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How to fix a gas can...

Although this isnt exactly aircraft orientated, its the next best subject near and dear to our well being .....FUEL !

I would guess most of us have this problem with the new screwed up 5 gallon gas cans the government has forced us to buy, Ya cant carry much gas in your pocket !

Heres how to get around it. This was sent to me by one of our more proflic EZ flyers and I thought the info would be handy for every one of us !!

A pox on the government for thinking up these crappy saftey cans.

Vance Atkinson





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lcnwdIYEfI




There are replacement yellow flip open vent tabs on EBay instead of using the valve stem shown in the video.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261152083357
 
I did something similar but in addition am using a nozzle I made with my 3D printer. Works awesome.
 
He doesn't address how long the tire valve will last when exposed to fuel. I don't know the answer, but I do know that a 'plug' that comes in a DIY flat fixit kit will swell up & disintegrate fairly quickly if it's used to plug the vent hole (to replace a cracked cap) in one of the old style cans.

Charlie
 
What would make a bullet proof vent is a #4 AN union fitting prosealed in the can and a B-nut cap.
 
Unfortunately, this doesn't really address the newest (and worst) version of the gas cans with the spring-loaded spout.

Greg

Greg,
I tried to pour some gas from my ATV can into my truck the other day and I tried using a pencil to hold the spring down so the gas could go in. I tried to pull the pencil out and the eraser caught, fell off into the gas tank. Im not sure how ling it takes for the eraser to dissolve, but I hope not too long!

My truck doesn't even have a cap. It just has that spring loaded thing I hate.
 
The racing-type fuel cans are not good IMO (I have some), they require you to hold the can in an awkward position since the vent is near the neck. I modified my squarish ventless cans with the stupid spouts to use a truck tire stem like the video (this is an old trick BTW) but I designed a new nozzle to go on the can which replaces the "safety" spouts with one that is much shorter and takes a short length of 1-14" ID hose. I can empty a can in a matter of seconds into tank in the RV. In fact I put a towel on the wing and the geometry is such that I can start pouring and rest the can on the wing while it empties. I designed the spout in Solidworks and printed it with my Reprap 3D printer. I can post the .STL file on Thingiverse if anyone is interested. It works great.
 
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The racing-type fuel cans are not good IMO (I have some), they require you to hold the can in an awkward position since the vent is near the neck. I modified my squarish ventless cans with the stupid spouts to use a truck tire stem like the video (this is an old trick BTW) but I designed a new nozzle to go on the can which replaces the "safety" spouts with one that is much shorter and takes a short length of 1-14" ID hose. I can empty a can in a matter of seconds into tank in the RV. In fact I put a towel on the wing and the geometry is such that I can start pouring and rest the can on the wing while it empties. I designed the spout in Solidworks and printed it with my Reprap 3D printer. I can post the .STL file on Thingiverse if anyone is interested. It works great.


Any photos?
 
Interesting thread. I had made all of the mods on my containers except the vent.

The ebay link does not thread on so there is the change it will open in transit but otherwise, it looks worth doing (since my gas cans only travel 4 miles in the back of my truck to get to my RV-8).
 
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http://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Scepter-Diesel-Water-Replacement/dp/B000MTCQO2
http://www.rotopax.com/Conventional-Spout-Set.html
http://www.shopping.com/6-versaflex-cr-flexible/zAAmXW6SBXAZeNiZwi0gvg==/info?sb=1
You can buy 'replacement parts' that are made to fit your new style can, and have the old fashioned 'good' spout, plus a snap shut vent. you drill a 1/2 hole on the can (in the correct place) and snap the vent in.
The new cans are really good. I like the top and side handle red 5 gallon poly plastic can with the 'replacement parts' nozzle & vent.
I also have the VP racing fuel cans, which hold 6 gallons each. Those I set on the wing and use a "Safety Syphon" to decant. The have a large diameter cap with a threaded plug that takes (I think 1/2" npt) a pipe nipple so you can put a ball valve and hose on a cap. Then you can up end the can of gas, insert the hose in the tank, then open the valve. Then open the vent and it goes in fast.
 
