for what 2.5 vs. 4.5G's feels like. Beginner acro students will find 6Gs extremely uncomfortable, and will not be willing to deliberately put near that much load on the airplane. Once you get a feel for what works, there's not much reason to look at the G meter, except maybe between figures or after the flight for curiosity. For really basic messing-around RV acro, a G meter has little value once you develop a basic feel for G-loading. This could be accomplished in another aircraft, RV or otherwise.

Though with precision acro, the G meter can be a useful training tool. I've had folks reference their G meter after a figure while coaching them. If they're not pulling hard enough in the first quarter of a loop to make it round, I'll have them keep increasing their pull until it looks good, and then have them note the G load so they understand where they need to be for their entry airspeed. Probably N/A for nearly everyone in RVs, but the G meter can also be useful for helping to analyze rolling turns. A good 'roller' should show an equal positive and negative G load when completed. Pilots typically start off pulling harder than they push, and the G-meter can be one way to measure what's happening, and to develop a better feel for the maneuver.
 
I've already replied "yes, but no chute." Any idea re probable location(s) for clinic? My -7 is hangered in MD.
 
i am interested, Only thought I have heard is that acrobatic are really hard on the engine and prop and that most serious acro pilots tear diwn their engines annually or semi annually, Is this correct?
Jack
 
...Only thought I have heard is that acrobatic are really hard on the engine and prop and that most serious acro pilots tear diwn their engines annually or semi annually, Is this correct?
Jack

No! Well Sean Tucker rebuilds his whole airplane and pumped up grenade engine each year. The rest of us do not operate that way, or pump our motors that far beyond the design intent. Want 11:1 pistons running hard core unlimited acro? Plan on rebuilding your motor every 300-400 hrs before the crank or case explodes. It happens with those motors. Lazy RV aerobatics will not measurably shorten the life of the engine or prop. My Lycoming AEIO-360 in the Pitts has 1200 hrs on a 1992 overhaul, and sees 3300 RPM on each flight practicing IAC Advanced acro sequences and other fun stuff....a lot harder acro than anyone does in RVs. Engine is still in great shape. I have friends doing the same in their Pitts getting 2000 hrs out of their motor (standard compression). There are lots of variables to engine life. Doing lazy loops and rolls really doesn't enter the equation, so no worries there.
 
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Welcome ParaPhernalia to VAF

Dan T.
There are a whole lot of RV pilots who have been anxiously awaiting your arrival on the forum. Welcome!
 
Thanks Eric, Lord knows at 64 I love playing around and have a good acro friend Mark at Calhoun, Ga ,KCZL so is really after me to get going, he competed over in Europe last year in the US aerobatic team.
Jack
 
Thanks Eric, Lord knows at 64 I love playing around and have a good acro friend Mark at Calhoun, Ga ,KCZL so is really after me to get going, he competed over in Europe last year in the US aerobatic team.
Jack

I know who you're talking about. Don't be surprised if he suckers you into flying a contest. :) One of my goals this year is to make it back to an IAC 3 GA contest.
 
Ron - I would be very interested in attending an RV acro clinic, depending upon the location. However, distance from Washington and Oregon would be a factor. I don't have a chute, but would seriously consider buying a used one, or perhaps if there were enough interest, a group buy on new chutes could reduce the price. I have been wanting to get aerobatic training ever since buying my RV-7 in 2013, but haven't done so yet. The reason is because it seems like everywhere I look, they want to train you in their own Decathalon or Pitts, or whatever. If I could go to an RV specific acro clinic and then continue on with an instructor in my own RV-7, that would be the way that I'd like to do it. Please add my name the list of those interested.
 
Ron - I would be very interested in attending an RV acro clinic, depending upon the location. However, distance from Washington and Oregon would be a factor. I don't have a chute, but would seriously consider buying a used one, or perhaps if there were enough interest, a group buy on new chutes could reduce the price. I have been wanting to get aerobatic training ever since buying my RV-7 in 2013, but haven't done so yet. The reason is because it seems like everywhere I look, they want to train you in their own Decathalon or Pitts, or whatever. If I could go to an RV specific acro clinic and then continue on with an instructor in my own RV-7, that would be the way that I'd like to do it. Please add my name the list of those interested.

Steve,

We did negotiate a group buy of Softie parachutes. Details HERE.

Aerobatic training is typically done in Extras and Pitts or Decathlons because they are certified aircraft and can therefore be used in a commercial "for hire" operation. You can take instruction in a RV but cannot compensate the instructor in his or your experimental airplane.
 
1st 2015 IAC contest in Dunnellon, FL

26-28 Feb 2015 is the IAC Snowbird Acro Classic at Marion County airport (X35). I'm planning on being there with my RV-4. So far no other RVs have registered. Even if you are not ready to compete, it's a good chance to visit, ask questions, and see the best free airshow around. Some of the members on our US World team will be there to compete. Check NOTAMS before arriving and DON"T FLY OVER THE AIRPORT. The aerobatic box is located on the northwest side of the airport. The airfield is open to general aviation during the contest. Hope to see some RVers there.

Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama:)
 
Acro and IAC

I competed back when I had my Pitts. I loved it. Spend a long weekend with your fiends and have them critique you up one side and down the other. Not sure why it was so fun, but it was. :) I miss it.

Now that I have an RV I have gotten away from acro and am enjoying formation immensly. Very fun also. Go figure.

I had a single seat Pitts so my istruction was from a ground observer. Works very well once you have the basics solidly instilled. Back in the day, you could get a solo checkout in CHD's S2B. This came with some excellent and much needed spin sequence training. Invertd, upright, accelerated, flat etc.

I really enjoyed my Pitts and I miss the aggressive style of acro you can do with that airframe. In my RV I putt around sticking to positive, gentlemans' (so to speak) aerobatics. Fun, but definately a big notch down from competition.

I don't have any inverted systems in my RV either so that puts some limits to IAC contrst flying. I have chutes (Dan T's finest wedge softies) but have doubts that I can remove my tip up 6 canopy. I do know though that without a chute on, none of it matters.

When I was getting my conditional done recently we removed the canopy so I could see how it worked mechanically. It was difficult to do in the hangar with two of us. Pulling the canopy release was even difficult.

Regardless, I am very interested in participating in a clinic if one comes close enough for me to get to. (Wx, work, winds permitting)

If there were a developed known from the IAC I would like to jump in. However I would like to have something along the lines of an 8 to 10 manuever known rather than say 5. Just greedy I guess.

Cathy
 
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