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The Red Pitts Keeps Staring At Me

It morphed to this.

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It's a ways off, but I plan to own a light, simple S-1C one of these days. I only hope that my rudder skills don't degrade so much by then that I can't fly it. With the Hiperbipe in the hangar, at least I got to keep the skills honed after too much time in the RV. And if it had been a while in the RV, the HB sure let me know my feet were lazy!

You won't have any problems. I was flying the pitts and stearman at the same time and you can't get any further apart than that. One rudder very sensitive with one inch throw, the other very stiff with two foot throw.
 
The pitts is fun for about 50 hrs, then I got tired of it. You couldn't go anywhere and it was expensive to fly. It only held 29 gl and burned 15/hr.
However, yours would be less with smaller engine. The 30 minutes of acro was fun, but the 8 hrs of headache that followed was not. I kept making myself sick doing that stuff and that was 10 yrs ago when I was a young pup. Hate to think what it would do to me now.

Speak for yourself, but if you have physiological issues with aerobatics, or don't have serious acro interest to begin with, then yeah a Pitts may lose its luster once you get over liking the idea of having a Pitts. There are some who like the idea, but not the reality of having a Pitts. And then there are many others who are life-long Pitts nuts.

Curious why you had such a long headache after doing acro. What were you doing? Were pushing hard negative G, or just typical -1G stuff? I ask because when I first started pushing hard (-4G or so) before I built a tolerance, I would have a slight headache for hours afterwards. I don't know how it happens, but your body typically acclimates, and it's no longer an issue for me - no more headaches.

Your situation could have been different though. Most people - even those who are not flying hard aerobatics nor have a high G tolernace, don't get headaches from positive G. It's also unusual to continue to make yourself sick, assuming you have built some G tolerance and have flown acro with enough regularity to acclimate. These issues fade quickly for most, but everyone is different of course.
 
It was the negative stuff. Outside loop or lomcevaks where the biggest culprits. I do miss the landings as the rv is somewhat boring in this aspect. I did get used to the headaches, but if I went a couple of weeks without acro, they would come back. Your right about the positive stuff, as it never bothered me.
 
Bite the bullet and go fly a Pitts. I've flown and owned a Pitts of some flavor over the past 20 years and know I'll never be without at least one. I currently have a S2-A and a nice little S1. I'll agree with the others comments, they aren't good for XC, but great for clearing your mind and becoming an extension of you. Don't let the ground handling bother you too much, they are as squirrelly as you make them. The demand a lot of attention and respect. Let's face it, they are always looking to stuff you in a ditch, you just have to step up and show it who's boss.
Good luck, you'll love it!
 
You won't have any problems. I was flying the pitts and stearman at the same time and you can't get any further apart than that. One rudder very sensitive with one inch throw, the other very stiff with two foot throw.

I agree I was flying my j3 cub right before I sold the Pitts. It was fun jumping in one then the other 45 min apart.
 
Pitts

Pitts is good for XC just not great and certainly not comfortable. Sherman TX to Syracuse NY in one day, Phoenix Philadelphia in two days with 11 am start both days, horrid weather much of the way. Syracuse Lakeland one day, no radio, no starter, just a chart and a compass.
A S2B and a Eagle have crossed the N Atlantic.
 
I bought my pitts in Portland and flew it to TN. It was the best trip of my life, but wouldn't want to do it again. Can't move or pick anything up. Back started hurting, so had to fly inverted to relieve the strain. Then head starts hurting and have to start process over. I enjoyed it while I had it, but not near as much as I do the RV.
 
I think it was Budd Davisson that once said 'There are airplanes....and then there are Pitts'.

I've built/owned about 28 or 29 RV's and Rockets now and have flown countless others. I think just about any pilot has yearned for a Pitts at one time or another and I was no exception.