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Non RV and Non Aviation Post

This post does not relate to RV's and doesn't relate to anything aviation related, but yet it is still here. While it is interesting, it does not conform to the posting rules.

My two cents worth.
 
This post does not relate to RV's and doesn't relate to anything aviation related, but yet it is still here. While it is interesting, it does not conform to the posting rules.

My two cents worth.


Dunno, lots of folks transport Mogas for their planes.
 
Some of us even keep some Avgas at home for our RV-10 in one of these things. I have 8. I despise those new spouts.
 
How far we've come

Sorry to get philosophical, but as someone who works in the tech sector, I'm often baffled by the constant "innovation" I see. These cans are a great example. Are we really making the world safer by designing products that are impossible to use?

I guess that's what I love so much about aviation and RVs. There's an "old-fashionedness" and healthy respect for the true innovation of past designers. "Total Performance" for an airplane has a pretty clear definition, and some very smart people figured out what that was a long time ago.

Now is this thread more RV related?

;)

M
 
I'm often baffled by the constant "innovation" I see. These cans are a great example. Are we really making the world safer by designing products that are impossible to use?

Pretty sure the new style units are mandated by NFPA/OSHA/EPA etc regulations.
 
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I've been doing this on all of the self venting cans.. They are all junk.. No problems with the rubber on the nipple deteriorating yet.
 
This post does not relate to RV's and doesn't relate to anything aviation related, but yet it is still here. While it is interesting, it does not conform to the posting rules.

My two cents worth.

Not true....I just had to use three of these awefull devices to calibrate my fuel tanks. Ton's of people use em to get mogas for their planes....
 
I designed the spout in Solidworks and printed it with my Reprap 3D printer. I can post the .STL file on Thingiverse if anyone is interested. It works great.
Sweet. Show us some other things you printed with it aviation related.
 
CARB Compliant

I just got back from buying groceries at WalMart. Because of this thread, I looked at their gas cans to see if they were different in any way. The plastic cans on the shelves look identical to the one I've been using for my lawn mower for years.

I looked on Amazon, and found that they carry cans that are "CARB compliant". Perhaps my local WalMart carrys the old style cans because Utah isn't subject to the these CARB regulations.

What about other places?
 
I just got back from buying groceries at WalMart. Because of this thread, I looked at their gas cans to see if they were different in any way. The plastic cans on the shelves look identical to the one I've been using for my lawn mower for years.

I looked on Amazon, and found that they carry cans that are "CARB compliant". Perhaps my local WalMart carrys the old style cans because Utah isn't subject to the these CARB regulations.

What about other places?

I bought one of these dreadful things yesterday for wife's car. She wanted nothing to do with it so guess I'll have to "loan" her one of my precious mogas cans. I returned it. Funny this thread came up, I just ranted about it last nite...Don't know if it's mandated here in the Peoples Repub of Oregon, but no surprise if it is...

Jerry
 
Well, just back from the Homeless Despot store and bought a sacrificial gas can (one of the newest versions, with the "spring" spout). It appears to be reverse-engineerable. I cut off the green "locking" ring on the spout, threw it away. Cut off the "locking ring" that keeps the spout on the can, threw it away. Put a drill into the can end of the spout and basically ripped the guts out of it. There are a couple springs and an bunch of plastic **** in there, all of which can eventually be pulled out if you work at it a bit. This leaves the two-piece spout (two pieces because they used to slide one inside the other as part of the locking device). Good use for a dab of proseal to make sure this part of the spout doesn't leak, add one of the valve stems per the video, and I believe it will be good to go. Still allows for reversing the spout and storing in the can.

The cans I get are from Scepter, so maybe the replacement spout that Shipchief mentioned will work, though some of the reviews make it sound questionable. Possibly worth $6 to find out.

Cheers,
Greg
 
I just got back from buying groceries at WalMart. Because of this thread, I looked at their gas cans to see if they were different in any way. The plastic cans on the shelves look identical to the one I've been using for my lawn mower for years.

I looked on Amazon, and found that they carry cans that are "CARB compliant". Perhaps my local WalMart carrys the old style cans because Utah isn't subject to the these CARB regulations.

