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Flap Switch protection

M

mattsmith

Well Known Member
Hello all,
I have my Infinity grip all most installed and am worrying about the flaps. I have sat in the plane a few times and made airplane sounds and have a concern about the flap switch on the grip being accidentally bump at above flap deployment speed. I have the Show Planes three position flap system so just a bump will yield 10 Degrees, talked with Safety trim and was told there system would not work with the Show Planes system, so wondering how others got past this. I don?t like the idea of putting a switch on the panel to enable the stick switch (one more thing to forget to do in the pattern) but was thinking about a shield that goes over the toggle on the stick so it can?t be bumped, has anyone ever seen something like this or have a another safety for the flaps?
 
I would not put the flap switch on the stick grip. Nothing good will happen if you accidentally bump the switch.
 
Matt,

I have not personally installed one, but I know there are a number of airspeed switches available. If it is a major concern, a switch that removes power to the circuit can be easily installed, and (I think) they can be programmed for almost any airspeed you like. Check out Aircraft Spruce, I know they carry several types.
 
flyinga said:
I would not put the flap switch on the stick grip. Nothing good will happen if you accidentally bump the switch.
Click to expand...

That's a valid opinion, but there are countless RV's flying with the flap switch on the stick without problems. I agree that having it on a preselect system is a little different - for most, if they bump the switch, they get a degree or two before noticing and stopping - no harm done. With the pre-select, the stick switch option might be less desirable.

There are several threads on the topic of flap switches on sticks, and folks on both sides of the issue, but I know of NO instances in which having the switch on the stick has been determined as the cause of a mishap or aircraft damage.

Paul
 
Such are the perils of automatic systems. The law of unintended consequences always prevails. A simple flap switch without presets would probably be the most error-tolerant and reliable system.

The VP system sounds like a good fail-safe but consider what happens during a forced landing when extending flaps above Vfe may be the safest course of action. It's better to bend the flaps rather than destroy the airplane or worse.

I think a flap Vfe warning system would be better, and I think VP can provide a warning rather than a override.

I've said it before... better to give a warning to the pilot and let him/her make the decision rather than automatically take action. Think Boeing vs. Airbus.

V
 
vlittle said:
The VP system sounds like a good fail-safe but consider what happens during a forced landing when extending flaps above Vfe may be the safest course of action. It's better to bend the flaps rather than destroy the airplane or worse.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with this statement 100%. Keep in mind that if flaps are deployed at a high speed, you may not only damage the flaps but also the rear spar. Those flaps place quite a load on the rear spar. Loosing a wing can ruin your day.
 
I have had the flaps on my stick...

on both my RV-8 (nearly 500 flight hours) and now my RV-10 (just over 500 flight hours).

I honestly don't see what the issue is. I (and the many non-pilots in the right seat) have never bumped the flaps down (or up for that matter).

The flap limiting speed is for full flaps (not half flaps). It would take a mighty inattentive pilot to not notice the pitch trim change of even the beginning of flap deployment.

I personally like the flaps on the stick. It makes perfect sense (to me anyway) that both the trim china hat and the flaps are right next to one another.

In my opinion, no safety cover or flap cutout switch on the panel is needed.

Just my 0.02.
 
mounted mine on throttle

I recently mounted my flap switch on the throttle - won't be playing with that control very much in cruise flight, and it's out of the water-bottle-and-snack zone.
Plane02
 
Switch Guards-The Simple Solution

mattsmith said:
Hello all,
I have my Infinity grip all most installed and am worrying about the flaps. I have sat in the plane a few times and made airplane sounds and have a concern about the flap switch on the grip being accidentally bump at above flap deployment speed. I have the Show Planes three position flap system so just a bump will yield 10 Degrees, talked with Safety trim and was told there system would not work with the Show Planes system, so wondering how others got past this. I don?t like the idea of putting a switch on the panel to enable the stick switch (one more thing to forget to do in the pattern) but was thinking about a shield that goes over the toggle on the stick so it can?t be bumped, has anyone ever seen something like this or have a another safety for the flaps?
Click to expand...

Hi Matt, I have an identical system with infinity grip, flap switch, and show planes flap positioning system. I went through many ruminations trying to figure out how to get rid of this boogeyman. Ultimately, I fabricated custom aluminum switch-guard bushings which press-fit into the ID of the switch recess on the infinity grips. I think that you will find that a switch guard of the proper length prevents inadvertent flap action while allowing intentional action. I have rested my hand on top of the stick and the flaps will not deploy - you need to use your fingertip to get the flaps to come down. I can post some photos if you like, but it is pretty simple - just a small bushing whose OD is just a little bigger than the recess ID, wall thickness about .030". No additional electronics or complexity, and no damaging your wing (or otherwise ruining your day) from inadvertent flap deployment at Vne!
 
Noah,
I would like to see a picture of your switch guard, it sounds like a perfect answer to my problem. Thanks
 
Matt,
I have the same setup that you describe. Keep in mind that the Infinity flap switch is 3 positions. I keep it UP in flight (obviously). The center is OFF. If you bump the switch it might go to OFF. - No harm there! If you bumped it again, the way the show planes system works, is a momentary engagement only moves the flaps a "momentary" amount. You have to hold the switch at least 1/2 second or so to get the "first notch" of flap deployment. Pretty safe system if you ask me.
 
Matt, I'll take a picture & post it when I get home from work - I thought I had one but couldn't find it. One word of caution, the left handed and right handed stick are made from different molds, and the ID of the switch recess is a little different for each. I made two identical bushings only to discover than only one fit, the other one was sloppy / wouldn't stay in place. It's tricky to measure this ID with the switch installed. If you're in a position to easily remove the switches, it would be worth it to determine what lettered drill will fit snugly in the hole - that's the outer dia of the bushing you'll need to make. I didn't remove my switches, but rather just made a bunch of bushings until one of them fit properly. Of course, you could bond the bushing in place, as long as you're real careful with the eopxy!
 
Here you go. My switch guards could be a little longer. Obviously you could make them so long that you need a fingernail to operate the flaps. That's probably a bit much, but a little shorter you will be able to operate the switch with your fingertip and there is no way you will deploy the flaps from inadvertently resting an airport directory or something on the stick.





 
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Thanks Noah,
that looks exactly like what I want to do. Does the press fit work or should I have a machinist cut threads on the inside of the bushing and use it to hold the toggle switch instead of the nut.
 
I have an infinity grip........

flaps are on the stick and I love it. I am a new pilot and not much experience, but in over 100 hrs. have never inadvertently hit this switch. One thing I found in doing T&G's is that having the switch for retracting the flaps "stay on position" is really nice, but you need to put a pressure switch on the flaps to kill the motor when fully up.

"Your Hog & Your Corn", but I really don't think it's an issue.
 
mattsmith said:
Thanks Noah,
that looks exactly like what I want to do. Does the press fit work or should I have a machinist cut threads on the inside of the bushing and use it to hold the toggle switch instead of the nut.
Click to expand...

The press fit works fine. My bushings measure .419" OD for the left and .412 for the right.
 
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