When the engine exploded in the RV10 and I almost burned alive I didn't know if I'd ever want to fly again. I still don't 'have' to fly and was (am still am) very afraid every time I got in an airplane....just wondering when 'this engine' was going to explode and cover the windscreen with oil. It was during this time that I convinced myself that I 'needed' a Pitts. My little S1-S is dubbed 'Doctors Orders' as it was/is my way of getting over my fear. I'm SO BUSY FLYING the airplane that I don't have time to think about anything else. It has served it purpose 100%. Only problem is when I get back into any RV they feel like dump trucks :eek: :D :eek: :D. The S1-S is an amazing airplane and will do exactly what you tell it to do....right now. I NEVER KNEW what the rudder pedals were for until I climbed into the Pitts. I absolutely love every minute in the Pitts and the landings are my favorite by far. NOTHING beats slipping onto the runway and 3 pointing the Pitts. I have a lot to learn but this is an airplane that I will never outgrow :eek: :D.

Other than being a real 'pilots' airplane, I can take the Pitts out for 20 minutes and REALLY feel like I did something. I could never do that in the RV's or Rocket's. Cheap and easy way to wring out your mind and learn something every time you fly. I will agree that it's not the best for traveling but it can be done, I have a pretty good size baggage area in the turtledeck. Best to have one of each IMO :rolleyes:.





 
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Syndicated...

All this Pitts talk makes me want mine back. Impossible as it died a firey death in the Hondo fire of '01, but I wonder......what a perfect life it would be (like it isn't already) if I found an RV lover with a Pitts and we could trade as needed/desired.
Talk about the best of both worlds. XC when you want in my RV, and yank to your hearts content in the Pitts.

Ohh, life would be just too good then. Who is in AZ with a Pitts that wants some RV time? :)
 
The dark side got me

I sold my RV4 and bought this Pitts S1C. Haven't flown it yet and the anticipation is killing me. Going to spend some time with Bud Davisson next week. Hoping my feet don't fail me.
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Stop it!!!!

Guys,

Please stop this thread....... you have me looking at adverts for an S2!!

I have always loved the Pitts and bought a part completed Skybolt several years ago. The plan was finish my 4, then finish the Skybolt.

Then I got persuaded to build the 9 and then I bought a part completed Loehle Mustang. When I got the 4 to the airfield for completion the Mustang took its place in my workshop as I reckon there is only 500 hrs work left on it and it wil be the first on the UK register.

So once that is done..... the Skybolt!! But you guys have got me looking at Pitts!! Its torture..... when will I be able to build my Spitfire???

Please stop!!
 
Wise decision

Years ago I asked delmar Benjamin if the gee bee was hard to land. He said " it depends on the pilot"

If you don't have very good basic flying skills, it will eat your lunch. If you have good basic tail wheel skills or an aptitude for them, you can learn to land the Pitts. The S1S is an order more challenging than the s2, in my opinion. If you are ham fisted or footed you will have a hard time with an airplane that was designed to respond to a deft touch.

That said, it's a pilots airplane that is a joy to fly and a challenge to land.

Good luck and make sure you are well prepared, there won't be anyone to save your bacon if it gets ugly.

Cm
 
Nice S1C

Bryan, that's a nice S1C with spring gear, which will make the landings a little easier. I have owned three S1's, S1C, a factory S1S, and a modified experimental(factory fuze) S1S. The last was a blast. It took me about a
100 landings to get my right hand to stop sweating, especially in cross winds.
Your spades are on the inside so crosswinds will be easy(well, maybe not easy) but some not "purty". After 15 years flying a Pitts it always seemed like every 100 landings or so there was one that was ugly ugly. And if you are "pushing" on the rudder, it's got to be way too much, just a 1/4 inch or so......yep...(with 3 inches added rudder width )
I could never get beyond a 15 know crosswind, spades a few inches from the ground, spring gear that would "shoot" you off the runway if touching in a crab. But what a dream to fly, put six gallons of gas in her(4 in tank, 2 in header) and she performed like a different acro mount. Loved to fly it. Curtis did a fine job. Curtis always said he didn't build that airplane to do wheel landings, so don't do those either.