What about other places?

I suggest you buy all you think you might need for a lifetime - they are gone from anywhere I've looked in recent months.

Greg
 
Here's another candidate.

http://tinyurl.com/d6nrpeb

I don't own one. I just found this by Googlin'. YMMV. ;)

Hmmm...the price this afternoon was $16.99. Now it's "Check availability and pricing."

P.S. Now it links to a page with five different containers.
 
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This post does not relate to RV's and doesn't relate to anything aviation related, but yet it is still here. While it is interesting, it does not conform to the posting rules.

My two cents worth.

Just came back from the aerodrome after using my newly modded gas cans to dump 10 gallons of non-contaminated mogas into the RV-6. Not sure who was happier, the RV-6 for getting a drink or me for saving $15 over the price of airport fuel. :D

The can mods worked great. Definitely an RV topic.
 
photos

Closeup of the nozzle I printed with my 3D printer. I printed it with olive green filament.
IMAGE_4ECA0F6A-2390-401E-99DB-C3F185F5A74D.JPG


The whole shooting match, nozzle is sized for 1-1/4" hose:
IMAGE_3B843F76-05D7-4DCB-BC04-20DBD46E7B14.JPG


Hose is just long enough to keep fuel from spilling while "in-transit" to flat on the wing:
IMAGE_DF031486-C51D-432B-B891-C0C2F040FB21.JPG


Closeup of nozzle on can, its large enough that I don't need to remove anything but the clear hose to fill at the gas station:
IMAGE_4AF237BE-6EDD-4633-AC73-7A3B93F247FD.JPG


Bacon sandwich I had for lunch a few days ago. Bacon crumbles, slaw, and Voodoo mayo. Yummy.
IMAGE_7C71A57B-2319-44A4-90D1-9B3767512F0A.JPG
 
That spout is great!
The sandwich, I'm not so sure about.
I've heard about 3D printing, didn't know the 'art' is that advanced. Can you print up a lycoming connecting rod yet?
 
Can you print up a lycoming connecting rod yet?

Yes entirely possible, just not practical right now to do laser sintering 3D printing. At least at the hobby level. I understand that Boeing is now experimenting with large-scale aluminum 3D printing, where they could 3D print a spar, for example.
 
Mr. Funnel

I will continue to use the modified "trigger" spouts that came on the can. I pump straight into the cans at the gas station, but all mogas that goes into the RV-6 goes through a Mr. Funnel to trap any moisture or crud. The modified spout won't flow as fast as a large diameter unrestricted spout but it flows about right for the filter funnel.

I learned the value of the Mr. Funnel twenty years ago after a load of dirty fuel put my Fisher Super Koala in a pasture.
 
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what a great thread, i have been going absolutely nuts with my new gas can.. i haven't timed how long it takes to empty but it feels like 5 minutes. (5 gallons. That one with the clear end is what i call a double big gulp nozzle. perfection.
 
I really like that idea.

We transport ALL our gas for the RV-12 from the local gas station in 5 gallon cans and it seem like it takes forever to fill. We have one can we trust that won't splash the window.

Thanks for posting, I have been looking into larger systems but I would still have to fill it from 5 gallon cans. I will give it a shot.
 
I don't know if it's true, but I was told the reason for the self venting in the fill nozzle, was to slow the fuel down, to stop the static electricity build up in the plastic can. The faster the fuel flows, the greater potential for a spark.
 
What I do - -

I fill the fast-flow can thru a Mr. Funnel, then thru a special funnel I made that fits the filler neck. Dumps it quickly. I have posted those pictures before.
 
Safety concerns

I have been anxiously awaiting this thread to go down the route(s) of electrical grounding methods and fire extinguishers. When we buy self-service fuel, we always ground the plane to the pump, don't we? Seems to me a small, coiled ground wire should be attached to the plane somewhere. I didn't notice the good ol' boys in the video including that topic, nor did I expect them to.

I've seen a chart that describes the likelihood of static electricity with the decrease of relative humidity, but I can't find it right now. On dry days self-feelers should be especially aware of the likelihood of static electricity.