BTW, your spring gear does not have "cuffs" on them. This will cause buffeting in the tail, more on hammers. 160mph entry speed (about) on hammer, 140mph stall, buffet. I didn't like it so on went the cuffs.

When you get to feeling she is a part of you, home free, but never ever stop flying her until the prop is stopped.

Have fun.;)
 
Miss my Pitts S1S

Steve is right..........this a painful thread. My first home built was a Pitts S1S and I still miss her!

I had plenty of tailwheel time, but wisely decided to get a checked out in a Pitts S2A before my first flight in the S1S. I had that first takeoff completely mapped out in my mind from the first move of the throttle until the rotation. That all went out the window after reaching full throttle, and the 180 horsepower started yanking that 760 lbs airframe. The takeoff was more like a launch! I remember feeling like I had a tiger by the tail. It was the most exciting takeoff I had ever made without afterburner!

Aerobatics in the Pitts is effortless, and mades you look much better than you are! The single seat Pitts does aerobatics like a race horse loves to run. She truly does what you think with control harmony that I've never experienced in any other aircraft.

I was hoping that my checkout in the S2A would prepare me for that first landing, but the single seater is more demanding, and requires a lighter touch.
It's not that the Pitts is hard to land, it's not! It is the most controllable airplane I've ever flown. But a light touch is mandatory. If the airplane heads toward the edge of the runway, it is because the pilot put in too much rudder correction for a deviation from the center line. The lack of forward vis in the flair, and the fact that you can not see the runway if you are over it, is the reason for most of the scary stories.

I sold my Pitts because I needed the money, and cried as she taxied away. Later I purchased a share of a Christen Eagle II which had much nicer manners on the runway.

I don't think the Pitts is for everyone, but for those of us that have experienced the crisp, balanced, responsive extension of your soul that is a Pitts S1, flying will never be the same.

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The day dad flew the Pitts
 
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Aerobatics in the Pitts is effortless, and mades you look much better than you are!

I think rather it might make you feel you're better than you are...that is until you get some ground critiquing. :) Due to light controls, a Pitts definitely requires less physical effort than many types, but requires the same amount of concentration and skill to fly high quality figures compared to any other type. If you think a Pitts has light controls, fly a Giles sometime. :)
 
Fly a Giles..........Love too!

"If you think a Pitts has light controls, fly a Giles sometime"


A friend let me fly his Extra 300S once, and I'd love to experience the Giles. I bet I'll be waiting along time for some one to hand me the keys to one!
 
A friend let me fly his Extra 300S once, and I'd love to experience the Giles. I bet I'll be waiting along time for some one to hand me the keys to one!

The 300S is more airplane than a Giles...and one of the best flying Extras. Flies much better than the heavy, doggy (as Extras go) 300L. If I had $450K burning a hole in my pocket, I'd pick up a new 330SC...but I'd also keep the Pitts. :)
 
Extra 230

I flew the original G-200 back in the mid nineties when Richard was bringing it around to contests. It was the fastest rolling plane I have ever flown. But I agree with Eric - it's almost too light on the controls. It was not nearly as nicely balanced as a Pitts, even my truck-like (for a Pitts) S2B. I love the single seat Pitts. Most fun and bang for the buck in any plane ever. Every time I look through Barnstormers I nearly buy one of the projects for sale.

But if you really want to fly the nicest handling plane ever, you should search out an Extra 230. It doesn't roll as fast as the 300S, or have the power, but it becomes an extension of yourself like no other aircraft ever will. Snap rolls in any attitude at any airspeed are exquisite. The CG is right in your belly, so the wildest tumbles throw you around about as much as a somersault across your living room floor. Going around corners at 6-7 G's feels like you are on rails. Once you learn how to present it to the judges, it really WILL make you look better than you are! I sold mine because I was building the Model 12 Pitts, and have missed her ever since.

The current owner of mine, 444PW, lives in Miami, called me last week to talk about the history of her, and has told me I can come down and fly her again! I can't wait!
 
If we are discussing aerobatic mounts, anyone have any experience of the handling of the CAP 232 that they can tell us about? Or the Zlin 50?
John
 
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rudder

I think rather it might make you feel you're better than you are...that is until you get some ground critiquing. :) Due to light controls, a Pitts definitely requires less physical effort than many types, but requires the same amount of concentration and skill to fly high quality figures compared to any other type. If you think a Pitts has light controls, fly a Giles sometime. :)

A pilot who flies the figures well in a Pitts is really doing something well.
Every movement of the throttle, or stick requires a response on the rudder. That big metal prop on that tiny airframe is a force to dealt with too. The response changes with speed. Its hard to explain unless you have flown one but I have great respect for the guys who have won contests with a Pitts.

cm
 
Bryan, that's a nice S1C with spring gear, which will make the landings a little easier. I have owned three S1's, S1C, a factory S1S, and a modified experimental(factory fuze) S1S. The last was a blast. It took me about a
100 landings to get my right hand to stop sweating, especially in cross winds.
Your spades are on the inside so crosswinds will be easy(well, maybe not easy) but some not "purty". After 15 years flying a Pitts it always seemed like every 100 landings or so there was one that was ugly ugly. And if you are "pushing" on the rudder, it's got to be way too much, just a 1/4 inch or so......yep...(with 3 inches added rudder width )
I could never get beyond a 15 know crosswind, spades a few inches from the ground, spring gear that would "shoot" you off the runway if touching in a crab. But what a dream to fly, put six gallons of gas in her(4 in tank, 2 in header) and she performed like a different acro mount. Loved to fly it. Curtis did a fine job. Curtis always said he didn't build that airplane to do wheel landings, so don't do those either.

BTW, your spring gear does not have "cuffs" on them. This will cause buffeting in the tail, more on hammers. 160mph entry speed (about) on hammer, 140mph stall, buffet. I didn't like it so on went the cuffs.

When you get to feeling she is a part of you, home free, but never ever stop flying her until the prop is stopped.

Have fun.;)


When you say cuffs do you mean the intersection fairings where the gear meets the fuselage or the strakes to settle the air going back to the tail, he should have both really but the strakes are for the buffet on the tail, according to Ray Williams anyway. The S-1s i had a spring gear put on it and it had both.
 
Buffet....

"When you say cuffs do you mean the intersection fairings where the gear meets the fuselage"

I had the problem here," intersection fairings" when removed would create the buffet. Seemed to be worst at high speed(5G pull) but I don't think it showed up on landing, at least not that I can recall. Ray is the Pitts guru on this one.
I'm going to look up the Pics on mine and see if there is a close up of the area.
Also, if you can have Ray check the Grove gear install. Mine was installed
incorrectly. More details if you need them. Have fun :).....
John
 
Other than being a real 'pilots' airplane, I can take the Pitts out for 20 minutes and REALLY feel like I did something. I could never do that in the RV's or Rocket's. Cheap and easy way to wring out your mind and learn something every time you fly. I will agree that it's not the best for traveling but it can be done, I have a pretty good size baggage area in the turtledeck. Best to have one of each IMO :rolleyes:.

That's exactly the way I feel. While my Skybolt isn't a Pitts, it is based on the Pitts S2, just 20% bigger.

Here's a little of my therapy...


http://youtu.be/G9Dh5GPonSk (Not embedding for some reason)

 
Pitts

I remember the day when I called my CFI while getting my Tail Wheel endorsement to let him know I had purchased an S2B...He said "You Did What" I finished my tail endorsement in that Pitts. Best training platform ever! one funny thing about Pitts is that everyone has a story to tell about them and most are about landings...when you ask in Reply how many hours of flight they have on a Pitts....you can hear the crickets chirping! Loved that flying Brick! miss her a lot!....she now resides Down Under and still flies under N324U . I say,,,buy it if you can afford it...


 
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