And a small, CO2 or Halon fire extinguisher should be available outside the plane especially if it is being refueled inside the hangar. A dry powder fire extinguisher would be my last choice for any fuel fire on the airplane itself.

Should this become a new thread? Maybe so...in any case, y'all be careful out there!
 
I elected to go another way, as an old guy lifting those containers seemed a bit much for me. By putting it all in one container with a pump, seemed to be a better way for me. I have not actually used it yet, mostly because of no provisions for grounding, and static electricity scares me - a lot!
210d63l.jpg
[/IMG]
 
And a small, CO2 or Halon fire extinguisher should be available outside the plane especially if it is being refueled inside the hangar.

I will absolutely never fuel my plane inside a hangar....hope others won't either. Probably violates code at most airports.
 
Have you ever checked yourself with an OHM meter?
Yes, you have measurable resistance. That means you also have conductance as well.
If you are holding the gas can and touching the airplane, you are slowly depleting any voltage between the fuel container and the aircraft.
The Safety siphon claims their hose is static proof, so it must conduct electricity sufficient to prevent the build up of a static charge, presuming the hose is touching the tank.
I don't think you should fuel your plane while wearing an angora sweater :rolleyes:
 
A REAL gas can

I'll second Sam's comments about using a Mister Funnel. For my money, I think that all of the plastic gas cans are worthless. I live in SE Florida [hurricane central]. Every summer, I stock up on fuel, to be saved for emergencies. Fuel is purchased in early June [Sta-Bil added] and if I'm lucky [no hurricane] the fuel is used in October.
It has been my experience over the past 15 years that plastic gas cans [stored inside] can not be relied upon to stay fuel tight for that period of time, in 90+ degree heat. The best gas cans I've found are old [mine are 1969 to 1972 vintage] surplus NATO military 20 liter cans. I paid about $13 each for mine at a military surplus store.
As old as they are, the red interior coating is still intact. The E10 fuel has not harmed that coating. They have the most positive lock on the lid you will ever see. They absolutely do not leak liquid or vapor. I found the photos below on the Internet, as I never took any photos of mine. The one in the first photo is a 2002 model. My 30+ year old cans look just as good. These can be really pricey, unless you are willing to hunt for a good deal. They are definitely worth it. My plastic cans now go unused.

NATOcan1_zpsaafcf3a2.jpg


Lid latch detailed below

NATOcan2_zpsa3aec750.jpg


NATOcan3_zps95751984.jpg


Red coated interior clearly visible

NATOcan4_zps3542e31e.jpg


High quality nozzles are also available for these cans. The nozzles have the same locking feature as the lid.

One of my customers had the misfortune to store his "hurricane" gas in plastic 5 gallon cans [the older style] outside. This past winter, he blindly poured the fuel into his minivan. He had to tow it to my shop. I pumped out 19 gallons of fuel and 6 gallons of water! :eek: 'Nuff said.

Charlie
 
And a small, CO2 or Halon fire extinguisher should be available outside the plane especially if it is being refueled inside the hangar. A dry powder fire extinguisher would be my last choice for any fuel fire on the airplane itself.

Should this become a new thread? Maybe so...in any case, y'all be careful out there!
For the VAFers in Australia, be aware that overwing refuelling is strictly forbidden inside hangars under the CAO's, so if something goes wrong and you burn down your hangar and your mates Spamcan, you'll be about as popular as a turd in a wedding punchbowl when they find out your insurer has refused the claim.
 
IMHO I don't think a fire extinguisher would do you much good if a fire started as you were filling your gas tank. I don't think I could run fast enough to get out of dodge.
 
IMHO I don't think a fire extinguisher would do you much good if a fire started as you were filling your gas tank. I don't think I could run fast enough to get out of dodge.

Actually happened to a friend of mine, fueling a 6A (outside, of course). IIRC, he was able to get the can away from the plane & his vehicle, and extinguish the flames without any damage to the plane. Remember, the gas *in* the tank & can won't burn; just the fumes outside the containers. He won't fuel from cans any more, though. :)

Charlie
 
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